Can't get front brake shoes to go in so drum will fit on 48 DeSoto.

[Kilgore47]

21 hours ago, harmony said:

What grit sandpaper did you find to be the most useful?  I'd also recommend running squiggly pencil marks all over the lining so you can see the high and low spots, if you use this method.

I used 80 grit sand paper.  You are correct harmony that the setting will change when you tighten the nut.  When I find the correct setting I then back the adjuster off a little to compensate for it's movement when the nut is tightened.  May take a few tries but you learn how much to back the adjuster off.  I know that my methods are a little shade tree at times but it works.  And it's something that can be done on the side of the road to get you back home.

[andyd]

Marc........the brakes shoes lining is TOO THICK....all the specs I have seen says that they should be 3/16th NOT 1/4........as you have said these shoes were sitting on the shelf and have not been on the car........I assume you have compared these shoes to the ones that were on the car?.........they are the same size, ie, diameter/curvature?.........so the only answer is that there is TOO MUCH lining..........contact a brake specialist or a place like Kanter, Bernbaums etc & ask them if they were to reline your old brake shoes what thickness of lining would they attach?.........to your old brake shoes that do fit...........to me sanding with some sandpaper, bench grinder or whatever is just asking for trouble unless each shoe is set in a fixture that can accurately measure how much lining is removed........OH......and what are these linings made of?.........I hope they are not asbestos..........great stuff until you turn it into a fine dust.....like sanding...........my Oz 2 cents worth.....andyd  

[Dodgeb4ya]

I have had to arc/grind many sets of linings that were too thick with std. non turned drums and also with short push rods.

Also different depth pistons.."China problem" too shallow can add to this issue.

This has all been hashed out on here in years passed.

Like has been mentioned make sure the  lining thickness is as per the shop manual.

Use the shorter push rods when necessary.

 

[MarcDeSoto]

Here's what i  think I remember.  I think that some time back in the 80s I took my worn shoes to an old brake shop to have the shoes relined.  The shoes I got back fit the arc of the drums exactly, so either they arced the shoes to the drums, or my drums have never been turned and the stock shoes just fit.  The only problem I have is the linings are too thick.  Maybe the linings were made for drums that had been turned .030".  I think all I have to do is shave off about 1/32" or so.  I bought a belt sander and plan to shave them outside wearing a painter's mask and gloves and goggles, and blowing all the dust away in case it's asbestos.  Is that a bad plan?  

[Go Fleiter]

You must be sure to get an exactly concentric surface finish

So You will need a gage or a rotating guide with the correct radius!

[Sniper]

Just save yourself the aggravation.  If you cannot find a shop to do the grinding, properly, then use the sandpaper stuck to the inside of the drum method.  It will arc your shoes properly, it will maintain concentricity and it will do the job.

 

It won't be fast, but it will be done properly.  A belt sander will only be a good way to go bad fast.  Wear a GOOD N95 mask.  Maybe even rig up a shop vac with a HEPA filter to catch the particles.

[Sam Buchanan]

Is it possible to buy a new set of shoes with the proper lining?

 

Backyard shoe sanding will likely result in an inconsistent surface with only portions of the shoe contacting the drums.....really doubt this will end up with satisfactory brake performance. We are talking about clearances less than 0.006".

Edited February 24, 2022 by Sam Buchanan

[kencombs]

Maybe, just maybe a local parts store can help.  My Oriellys has a 'repair and return' service.  they send my old parts to their supplier of rebuilt stuff for r&r.   Reasonably priced too.  I had them do a Japanese tractor water pump for 1/10th the cost of the dealers solution.

 

I've also had them do brake shoes that are not part of their inventory.  The rebuilder still has the equipment and parts, but due to low volume they don't catalog it.

 

Probably a local or regional thing but, Can't hurt to ask. 

 

BTW, I am all for saving money, cheap even, and do almost anything myself but would draw the line at freehand sanding brake shoes.  It just seems nearly impossible to keep the lining parallel to the drum surface in both planes.

 

This coming from a guy that 'machined' his intake carb flange down almost 1/4" with his 12" disk sander.

[desoto1939]

I just checked bernbaum and they have the 46 Desotobrakes shoes with the bonded lining and a set of 4 shoes is $85.

 

For allof the agravation of trying to turn down the shoes and the cost and the possibility of messing up the shoes then the cost of $85 is a whole lot cheaper. And if these do not fit than Bernabum will take them back.

 

If you can find a person that can grind down the lining or arc them to the proper thickness which is 3/16 according to my Thermord, EIS and Wagner brake catalogs that cover the desoto from 1938-50 then that would be the first option. But trying to grind down evenly the entire lining by the amount that you need is not safe and you will get an uneven braking surface.

 

I know it hurts to have to spend money the second time but the cost of the brakes are worth your life and also a helath issue if you breath in any of the old brake dust.

 

I think we all have figured out the issue. Now it is upto Marc to determine the directin that he wants to go to solve the issue.

 

Either get them arced or buy new correct linings.

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com 

[kencombs]

If I thought there was a chance that I would ever have need, I would do a buy on these right now!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324213684102?hash=item4b7ca43786:g:3Z8AAOSwsFZe-gdu

Rivets and setting tools are cheap.

Edited February 24, 2022 by kencombs

[MarcDeSoto]

Only problem with those linings is the box looks old and they could be asbestos.  Also I don't know how to rivet.  I think you guys have convinced me to back off this plan and try to find someone to arc them to spec.  Thanks for all of your input.  Marc.

[MarcDeSoto]

I'm going to send my shoes to be arced.  I need to send them the accurate size of the ID of the drums.  How do I do that?  Most micrometers are only 6 inches long.  

[DJ194950]

Even brand new brake lining are allowed to have some asbestos in them per some posts here in the recent past.

 

How much? Less than before?  I do not know myself.  As you love the internet for answers maybe a search to see what is up per the government people who make the rules is in order.  Myself,  I do not sweat the small stuff these days and wear a good mask, but that is just me.

 

Asbestos is not strictly forbidden it seems. Surprised me at the time.

 

DJ

[Sam Buchanan]

28 minutes ago, MarcDeSoto said:

I'm going to send my shoes to be arced.  I need to send them the accurate size of the ID of the drums.  How do I do that?  Most micrometers are only 6 inches long.  

12” vernier calipers are available, I just looked at some on Amazon.

[FarmerJon]

I have heard from several old timers that the older compound brake lining was softer and stopped better than the modern linings. 

While I can see how this would be possible, given the (possible) shift away from asbestos and heavy metals, I also wonder if that only applies to cheaper 'parts store' shoes, and if superior modern lining material can be had.

[MarcDeSoto]

I got a tip from James D. today about an old brake shop in Long Beach that could arc my shoes to the drums.  He didn't know if it was still in business so called them and they are!  I'm taking my drums and shoes in tomorrow to be arced while i wait.  Wow, didn't think a shop like this still existed.  here's their website for CH Topping & Co.  

 

http://www.chtopping.com/Home/index.html

[Dodgeb4ya]

3 hours ago, FarmerJon said:

I have heard from several old timers that the older compound brake lining was softer and stopped better than the modern linings. 

While I can see how this would be possible, given the (possible) shift away from asbestos and heavy metals, I also wonder if that only applies to cheaper 'parts store' shoes, and if superior modern lining material can be had.

The old softer organic asbestos shoes work so much better than the new linings.

I won't use modern linings.. they just don't work right on our old drum cars.

I re-line my own shoes with old stock asbestos rivet type linings now.

[9 foot box]

   I signed in to eBay and searched 1162D brake lining. I found linings and rivets for front drums for my truck. I also bought 1125D linings and rivets for the 1 ton rear axle, with 14” drums. A set marked 1162DC also came up. There are still some OEM linings available. I’m not convinced that you filed the slot down enough on your pins. I don’t mean to muddy the water, just sharing. Rick D.

[James_Douglas]

My 1960 Wagner Brake catalog shows the linings for desoto 1946 to 1954 with a 6 cylinder as 3/16 of an inch.

 

Now, keep in mind that the Wagner cat also lists part numbers to order the shoes with the correct oversize for a turned drum. Those would be larger than the 3/16" for a standard none turned drum.

 

The MOPAR books when they show the thickness is for a shoe BEFORE GRINDING. If you used a 3/16" lining there would be nothing to grind if the drum was oversize and it would not stop well as the arc of the lining would not match the arc of the drum. That is why in the MOPAR parts books it is thicker than 3/16....

 

To do it correctly for maximum braking the arc of the shoe needs to match that of the drum minus I think it says .008 inch. Slightly tapper the very ends so it does not grab.

 

 

They did not list the length of the push rods.

 

James

Edited February 25, 2022 by James_Douglas

[desoto1939]

Procedure to micrometer the brake drums.

 

Marc take each drum to a Current Auto repair. Ask if they have the AMMCO Brake Micrometer gage to measure the inside of a brake drum.

 

Have them measure each drum write dow the measurement on each drum with a yellow marker and the locatin of the drum example RR 11.10 so the drum is the right rear and the inside measurement is 11.10thousands.  This is the measurement that the brake shop needs to know if they are going to arc the shoes.  Als the shoes need to be marked such as rr 11.10

 

The tool shown is the AMMCO 8500 safe Mic tool all good brake and repair centers should have this tool.  You might get harged but then you willhave the correct measurement.s

 

I have this tool for my 39 Desoto

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

 

 

[MarcDeSoto]

I took my brake drums and shoes to C.H. Toppping Brakes today.  All the cars there were pre-1959!  There was a gorgeous black 40 Ford Tudor.  It was so pretty, I wondered if they looked that good when they were new on the dealer showroom floor.  There also a couple of 50s Pontiacs.  One was a bright orange 56 Starfire.  And up on the rack was an old Bentley.  Someone had the top chopped!  I can't see trying to hot rod a Bentley.  They looked at my shoes and said these don't look too thick.  I said well I can't get my drums to go over them.  So they shaved a tiny amount off.  I told them to take off about 1/32" and they need to be about 3/16".  Now I can get my drums on, but can't turn the drum as the brakes are too tight!  What am I doing wrong?  One thing they didn't tell me was I was supposed to bring in the anchor bolts too.  I asked why and they said they could set it up and measure it more accurately.  Could I be turning the major and minor adjustments bolts wrong.  I just turn them until I see the shoe go in as far as it can, but maybe that's wrong?  Maybe I should try to file the push rods again?  

Edited February 26, 2022 by MarcDeSoto

[joecoozie]

 

[James_Douglas]

The anchor bolts are cam shaped. But on your miller tool, set at the drum size and turn the anchor bolts pull the shoe as far away from the tool as you can. I am assuming the the the adjusters mid backing plate are turned all the way in.

 

James

[9 foot box]

   In downloads under most downloaded, to the far right, is a diagram of the drum/shoe adjustment. The arrows on the anchor bolts point to the wheel cylinder. The minor adjustment cam pin is fully retracted when you put your wrench on it and push the wrench up on both front and rear. If that doesn’t give you more clearance, PM Harmony and get a measurement of his pins, from the bottom of the slot to the rounded end that inserts into the cylinder. You will want all four pins on your front wheels the same length. You’ll find your old pins when you get this figured, Murphy’s Law.

[kencombs]

When you filed the push rods, did you cut them to the same size as the old ones?  Rounded end to the bottom of the slot?

 

I think you said you had one or more of the old ones earlier.