Paint and body work

[Frank Gooz]

I would like to get our 1950 Dodge Coronet painted. I live in the San Francisco bay area In California. I am amazed at the cost in this area and how long it will take.

Do you have any leads, feedback. How far from me are you?

Thanks in advance.

[NickPickToo]

Expensive in MI too and lead time can be forever.  All the shops around here focus on insurance related jobs and wont take restorations without paying a lot.  My dad and I finally just did it ourselves in the driveway.  Its not the best job, but then I have most of my life to make it better.

[kencombs]

Overall paint jobs are extremely labor intensive.  With shop rates at 50-100 buck per hour, it is really hard to keep it affordable. 

Then you discover that top of the line red metallics are several hundred per gallon, +2k primer, epoxy, clear etc.

 

5 digit jobs are not uncommon

[Frank Elder]

46 minutes ago, kencombs said:

Overall paint jobs are extremely labor intensive.  With shop rates at 50-100 buck per hour, it is really hard to keep it affordable. 

Then you discover that top of the line red metallics are several hundred per gallon, +2k primer, epoxy, clear etc.

 

5 digit jobs are not uncommon

So true.

[busycoupe]

I had mine painted at Maaco 10 yrs ago.  I couldn't afford to have it stripped down to metal so they sanded it, applied a high build sanding primer, sanded it again then applied color and clear coat.  That work plus a couple of body filler repairs cost $3000.  It has been garaged since and still looks pretty good, although it it starting to get little bumps on the surface ftom the layers underneath.  I was happy with it at the time, and am still happy with it now.  

To keep the cost down I removed all of the trim, grill, bumpers, etc that I could, then re-mounted them when I got the car back.  

[Sniper]

Well, to counter the cost my son is taking body shop in HS.  Probably cost me a fortune in tools to DIY it, but it'll be nice when done.  Who knows maybe you'll see Sniper and Son on MotorTrend TV, lol.

[Andydodge]

I bought a compressor & spray gun and basically taught myself, took a couple of goes and finally stripped the car back to bare metal using paint stripper, sanded and painted the car, the last time being 1978 in Acrylic Lacquer, 5-6 coats then 3-4 coats of clear & colour then wet sanded the lot and hand buffed & polished..........admittedly I was much younger , lol, bright eyed, bushy tailed and fit......it was after all 42yrs ago...........the paints a little crazed & crowsfooted but still has a reasonable shine..................a decent paint job here in Oz will be at least $7-8,000............upwards of $10,000 or more...........you can buy a decent amount of tools etc for that and do it yourself...........my 2 Oz cents worth..........attached pic is of my having taught myself to weld, hammer & file finish after oxy welding 2" metal into each fender to widen them to cover the rear wheels, repainted the fenders after that job.............2nd pic was taken a couple of yrs ago, still shiney...........andyd    

[plymouthcranbrook]

I sprayed several cars back in the 80's and 90's.  Taught myself mostly to do the prep work and learned to lay paint. However that was in the days of Acrylic Enamel ande I really have no idea how to do base coat clear coat.  Got good enough to the point where I did a few  for a used car lot in town and several friends cars as well. Enjoyed it then, too old now. to contort well enough to do a good job.

[keithb7]

I struggle with this bodywork and paint stuff too. It is indeed an art form. An acquired skill. Some people come by it naturally. Others, not so much. 

 

I am tempted to buy a MIG welder and start wrecking stuff. Maybe I could  find a spare parts car and cut out pieces of the body that are better than in my car now. Then weld them in. I suspect this project would become a disaster. Then there's the grinding and the filler. Then sanding all the filler off three times, and adding filler again.  It seems to be the long way to turn wet liquid filler into fine, dry dust. There must be a quicker way to make this dust. Ah yes, then there is the paint....Home in the drive way. The bugs land on it. The grass clippings stick to it. The orange peel and runs are part of the charm.

 

Here, just take my money. How much?....Actually don't tell me. Just do it. Here is a blank signed check. Paint the car. I want it to look good. Fill in the check when you are done. Take my money.

 

I'd rather lie under a car with a tranny on my chest any day. As I hoist it, lining it up its leaking 90W and drips into my ear canals. Any day...Over body work.

 

 

[JerseyHarold]

To the OP....

 

I'd ask at several used car dealers to see if they can recommend a person or shop that they use.  They usually know of someone.

 

What kind of paint job to you want to get?  Just a 'sand and spray' (sometimes called 'scuff and shoot') to freshen up the appearance or do you want to go for a full-blown bare metal respray?  What condition is the paint/body in now?  Do you need to repair dents or rust?  Lots of factors to consider.

 

If you're just looking for a basic repaint, I'd try to find a bodyman that does side-work, then send the car in to a Maaco or equivalent for the finish coat.  I've done that with several cars and was pleased with the results.  Around here, there are many cars at shows that were done by Maaco and they look very nice.  The key is in the prep, as I'm sure you know.

 

Hope this helps...

 

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by JerseyHarold

[Frank Elder]

Or go visit a Paint jobber they actually know the painters from personal interaction.......

 

[Frank Elder]

12 hours ago, plymouthcranbrook said:

I sprayed several cars back in the 80's and 90's.  Taught myself mostly to do the prep work and learned to lay paint. However that was in the days of Acrylic Enamel ande I really have no idea how to do base coat clear coat.  Got good enough to the point where I did a few  for a used car lot in town and several friends cars as well. Enjoyed it then, too old now. to contort well enough to do a good job.

You think enamel is a female dog try spraying Imron....... that stuff lasts forever and is hard as nails.......but those ISOS will put you in an early grave if you don't use the proper PP&E.

[plymouthcranbrook]

I have heard tales of the dreaded Imron paint.  The nastiest stuff I ever sprayed was POR 15 on the underside of my 52 Plymouth.  Another open all the doors and wear a HD filter mask paint.

[DJ194950]

Many paint hardeners contain isocyanate which can cause a lot of issues in the lungs but can get in body systems through eyes and shin exposures.

 

If you watch auto shows were they show their painters at work you will see the pros all wearing all kinds of body suits, fresh  air supplied masks etc. as they do this all the time, but some people can have severe reactions with just a small exposure.

 

be safe, read labels and protect yourself!  ?

 

Isocyanates | NIOSH | CDC

 

DJ

[Eneto-55]

My brother was a painter at an area Olds dealer when he & I were working on our cars (his: 49 DeSoto, and then my 46 Plymouth).  So he did the complicated stuff like spraying the Imron on the front inner fender wells.  Nastiest stuff I ever painted was the zinc chromate I painted the frame with.  Last time I used that stuff was in Brazil, rebuilding the mower bed on the Yanmar micro-tractor I used to mow the airstrip in the Indian village, but that time I just used a brush.

[Frank Elder]

When I laid down imron on TA-4J trainer jets in the Navy all they gave us were overalls and a charcoal canister respirator, lots of guys rolled up their sleeves and wore NO gloves. ISOS are also absorbed through the skin.

I partially blame that for my breathing problems but still feel lucky to not have cancer with all the asbestos the Navy used.

[allbizz49]

As a painter, I have to ask what your budget is. Good paint isn't cheap and cheap paint isn't good. I'm averaging about 4k just in materials on completes. Not just paint but all of the consumables that are involved. I don't live too far from you but I don't do cheap paint jobs. I don't believe in dropping quality to drop the price. There are plenty of shops, at least around here, that will do nice driver quality paint jobs for 6-10k depending on bodywork involved. 

[Vin's 49 Plymouth]

I just got through with this on my P15C, you can see it in my profile albums. 

I did some searching for a year here in Washington, and not many shops would do it. When I did find someone it was over 15K, even if I did the body work and primer. They don't trust your work, so they don't take any off the price.

I finally went to Macco and got their best at 6K not including the 1K I spent on a gallon of my custom color. It was a horrible paint job, but it was painted. The bad part is that they used black base coat instead of white for my yellow. (changed the color)It made it a shade darker.

Not many runs, but there is some filler sag and the jams are not cut and buffed. So I will take it back after I get it drivable this spring.

[Los_Control]

I do not think I am a snob, I think if you have someone that will paint it for you, good for you.

I also think that a 70 year old car you will find less & less people willing to work on it.

At this age, it is a matter of love we are forced to learn and do the work ourselves. Or pay big bucks to have a restorer paint them for us.

 

I am a noob when it comes to paint, same time I think I can learn and do something satisfactory.

I have for the last year ask the most ignorant questions on this forum about paint. I am no specialist.

Today I am maybe 1/2 way through my paint and have no questions to ask ... just work to get it done.

 

I guess you need to ask yourself what is the limits of your acceptance of paint. Remember the model T fords used a paint brush on assembly line.

Can you use a $15 hplv spray gun from harbor freight and do better then a paint brush job?

Can you do some of the basic metal replacement needed for these old cars?

Like it or not, basic rust removal and metal welding, painting is part of these old cars ... same with tune up and brakes.

You can do the paint yourself, just need to ask for some advice as you go ... or pay big bucks for someone qualified to do it for you.

 

[Loren]

Just think when my 52 was new Earl Scheib would paint any car for $19.95!

Of course our house payment was $24 and my Dad's hourly pay was $1.19.

You could buy a nice new car for $1,500 too.

Later on the price was $29.95 but only for certain colors and none of them were attractive. The good colors were $49.95.

Now days the average price of a new car is around $35,000.

I find it a hard sell to pay more than four times the original cost of a car just for paint!

Better to pay up for a really nice car than get a "fair price" on one needing paint and chrome.

Just my humble opinion, patina be damned.

[Sam Buchanan]

8 hours ago, Loren said:

 

Better to pay up for a really nice car than get a "fair price" on one needing paint and chrome.

Just my humble opinion, patina be damned.

 

That is the path I took on the last two cars I "rescued". I'm sure that some folks would think I paid too much for my P-15, but its 30+ year old paint and interior saved me several times the purchase price over what it would have taken to bring a "project" up to the same level. Just paint and interior can easily run $25K, much more than our cars are worth on the market, and that doesn't include whatever mechanical work is needed.

 

Here is how my P-15 looked when I bought it.....I feel very fortunate. 

 

[plymouthcranbrook]

The last car I had painted was my 1983 Chevy G 30 van from Earl Scheib(wouldn't fit in my garage) and I did the prep. Resale Red, $250.00. In about 1990 pr so.

[sidevalvepete]

On 12/7/2020 at 2:14 PM, allbizz49 said:

As a painter, I have to ask what your budget is. Good paint isn't cheap and cheap paint isn't good. I'm averaging about 4k just in materials on completes. Not just paint but all of the consumables that are involved. I don't live too far from you but I don't do cheap paint jobs. I don't believe in dropping quality to drop the price. There are plenty of shops, at least around here, that will do nice driver quality paint jobs for 6-10k depending on bodywork involved. 

I know a few paint and panel guys around town where I live. They all work pretty hard and in an environment that won't be conducive to long life. None of them show any indication of great wealth either. I admire their work but don't envy their work conditions. Am happier working long hours on the land in the open air. The project I started on properly 14 years ago has taken a basket case rust heap to a nearly finished, nothing missed rebuild. Wouldn't have done it with any other vehicle but it was bought new by my grandfather and has become my hobby/sport/leisure/interest/obsession.......whatever you want to call it. Done some things myself but largely had the serious panel work and paint done at my local garage with some quality people in the team. There are over 50 separate pieces of panel or body parts that end up being separately painted - not just a body, four doors, a boot, hood and guards. So have been happy to pay for the work done and to show some appreciation for the quality of work done. The pleasure it has given me still outways the monetary cost.

 

Having said that, I have the utmost admiration for those of you that have done your project cars differently, either by yourselves or with unpaid or paid help. You are an inspiration to anyone who has the old car bug. Anything can be achieved. Especially young NickPickToo and not so young PaulFlaming and those that have advised them. 

[DJ194950]

Doing a top of line repairs/body/paints and materials have gone so far up since I started doing these things 45 years ago (even accounting for inflation) is astronomically higher. Way more so in the past 10 years or so!! 

 

Lots of reasons  for this quality and long lasting are also way up-But??

 

Always had to do it myself as I never could afford pros but had studied body and paint at our local J.C. back after H.S.  Always did some even part time trough the years for myself and friends. The day to days stress on the body and dusts of full time body work was more than I was willing to pursue.

 

Back 40 years ago I painted a car with black paint then covered that  with real pearl in the clear coats then more clear coats. -- The clear coat at the time from one of the top manufacturers had a nick name-- Clear Crack! which it did in a year or two if left in the sun. Was not cheap either!

 

DJ

 

[MarcDeSoto]

I got into this hobby around 1978, so I took auto mechanics and auto body and paint classes at San Diego City College.  I prepped a couple of cars and sprayed primer on them, but since there were better painters in class, I always had one of them do the final spray.  I did rent a booth from a painter once and sprayed my own car.  There were a few runs, but an acceptable job on a daily driver 73 Dodge Dart sedan.  But I have to say that paint job still cost more than the car.  The 73 Dodge was free!  Now they are going for good money.  I did paint a few parts of my 48 DeSoto back then, about 40 years ago in acrylic enamel with a hardener.  I sprayed them outside in my driveway and they came out nice.  I painted the wheels, the cowl, and the hood with a conventional spray gun and a 40 gal. air compressor.  Now, you can buy HVLP spray equipment cheaply and save thousands over having a pro do it.  It's not for everybody, but I think I can do it.  You can get supplied air mask and put a old air compressor outside the door so you breath fresh air while you are spraying.  Be sure to cover all of your skin and cover your eye with goggles.  Also I'm thinking of having open doors and strong fans blowing the fumes away.  Here's a super cheap HVLP spray kit sold by HF.  I bought one, but I have better equipment now also.  It shows that you can at least spray things like fenders and smaller parts cheaply.