Quality in workmanship

[OUTFXD]

Doing some wiring and hunting for bugs.. I found a few issues.

 

The terminal block for the headlights/marker lights.  all four mounting tabs where broke off, the Connectors where kinds of.. crowded in,  the  connectors where corroded, and all the screws on the hot side where seized.  sadly  I didnt think to take photos till after I had started cleanup so the terminal has been sprayed down with wd40

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by OUTFXD

[OUTFXD]

The ground wire on the coil had about a 1/4 inch of wire sticking beyond the insulation sorry for the out of focus shots. my  phone had a hard time focusing on the wires.

Edited May 10, 2023 by OUTFXD

[OUTFXD]

I am pretty sure the wire was grounding against the wire collector tube causing intermittent grounding from engine vibration, and the engine to run rough.

[OUTFXD]

The hot side wire of the coil was much the same.

[OUTFXD]

New connectors.  Shrink wrapped to prevent corrosion and installed to prevent short circuits.

[Sniper]

I am not a fan of those connectors.

 

I prefer uninsulated terminals, crimped and soldered on with heat shrink insulation.  Every one in my 51 has been done like that when I rewired it.

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

hard to find uninsulated connectors...I buy the three common sizes red, blue and yellow and when using them, I pull the insulation off and solder 95% of the time...when I do crimp I use a high end lugging tool, not to be confused with that flat distortion tool in the kits, but a quality Klein or Stake-On brand, I also heat shrink...makes for a very solid connection and cleaner look but then that is just my opinion but the factories never used insulated lugs. 

[Sniper]

I have a bunch of uninsuated terminals I've had for decades, I don't even remember where I got them.  Probably "surplus" mil spec stuff, lol.

 

You can order them online easy enough.  US made too

 

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/terminals/insulation~noninsulated/

[Plymouthy Adams]

when I worked DoD Navy, Shop 67 electronics, our crimpers were calibrated and inspected on a rotating bases.  If you had a pair checked out, you get a notice to surrender for inspection a few days before their cal date was due...they took wire crimping seriously...

[OUTFXD]

I got a new "ratcheting" crimper.  Apparently its for the insulated type connectors. I had to use the red slot to get it to crimp decently.

 

Sadly my soldering skills are pretty non existent.

[PT81PlymouthPickup]

I'm wondering if electrical connections on our vehicles were soldered originally?  Seems to me on my original harness they were not? Like Sniper, I soldered all mine and then shrink tubed. It was a bit tricky not to have the solder wick up the wire, which might make it rigid and more susceptible to breaking from vibration?  Any thoughts on this?  Oh yeah! Be careful to not use any acid flux.  Ask me how I know.  Lols!  As always, "the devil is in the details"

[rallyace]

I have found that there are two grades of connectors. The ones you get at the hardware store or auto parts supplier are not the same quality you get from an electrical supply house or industrial supplier. Over the years I did a fair amount of industrial control work and amassed a large supply of connectors. Alas, since I retired and spent more time on cars, my supply is dwindling.

[Sniper]

8 hours ago, PT81PlymouthPickup said:

It was a bit tricky not to have the solder wick up the wire, which might make it rigid and more susceptible to breaking from vibration?

 

I don't know where this comes from but I hear it a lot.  It is no more susceptible to breaking that those crimp connection and it you use the proper amount of heat shrink as a strain relief it is less susceptible,

 

If you want to prevent solder from wicking up the wire clamp a heat sink on the wire.  You can buy a small hemostat from Harbor Freight to clamp on the bare wire just past the solder joint, that will prevent wicking of the solder up the wire, or just don't use that much solder. 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Sniper

[Young Ed]

I'm planning to grab one of these for my next wiring project. Cheaper on rock auto fyi

 

Dorman 94095 Uninsulated Connectors Builders Series Assortment https://a.co/d/e6sbfUJ

 

 

[keithb7]

Speaking of quality workmanship. I’m currently tackling this. I always thought tube benders were cheap.  Apparently the person who built this brake line is cheaper.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by keithb7

[Dan Hiebert]

The bugbear of working on cars after a PO didn't have any attention to detail and/or took shortcuts.  Those terminal blocks ahead of the radiator are essentially out in the weather, they are on my annual service checklist to look for corrosion.

[Booger]

10 hours ago, keithb7 said:

Speaking of quality workmanship. I’m currently tackling this. I always thought tube benders were cheap.  Apparently the person who built this brake line is cheaper.

 

 

 

 

Ouch!

[Plymouthy Adams]

Sadly many look at that as out of sight out of mind and just cobble it and get down the road....it only take a few more minutes to make it look like you actually cared about what you were doing.  This is just a tip of the corner cutting you see all too often.   If this was done while along the road and limping home, whole other ball of wax....!

[Rodney_Hamon]

Just wanted to add to the quality conversation.  Agreed on the cheaper terminals you could find vs the quality ones. I have my lifetime and then another with my supply of Whitaker and Beldin wire terminals and stuff. Most of my inventory is over 40 + years old and still in excellent shape. My dad was a factory rep for chanslor & Lyon parts distribution and then beldon and finally Whitaker. All gone now. My dad taught me how to crimp correctly so I don’t solder but I’m not against that technique.  And yes, ouch to that crimp in the tubing. The Red/Green show antics are not tolerated here at all. Lol 

[Los_Control]

With the reading/research I have done preparing to wire my truck. The schooling others have given me .... Thanks @Sam Buchanan 

I'm going with non insulated crimp connectors then heat shrink ..... your repair looks fine. They are a better quality connector.

& you have a good ratchet crimp tool.

 

My thoughts are we can visually inspect our crimp, tug & twist .... then cover with heat shrink.

Not so much when using insulated connectors.

 

A man on another forum with a lot of automotive wiring experience wrote a wiring 101 howto ..... He has been doing wiring for 50 years.

He does non insulated, solder, heat shrink .... Just like @sniper ....

Me being a carpenter that knows nothing about automotive wiring take a lot of stock in these opinions.

iirc, sniper was trained in the Navy on electronics & works with electronics today .... lifetime of experience ..... this is good advice.

 

Now on the other hand, @Sam Buchanan is very knowledgeable in electronics .... I have no idea of their background ..... I believe he is a pilot.

He said one thing to me that I will not forget.

If solder is the best way, then why does the Aviation industry crimp when building military jets?     ..... No expense spared.

 

@OUTFXD I think what I'm trying to say is, asking crimp or solder? ..... just about equal to what kind of oil to use? Either way is good.

Everyone will have a opinion. ..... your way is fine.

 

[kencombs]

51 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

 

Now on the other hand, @Sam Buchanan is very knowledgeable in electronics .... I have no idea of their background ..... I believe he is a pilot.

He said one thing to me that I will not forget.

If solder is the best way, then why does the Aviation industry crimp when building military jets?     ..... No expense spared.

 

 

Not only the military,  every passenger airplane has crimped terminals unless someone did an unapproved repair.    And the reason(s) are pretty simple.

1.  Every A&P mechanic can do a crimp install, even in limited access areas, when using an approved tool and process.

2. That is not true of the solder process, not every person is proficient so the results are not consistent. Cold joints or melted insulation result.

As to the vibration component, it's not an issue if properly done but if overheated and/or too much solder is applied it can wick up the wire and cause issues.  If allowed to do that the wire becomes stiff and can break if bent as the little conductors are no one big one.  Usually not vibration but ham handed mechanic forcing it to bend.  I've never seen that on aircraft but certainly have on cars.

3. Crimps have proven to reliable.  

I spent 37 years with an airline, not as a mechanic, but the first 8 or so working along side flight line mechanics.  Then watching and learning every day while I played with computers and code.

For a while I worked with Collins Radio computers.  The same company famous for aeroinautical communications.   All the wiring, backplanes etc were crimped. 

 

[Los_Control]

Just now, kencombs said:

1.  Every A&P mechanic can do a crimp install, even in limited access areas, when using an approved tool and process.

2. That is not true of the solder process, not every person is proficient so the results are not consistent. Cold joints or melted insulation result.

As to the vibration component, it's not an issue if properly done but if overheated and/or too much solder is applied it can wick up the wire and cause issues.  If allowed to do that the wire becomes stiff and can break if bent as the little conductors are no one big one.  Usually not vibration but ham handed mechanic forcing it to bend.  I've never seen that on aircraft but certainly have on cars.

3. Crimps have proven to reliable.  

Very good explanation there.

 

When I solder wires, I tin them first then connect the two ends to extend a wire. This does wick. ..... I'm not a great solderer. .... But mid stream in my wire harness I may have a few of these soldered extensions.

 

Same time I feel comfortable with a good crimp on a connector.

When I wire my truck, I will use both methods .... use common sense to decide how each connection should be made ..... it is not written in stone how it should be done.

 

A few years ago having starter issues on my SBC 350.

Probably a bad solenoid .... let it cool down & would start normal .... possible a bad battery cable .... The trigger wire going to the solenoid was toasty near the exhaust.

I just replaced all 3.

I soldered the trigger wire extension above the engine, then crimped the connector going to the solenoid. ...... I can go both ways  ???

Another thing I added was multiple layers of heat shrink to get the wire past the exhaust heat.

[Sniper]

I was an electronics technician in the Navy, surface not aviation.  We were taught how to solder.  We were taught that the crimp is for the mechanical connection, the solder for the electrical connection.  Mind you this was for applications that could literally cost you your life if it failed.

 

Is it overkill for our cars?  Most likely, but as I was doing it I thought to myself "I will never have an electrical connection issue and neither will my son, or his when he has one" lol.

 

Part of the reasoning as well was the electrical hackery the PO's mechanic did to that car.

 

It has a hot rod wiring harness in it, for a 12v car,  It was still 6v,  All the bulb sockets had the new harness butt spliced to the original and failing wires coming out of the socket.  As well as other hackery I mercifully cannot remember right now which will wake me up in the middle of the night tonight, thank you very much.

 

I redid every bit of electrical wiring on that car. 

 

 

[kencombs]

1 hour ago, Sniper said:

  Mind you this was for applications that could literally cost you your life if it failed.

 

 

See above discussion about aviation.  Same results.   No question,  soldering done by a trained individual is excellent, if overkill.  But, prefer crimps for the average Joe, or Jolenes work.  Sorta like wire run lacing, not strictly needed but looks great when done well.

[Sniper]

Soldering wire isn't a hard skill to acquire. 

 

Back when I had eyes and a steady hand I used to solder stuff that took a microscope to do it right,

 

Maybe this weekend I'll do a video?