New "old" Motor Analyzer...useful?

[Bob Riding]

I bought this from my cousin, who is closing up his shop, Ball Tire, in Fresno after 50 years. They were one of the few shops around this area that serviced new and old iron. He had to liquidate everything inside the business, as Bridgestone Company owns the building, land etc. Most all of the employees, including the Manager, found other local jobs, which is great.  I ended up buying a metal workbench, some metal storage cabinets, bench grinder, tire pry tools, vintage rubbish cans, an old metal "oily rag" can and this 70's era "Atlas Motor Analyzer. I brought it home, plugged in in and everything seems to work!  The four lighted windows are Amps-Dwell, RPM, Vacuum, and Volt-Ohm. There are also 8 "Cylinder Selection" buttons, 6 "Ignition Selector" settings, "Volt-Ohms Calibrate" button, and for safety, an "Engine Kill" switch. All the connections, including what looks like a timing-light gun are there. Also it has a video screen which can be used to compare cylinders. I've never used this kind of analyzer before...I have a copy of the owner's manual, so I will be able to dig into the details, but I was curious as to member's experience with these vintage machines.

Edited November 26, 2020 by Bob Riding

[Loren]

Some mechanics got really good at spotting problems with these.

I personally paid to go to the Allen school for their machines. Basically they work the same.

What put them out to pasture was electronic ignition and fuel injection. There simply were too many different types and connections.

When the government standardized things with OBD ll there was no need at all for these big things. A professional OBD ll scanner can fit in a shoe box or a toolbox drawer.

That said, when working on 1970s (even some 1980s) and earlier cars these still can do a valuable job.

For a shop they simply take up space. A dealership I worked at in the early 1980s kept one just for show. I am not even sure it worked.

The oscilloscope can help you diagnose Alternator issues by visually showing the pattern.

The cylinder interrupt feature allows you isolate which cylinder is giving you trouble and on a running engine tell you which one is weak.

Old shop equipment is real handy for old cars...if you keep yourself sharp at using it. Otherwise you'll spend a lot of time figuring out how to use the equipment rather than fixing the car.

If you're a tool collector you've got a gem!

If it sits and is never used you've got a dust collector.

I have an Allen I've never used because one of the important gauges is broken and I've never gotten around to fixing it.

I also have a Syncrograph which is very handy for setting up distributors.

Being a dedicated hoarder I don't let go of stuff...

[Sniper]

When I took auto shop in high school we had a fancy Sun Engine Analyzer similar to what you posted, cost $10k back in 79 according to the shop teacher.  Used it many times.  It would do many things but alas I have forgotten how to run one, that was 1979 after all.  But I would love to have one again.

[keithb7]

Oops. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by keithb7

[oldodge41]

Looks like a winning score to me. Automotive history right there. I would be proud to own it, even if I never used it. Congratulations!

[Tooljunkie]

I want one, but shop is way too small for it. Very handy. 
think i would prefer a distributor machine over a behemoth engine analyser. 

[Los_Control]

I love it. As others suggest really not needed, but very cool if you have the room for it.

They were the cats meow when our old cars were not so old. I would give it a good cleaning, tune up. Make sure all wires, hoses, connections in good shape.

A nice bath and a wax job, I would be proud to use it 

 

I had purchased a old sun machine years ago, I was really after the coats 40/40 tire machine and bubble ballancer, the sun engine analyzer was part of the package.

I played with it, was cool but really outdated 30 years ago and when someone showed interest I sold it.

Today I might not be so quick to sell it.

[Dodgeb4ya]

I used to that same machine at the Enco gas station I worked at in 1972.

It was the latest and greatest machine back then.

I sure needed the operators manual to figure out how to fully use it.

[Plymouthy Adams]

5 hours ago, Sniper said:

When I took auto shop in high school we had a fancy Sun Engine Analyzer similar to what you posted, cost $10k back in 79 according to the shop teacher.  Used it many times.  It would do many things but alas I have forgotten how to run one, that was 1979 after all.  But I would love to have one again.

My Sun is a 1979 model.....they are few and far between these days...

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Plymouthy Adams

[Jim Saraceno]

I have an old Heathkit Engine Analyzer http://www.glowbug.nl/scope/IO20.html.

I seldom use it but it sure comes in handy when I'm trying to iron out problems of the engine running rough.?

[keithb7]

I am interested in learning what unique trouble shooting tools this analyzer offers.  Looking at the hook-up diagram I don't see how it can cancel individual cylinders.

Maybe there are 6 or 8 lead wires to monitor secondary ignition voltages to each plug? I suspect there is more to it than shown in the limited illustrarions above.

 

My current stash of tools, will they accomplish similar end-results?

Dwell meter and RPM tach.

Digital multimeter with clamp for up to 600V DC amp readings

Timing light

Feeler gauges

compression tester gauge

oil pressure gauge

fuel pressure gauge

vacuum gauge

spark plug gap gauge

I can pull a spark plug wire and re-install while monitoring the tach to try and locate a dead cylinder

 

I have no idea what cool stuff this analyzer can do. Please excuse my ignorance.  All my tools above fit in 1 drawer in my rolling tool cabinet. 

 

In High School back in the mid-80's I took shop class. We were intimidated by the mighty analyzer, just like the one above. It was a beast. I assumed it was for real grease monkeys who had way more experience than I did! 35 or so years later, here I am finally addressing and discussing it. LOL. 

 

I do remember one cool thing it seemed to do. I was 16. In grade 10. My brother 18 in grade 12. We worked together and rebuilt the 225 slant 6 engine in my '76 Dodge Dart. At home in the back yard. No shop. When we had it up and running, I was happy with it. My brother took my car into this Grade 12 shop class. Hooked it up to the mighty analyzer.  I envisioned it would spit out a pass or fail on our backyard rebuild.  Bro found that the spark plugs were acting weird. I had installed them. re-used the old ones. I was broke trying to pay for the engine rebuild parts and machining. I had no idea that I had to gap the plugs. Some had no gap. Some had a massive gap. The analyzer monitor screen showed the problem some how. So I know it does that!

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by keithb7

[Loren]

Interrupting a cylinder is easy. The scope counts the ignition impulses.

I had a portable Snap-On meter that would do it. When you pushed a button it shorted the cylinder you selected.

You had to know the firing order then correspond it to the 1,2,3...dial.

[T120]

While not a necessary piece of equipment to do a tune up,I suppose it would save time back in the day...This is one I have in my garage Sun 920...As it says "We Test...Not Guess" ?

[Dave72dt]

Most of the diagnostics could be done with handhelds but that 'scope could show you things the handhelds  couldn't.  great when you had a real "problem child".

[knuckleharley]

7 hours ago, Sniper said:

When I took auto shop in high school we had a fancy Sun Engine Analyzer similar to what you posted, cost $10k back in 79 according to the shop teacher.  Used it many times.  It would do many things but alas I have forgotten how to run one, that was 1979 after all.  But I would love to have one again.

I have a Sun engine analyzer with a "rolladex" index you spin down or up to pick the car or truck you are working on,and it gives you all the specs. Even has an exhaust analyzer you still up the tail pipe to better adjust the carb and timig.Also have the matching distributor machine.

 

I THINK I may have a Sun machine you check starters with too,but can't remember for sure. All that stuff just got covered up when I started getting sick and having other problems maybe 10 years ago.

 

Knew it was obsolete when I bought it all,and didn't care. I figured it would be a lot of fun to play with.

 

BTW,my Sun analyzer is a LOT older that yours. Has stuff like 46 Kaiser's on the rolodex.

Edited November 27, 2020 by knuckleharley

[Sniper]

Here are two pdfs, one older than the other, that detail the kinds of things you can see with a scope.

 

Older one covers points

 

https://lunardiagnostics.weebly.com/uploads/1/0/4/4/10449663/eti_feb77_scopetheignition_1b__1_.pdf

 

Newer one, no points info to speak of, but nicer pictures.

 

https://www.motor.com/magazinepdfs/052001_04.pdf

Edited November 27, 2020 by Sniper

[Frank Elder]

You lucky dog!.........Learned how to use a similar one in shop class, no obd 2 but sure helped on my 67 Belvedere II GTX.

[James_Douglas]

I have a Sun Machine and Sun Distributor Machine. I find I use the Distributor Machine a lot, the big tester not much. I only have one base for the large machine.

 

I am trying to shed stuff I do not use. I have been thinking of selling the big machine, but keeping the base for the distributor machine and keeping all the other hand held and tune up stuff in the base. That would open some tool box space.

 

I would also put my brake shoe Arc Machine on the top.

 

James.

Edited November 27, 2020 by James_Douglas

[Bob Riding]

15 hours ago, knuckleharley said:

I have a Sun engine analyzer with a "rolladex" index you spin down or up to pick the car or truck you are working on,and it gives you all the specs. Even has an exhaust analyzer you still up the tail pipe to better adjust the carb and timig.Also have the matching distributor machine.

 

I THINK I may have a Sun machine you check starters with too,but can't remember for sure. All that stuff just got covered up when I started getting sick and having other problems maybe 10 years ago.

 

Knew it was obsolete when I bought it all,and didn't care. I figured it would be a lot of fun to play with.

 

BTW,my Sun analyzer is a LOT older that yours. Has stuff like 46 Kaiser's on the rolodex.

This Atlas machine, (which looks EXACTLY like a SUN machine)I'd guess is mid to late 70's vintage. There are no tubes, just solid state circuits. Someone on a HAMB thread was complaining that if those boards took a dump, they would be practically impossible to replace. Anyone know the switchover to solid state circuitry? Transistor radios have been around a long time...

[Bob Riding]

16 hours ago, keithb7 said:

I am interested in learning what unique trouble shooting tools this analyzer offers.  Looking at the hook-up diagram I don't see how it can cancel individual cylinders.

Maybe there are 6 or 8 lead wires to monitor secondary ignition voltages to each plug? I suspect there is more to it than shown in the limited illustrarions above.

 

My current stash of tools, will they accomplish similar end-results?

Dwell meter and RPM tach.

Digital multimeter with clamp for up to 600V DC amp readings

Timing light

Feeler gauges

compression tester gauge

oil pressure gauge

fuel pressure gauge

vacuum gauge

spark plug gap gauge

I can pull a spark plug wire and re-install while monitoring the tach to try and locate a dead cylinder

 

I have no idea what cool stuff this analyzer can do. Please excuse my ignorance.  All my tools above fit in 1 drawer in my rolling tool cabinet. 

 

In High School back in the mid-80's I took shop class. We were intimidated by the mighty analyzer, just like the one above. It was a beast. I assumed it was for real grease monkeys who had way more experience than I did! 35 or so years later, here I am finally addressing and discussing it. LOL. 

 

I do remember one cool thing it seemed to do. I was 16. In grade 10. My brother 18 in grade 12. We worked together and rebuilt the 225 slant 6 engine in my '76 Dodge Dart. At home in the back yard. No shop. When we had it up and running, I was happy with it. My brother took my car into this Grade 12 shop class. Hooked it up to the mighty analyzer.  I envisioned it would spit out a pass or fail on our backyard rebuild.  Bro found that the spark plugs were acting weird. I had installed them. re-used the old ones. I was broke trying to pay for the engine rebuild parts and machining. I had no idea that I had to gap the plugs. Some had no gap. Some had a massive gap. The analyzer monitor screen showed the problem some how. So I know it does that!

 

Before the shop closed, I copied the paperwork from (as far as I could tell) a similar but newer SUN machine that the owner had. I scanned the "Quick Reference " guide, "Owner's Manual" and the blank "Test Report" form that you would use to record your findings. I've attached the "Test Report " form, but the others are too large to post here. PM me and I'd be happy to email you a copy. 

Atlas Test Report Form

[greg g]

Had one of those in the gas station 

I worked in in high school.  The station was owned by the Dodge dealer across the street, we got all the oil changes, tire work, exhaust work and tune ups on all cars three years old or older.  We also checked out trade in vehicles for problems that needed addressing.  Every trade in that was staying on the lot got the analyser evaluation.  Our machine got used on a daily basis.  I remember Sam pitching a fit when a 6v positive car showed up cuz there were hook up differences that he never remembered to do before running the tests.

Edited November 27, 2020 by greg g

[greg g]

I got to put in the parts while he got to fiddle with the dials and buttons.   Always gave me a load of crap if the dwell needed more than a couple degrees of adjustment especially on slant sixes which he had a deep seated hate for. Sam was a Pontiac man.

[Bob Riding]

On 11/26/2020 at 9:05 AM, Loren said:

Some mechanics got really good at spotting problems with these.

I personally paid to go to the Allen school for their machines. Basically they work the same.

What put them out to pasture was electronic ignition and fuel injection. There simply were too many different types and connections.

When the government standardized things with OBD ll there was no need at all for these big things. A professional OBD ll scanner can fit in a shoe box or a toolbox drawer.

That said, when working on 1970s (even some 1980s) and earlier cars these still can do a valuable job.

For a shop they simply take up space. A dealership I worked at in the early 1980s kept one just for show. I am not even sure it worked.

The oscilloscope can help you diagnose Alternator issues by visually showing the pattern.

The cylinder interrupt feature allows you isolate which cylinder is giving you trouble and on a running engine tell you which one is weak.

Old shop equipment is real handy for old cars...if you keep yourself sharp at using it. Otherwise you'll spend a lot of time figuring out how to use the equipment rather than fixing the car.

If you're a tool collector you've got a gem!

If it sits and is never used you've got a dust collector.

I have an Allen I've never used because one of the important gauges is broken and I've never gotten around to fixing it.

I also have a Syncrograph which is very handy for setting up distributors.

Being a dedicated hoarder I don't let go of stuff...

That's my problem too (hoarding) and so I've heard from others...don't throw anything "important" away because as soon as you do, you will need it! Makes for a somewhat cluttered existence if you don't have a good system for finding stuff. As for whether i will be able to use it, - if I don't or it breaks, I'll follow the owner's manual suggestion to turn on the lights of the head sign and gauges "for display purposes"