Noticed the Plymouth prices on eBay lately?

[knuckleharley]

2 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

I amended my post to read "that would have cost a half million to build in a custom shop."

 

We must keep in mind that not all vintage car fans are gearheads who know how or love to crawl under their vehicles. For these owners the only avenue is to pay someone to build and maintain their cars. As I mentioned earlier....it's all relative. The person who is in a position to pay a shop a few $100K to build a restoration or custom vehicle won't blink at buying an old Mopar for a fraction of what a show paint job or interior would cost.

 

I don't disrespect those well-heeled owners, I admire the effort and years they spent achieving their success. If one of them wants to pay a good price for my Plymouth....I'm fine with it. But my P-15 probably isn't nice enough to get their attention.  ?

I agree with Sam,and will take it a step further. To most/probably all of US,finding and rebuilding our old cars is the big attraction. How many others have you known that have brought a junker home,tore it down,and spend a year or more rebuilding and tracking down original pieces that were missing or two bad to rebuild,and then turned around and sold it within a year of getting it on the road,and then seen dragging another one home.

 

To us,the whole damn "adventure" of tracking down,dragging home,and bring back to life a dream of our youth IS the attraction.

 

To others who have no interest in anything but owning and driving a restored/rodded,shiney "new old car",just writing a check is the obvious way to go. Don't believe me? Wander out into your garage and start adding up the cost of all the tools,spare parts,building your own jigs,etc,etc,etc,and by the time you are through you could have just bought the damn car from one of those tv auctions and been "driving today".

 

Speaking personally,I am no longer even sure I am attracted to owning the old cars as I am to owning the necessary tools to work on them and do anything that needs to be done. I have sold cars,but can't honestly remember selling a single tool in my entire life.

 

Frankly, I can walk out into my shop and get the "warm and fuzzies" just from looking around at the tools I have accumulated over the years,and my favorite ones are alway the ones that are only useful for one thing I almost never need to do. Just knowing I have it IF I need it gets me a little dizzy.

[Plymouthy Adams]

not only is there an investment in tools, the very space you create and outfit with lights, air, water, heat and items such as lifts and other larger line items...it adds up quick....but is essential for the DIYer.  Today I am in the shop putting my sub assemblies together as I finally am able to start my assembly of my other lift....tickled as a kid at Christmas about any day in the shop, just think of the added joys as it is CHRISTMAS day....

Edited December 25, 2020 by Plymouthy Adams

[knuckleharley]

2 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

not only is there an investment in tools, the very space you create and outfit with lights, air, water, heat and items such as lifts and other larger line items...it adds up quick....but is essential for the DIYer.  Today I am in the shop putting my sub assemblies together as I finally am able to start my assembly of my other lift....tickled as a kid at Christmas about any day in the shop, just think of the added joys as it is CHRISTMAS day....

Oh,yeah!

 

I have had my lift for maybe 10 years now,and my heart still pumps with excitement at the realities and the possibilities of it every time I walk into the shop and see my 42 Dodge coupe sitting on it,and my 31 Plymouth coupe parked beneath it.

 

I have came a long way from being the 8 year old boy whose father wouldn't help him fix a flat on his bicycle,tell him how to do it,and even told me he would beat my ass if he caught me using one of his crescent wrenches to take the wheel off.

 

Seems like his plan to discourage me from messing with old cars backfired.

[Booger]

I seen that 49 for 40K. Rotisserie restore. Ok cute, mueseum **** thats fine

what fun is it if you dont scrape a few knuckles and get greasy? Hot rod all you want, I mean thats great and all. Everyone has a reason they were attracted to these clunkers.

for me when I got passed off to my grandfolk as a kid from summer break gramps was a traveling salesman to the dairy industry selingl feed supplements.

(whoa here comes a calf!). cruising with him in his old mopars on a warm summer day..spending time with Gramps drew me to these old cars and the memory of him.

60 years later the memories are still there?

[knuckleharley]

7 hours ago, michaelmarks697@yahoo.com said:

I seen that 49 for 40K. Rotisserie restore. Ok cute, mueseum **** thats fine

what fun is it if you dont scrape a few knuckles and get greasy? Hot rod all you want, I mean thats great and all. Everyone has a reason they were attracted to these clunkers.

for me when I got passed off to my grandfolk as a kid from summer break gramps was a traveling salesman to the dairy industry selingl feed supplements.

(whoa here comes a calf!). cruising with him in his old mopars on a warm summer day..spending time with Gramps drew me to these old cars and the memory of him.

60 years later the memories are still there?

And of what value is life without heart-warming memories? 

Life is for living,sharing,and enjoying. Anything you can do that adds to the pleasure of daily living not only makes life better,chances are it increases both your health AND your life.

I like to consider myself to generally be a pleasant and helpful person,but if the time ever comes my body gets so bad I have to live in one of those "homes",I feel sorry for the staff that has to put up with me. Better to just drag me outside and put a bullet in my head.

 

I don't HAVE to be working on something to be happy,but I at least have to be THINKING and PLANNING to work on something. The old "fake it until you can make it!" ploy. May not fool anybody,including yourself,but it sure as hell helps me get through the day. 

[Worden18]

What someone is asking for a car and what they actually might get are two different things.  But, as someone mentioned, you only need one buyer.  My boss paid $100,000 for a '61 Biscayne.  Although it is a damn nice car with an LS-1 engine, it's not worth anywhere near 100K in my opinion.  But, he couldn't wait to spend some money on SOMETHING... he's just bored.  Money is not an issue for some, and those same people aren't worried about recovering money later on down the road.

[Loren]

What we forget while discussing this topic is the history of a particular car and a buyer's life experience.

A friend of mine owns the Maserati which was mentioned in Joe Walsh's "Life's been good."

 

My Maserati does one-eighty-five

I lost my license, now I don't drive

I have a Limo, ride in the back

I lock the doors in case I'm attacked

 

My friend was contacted by one of the "Accountants who pay for it all" to see if he could sell it.

The Maserati engine of course was a dim memory and the Chevy engine that replaced it was blown up too and the pieces scattered among machine shops.

My friend bought the car with a "treasure map" list of where the parts were. When he picked it up Joe Walsh was there and since My friend had no idea of who he was, the only thing he found remarkable was how drunk he was. They gave him the Nevada License Plate "Does 185" to go with the car.

After trying to get the engine pieces back it was found that they had been mishandled and weren't worth the effort.

So he updated to an LS engine and a 6 speed transmission.

Once he got it running and actually drove it he found out what a crappy car they are.

 

In the film "The Adventurers" (Candice Bergen's first film) there was a red roadster that I thought was the sexiest car ever made. I was rather deflated to hear his opinion. Then I started looking at it. It had an American DANA 44 rear axle just like my IH Scout ll.

What I am getting at is the value of a Maserati isn't its performance, its the exterior beauty of it.

The value of my friend's car isn't the Corvette running gear (you could buy a real Corvette that would drive better for less) it is who owned the car before him and the "cultural icon" of the song.

A car has value to a buyer based on the buyer's personal history and "what floats their boat".

It has nothing to do with the functionality of the car.

[Plymouthy Adams]

hey Loren, lots of busted dream stories in the hobby and it does not always surround the exotics.  Most busted dream revert back to the lies of the seller if you truly listen to car owners talking aloud.  Car's value is what the other man is willing to pay and what the seller can live with.  Regardless of asking and getting, inflated prices due to hype and fluff TV shows....guess the best thing said here today is just be glad you got your fix when you did...it is inevitable the prices will rise....it is also inevitable that many folks will never pay that price as some here have mentioned they just that cheap...well, I could probably say a few words on this but best not I think...letting you off the hook Frankie...!!!!  As for the Dana 44, that is a Salisbury in European Dana lingo...I have a number of these on various European sport cars....they a little throw back to taper axle and keys....but still a substantial built unit.  

[Sam Buchanan]

41 minutes ago, Loren said:

 

A car has value to a buyer based on the buyer's personal history and "what floats their boat".

It has nothing to do with the functionality of the car.

 

Following WWII a young soldier and his bride bought a new 1948 Plymouth which they enjoyed for several years. Decades later, he and his wife decided to use some of their discretionary retirement money to find a 1948 Plymouth in which they could capture some of the enjoyment of their long-ago Plymouth experience. In the late 1980's they found a nice local P-15 which had recently received new paint, interior and an engine rebuild. The couple enjoyed driving their car in local parades and car shows.

 

Seven years ago the couple had passed on and their son had inherited the car. However, he was not a "car guy" and after some initial repair work allowed the car to sit for five years in his garage. The brakes were seized and the car wouldn't run when he decided there was no point in him keeping his Dad's car that just took up space and would always be a money pit for him. Fortunately, I was able to beat another serious buyer to the car since he was convinced I was the right person to return his parent's car to the road. So my P-15 journey began.

 

The cycle is in the process of repeating. It turns out my wife really enjoys riding through the countryside at a relaxed pace in the old Plymouth and I anticipate keeping it for the foreseeable future. I have no idea how much the WWII veteran paid for this P-15, it was probably too much, but it was a great value because it allowed him and his bride to relive part of their youth. I paid too much for it because the son had emotional attachment to the car but it was the car I wanted because I felt it only needed some TLC to be returned to excellent service and cosmetic condition. I had no idea how much I and my bride would enjoy the car. The purchase price was a bargain.

 

So how much is this car worth? As is often the case, market value depends on the perspective of the buyer.  ?

 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by Sam Buchanan

[pflaming]

My interest  is hobby related and the sound of the flathead engine.  Additionally the discussions with interested people.  What I have learned and the people I’m now in touch with are priceless..  my one limiting fastir is my age. It has significantly caught up with me! 

[Plymouthy Adams]

Sam, does the trailer come with the deal......?

[keithb7]

I’m not entirely sure of the path that this thread has taken. I do enjoy the comments. 
 

Old Mopars, I don’t care much about their worth. The experience, education and joy they bring me is priceless.  If someone miraculously showed up at my door and said “I’ll give you $50K for your 2 cars, all your tools, and spare parts”. The deal was subject to me selling my house so the garage was gone too...I‘d pass. I don’t know what the heck I’d do with myself. My tools allow me to do so much. Not just on my old Mopars.  I’d be wrecked. Retirement plans destroyed.  I can’t put a price tag on the things that bring me joy in life. A life time of acquiring tools, then all my tools  vanished? I can’t accept that. 
 

I like to compare my situation to a friend who is an avid golfer. He spends thousands per year on golf fees. Clubs. Gear. Etc. A lifetime of that, adds up to a considerable amount too. Does he care about recovering his investment when he gets out? When he can’t golf any more? Our old cars and tools fare pretty well by comparison. 
 

Sell my cars and tools and take up pickle ball? Naw. No interest. When it comes time to sell off an old Mopar I’ll probably start with a higher asking price. After a while of inactivity I’ll drop the price. I’ll keep doing so until I start getting inquiries. Then I’ll know I’m just about in the right price range. Until then I’ll just keep pouring time and some money into my cars. It makes me happy. The whole experience is fun. Part of it Includes coming here.  The experience is not for sale. 

Edited December 26, 2020 by keithb7

[kbuhagiar]

18 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

I’m not entirely sure of the path that this thread has taken. I do enjoy the comments. 
 

Old Mopars, I don’t care much about their worth. The experience, education and joy they bring me is priceless.  If someone miraculously showed up at my door and said “I’ll give you $50K for your 2 cars, all your tools, and spare parts”. The deal was subject to me selling my house so the garage was gone too...I‘d pass. I don’t know what the heck I’d do with myself. My tools allow me to do so much. Not just on my old Mopars.  I’d be wrecked. Retirement plans destroyed.  I can’t put a price tag on the things that bring me joy in life. A life time of acquiring tools, then all my tools  vanished? I can’t accept that. 
 

I like to compare my situation to a friend who is an avid golfer. He spends thousands per year on golf fees. Clubs. Gear. Etc. A lifetime of that, adds up to a considerable amount too. Does he care about recovering his investment when he gets out? When he can’t golf any more? Our old cars and tools fare pretty well by comparison. 
 

Sell my cars and tools and take up pickle ball? Naw. No interest. When it comes time to sell off an old Mopar I’ll probably start with a higher asking price. After a while of inactivity I’ll drop the price. I’ll keep doing so until I start getting inquiries. Then I’ll know I’m just about in the right price range. Until then I’ll just keep pouring time and some money into my cars. It makes me happy. The whole experience is fun. Part of it Includes coming here.  The experience is not for sale. 

 

Perfectly stated. Well done!

 

It's exactly how I feel about the car hobby and how it dovetails into our lives

[Booger]

3 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

 

Following WWII a young soldier and his bride bought a new 1948 Plymouth which they enjoyed for several years. Decades later, he and his wife decided to use some of their discretionary retirement money to find a 1948 Plymouth in which they could capture some of the enjoyment of their long-ago Plymouth experience. In the late 1980's they found a nice local P-15 which had recently received new paint, interior and an engine rebuild. The couple enjoyed driving their car in local parades and car shows.

 

Seven years ago the couple had passed on and their son had inherited the car. However, he was not a "car guy" and after some initial repair work allowed the car to sit for five years in his garage. The brakes were seized and the car wouldn't run when he decided there was no point in him keeping his Dad's car that just took up space and would always be a money pit for him. Fortunately, I was able to beat another serious buyer to the car since he was convinced I was the right person to return his parent's car to the road. So my P-15 journey began.

 

The cycle is in the process of repeating. It turns out my wife really enjoys riding through the countryside at a relaxed pace in the old Plymouth and I anticipate keeping it for the foreseeable future. I have no idea how much the WWII veteran paid for this P-15, it was probably too much, but it was a great value because it allowed him and his bride to relive part of their youth. I paid too much for it because the son had emotional attachment to the car but it was the car I wanted because I felt it only needed some TLC to be returned to excellent service and cosmetic condition. I had no idea how much I and my bride would enjoy the car. The purchase price was a bargain.

 

So how much is this car worth? As is often the case, market value depends on the perspective of the buyer.  ?

 

 

 

that thing is primo

[Loren]

As many have said the value of something is what the market says it is.

One of the nicest 49 Special Deluxe 2 doors I've seen in a long time was put up for competitive bidding on eBay.

Two bidders took it to $9,290. The seller had other ideas with a reserve beyond that. I know he advertised the same car for $22,000 on his web site.

As nice as it is I think under $10,000 might have been a fair price. A price a reasonable person who liked the car might have paid.

With 4 1949 Plymouths on eBay at the same time (and 3 of them equally as nice) there seems to be no shortage so anything beyond $10,000 is simply not going to happen.

I figure there are two tiers of pricing.

Tier one are those that are actually for sale by sellers would for one reason or another want or need to sell.

Tier Two are the dealers who have lots of cars to display and trade up to the best examples which they can afford to offer for sale at foolishly high prices. The thinking being that sooner or later someone will pay their price (or they can trade for something else) and in the mean time the quality of the cars they display does nothing to hurt their reputation.

eBay has become the showroom for these dealers, like Best Buy is the showroom for Amazon.

If you want it now, you have to pay up.

 

[Dan Hiebert]

I can't state it any better than you'uns have been through this thread.  Very nice reading.  What I've noticed with these silly high prices is that many "esteemed collectors", are really just investors.  Very few of them actually drive any of their cars, much less work on them.  Rather than gold or real estate, they're working the old car market.  Watch those auctions more than once, you'll see the same cars crossing the block, and the commentators lamenting that it sold for less than what it sold for last month, etc., etc.  I think some folks asking that ridiculous price are trying to play off of that, or get into the market themselves.  The problem I have with it is that it raises old car prices out of my range.  But the desired cars seem to be arbitrary.  Our '37 Terraplane should be a gold mine, orphan brand a few times over, relatively rare, unique looking (love it or hate it), but it's had the same value just about since we've had it.  Not that I'm looking to sell it.  Like you all, I enjoy the trials and tribulations of its ownership.   

[Tooljunkie]

Good read.

on several occasions i have bought fixer uppers(off brand) and put them on the road. Didnt care for the ride or felt uncomfortable to me. So i sold them. I never get more than what i have in parts,for the most part the labour is a freebie. I sell them to recoup my money, that’s it. 
this last one, my Fargo i have been keeping a rough idea of hours, at the 300 mark. So nearing $20,000 on something i might get &6,000 for. 
i enjoyed every minute of working on it. I had nearly every nut and bolt off the truck at least once. 
 

beauty is in the eye of the beholder, same goes for value.

 

I really enjoy reading and learning about all the old mopars being brought back to life and the history of them. 
 

[greg g]

So I looked at eBay, seems people are afflicted by Barrett Jackson Syndrome.  I looked to see if one of the Plymouths mentioned was Magoo.  Several years ago a fellow named Howard was on this forum.  Despite much discussion warning him against a major investment into this vehicle he went ahead with his plans.  Three years and many thousands of dollars and at least three custom shops later the car was declared finished.  It was a very nice looking vehicle but didn't run or drive or stop Welland his wife didn't like riding in it due to reliability issues and the AC didn't work.  The car was put up for sale on several auction and consignment sites.  I believed over the years it passed through several owners, but Ike a bad penny kept showing up for sale for high money but way less than half of what was spent on it.   Last time I saw it was in the Midwest some where at a classic car dealership wanting for lots of money but still only about 25% of what went into it.  Magoo turned into all the things that can go wrong with old cars.  It also proved the how to make a small fortune in the old car hobby.  Start with a large fortune and buy an old car...

 

 

I bought my 46 in 1970 for the princely sum of $250.00.  During my 50 plus years of ownership I have probably spent about 10k on it, not counting gas maintenance and insurance, put 60k miles on it and have enjoyed the heck out of it.  If I were in a need to sell it, I think I might get my money back as it sits right now as a turnkey, drive anywhere car, with no reliability issues, upgraded to a 56 230 with a 54 overdrive and 15 year old paint job. I have instructed my executor to ask 15,000 for it and see what the market brings.  Maybe they will be stuck with it for 50 years too...

Edited December 28, 2020 by greg g

[keithb7]

I suspect I am at at the apex, or nearing it when it comes to investment and recovery costs at sell time. As I mentioned above, that is not a driving factor for me. I am rebuilding my engine now, it will likely take me over the apex. To the land of diminishing monetary returns. Smiles per mile, the feeling of accomplishment, and experience, charted on a graph, the chart still going up. Steep. 

 

I look around and see really nice looking restored '38 Plymouths. Thousands and thousands spent. Countless hours. I could pick up a very nice restored 4 door sedan for $12K USD. It cost plenty more to build! Plenty.  How boring would that be for me? Owning a fully restored one, at this point in my life? We'll I'd probably need a second one to keep my busy. Me at 70? Well, I might very well have a different outlook! ? Maybe not, plenty of guys here having fun at 70 and up. Still dropping trannies and pounding off seized rear drums.

Edited December 28, 2020 by keithb7

[Knaveofdarts]

Hmm let me think about what I've paid for my project cars over the years...

 

1966 Dodge Dart - $759 (2004 ?) - slant six ran and drove, poorly - ended up with a warmed up 318 and junkyard disc brakes. Sold for $2200. Wish I'd kept it.

1983 Pontiac Trans Am - free (2006) this went through 3 engines... v6 to 305 to 350.. sold back to previous owner, still running today

1963 Studebaker Lark $650 (2007) rusty, but ran & drove. Traded up.

1971 Lincoln Mk3 - $800 (2008) ran + drove. motor apart again, ate a cam, still workin on it!

1985 Oldsmobile Delta 88 $600 (2010 ?) gave to a buddy and he drove it for about 6 years as daily driver. Tank. Bane of trash cans and mailboxes. Now in the great junkyard in the sky.

1988 Chevy k1500 free (2013) - Parts truck. DD for a year or so till it caught on fire

1971 Mg Midget - free (2017) literal barn find, motor locked up hard, gave away for parts.

1959 Austin Princess - $1400 (2018) challenging project. Rewired + finally got it to crank...

1950 Plymouth Deluxe $800 (2020) oh boy im in deep now

 

$800 tends to be my "bad idea? can't say no" price point. Although free is also quite acceptable.

 

As for ebay prices, I've had decent luck with local listings i can check out, or at least drive to pick up.

I can't see paying $20,000 for a restored car just going off pictures and some 3rd party's word. Pictures can be very deceiving. Pictures made rust look 90% better than it is, pictures add shine and hide bondo...

Edited December 28, 2020 by Knaveofdarts

[MackTheFinger]

I like old Mopars about as much as anyone but this is my opinion. 

 

A P-15 or D-24, stock, running and driving, is worth $4k-$10k... It would take a pretty special one to be worth more.. 

[NickPickToo]

55 minutes ago, MackTheFinger said:

I like old Mopars about as much as anyone but this is my opinion. 

 

A P-15 or D-24, stock, running and driving, is worth $4k-$10k... It would take a pretty special one to be worth more.. 

Yea, but don't get mad when you see mine out on e-bay with a slick story and a $40K price tag.  I do love her, but if someone comes along that will pay me $40K, I'll find enough love for a few more.

[knuckleharley]

1 hour ago, NickPickToo said:

Yea, but don't get mad when you see mine out on e-bay with a slick story and a $40K price tag.  I do love her, but if someone comes along that will pay me $40K, I'll find enough love for a few more.

Soooo,you are into pimping-out Plymouths?

[MackTheFinger]

On 12/28/2020 at 5:11 PM, NickPickToo said:

Yea, but don't get mad when you see mine out on e-bay with a slick story and a $40K price tag.  I do love her, but if someone comes along that will pay me $40K, I'll find enough love for a few more.

I wish you luck and no offense intended, your car's looking good but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on $40K. 

 

The only Mopar I've seen locally that I'd consider is a '56 New Yorker, $5.5; nice original car but needs a transmission. ? There's an original condition, running and driving P15 coupe for sale at $8.5 pretty close by. It's tempting but still too many $$, I just built another building and I really need to buy a tractor..?

[Sam Buchanan]

On 12/28/2020 at 5:11 PM, NickPickToo said:

Yea, but don't get mad when you see mine out on e-bay with a slick story and a $40K price tag.  I do love her, but if someone comes along that will pay me $40K, I'll find enough love for a few more.

 

Nick, I think your sense of sideways humor may have gone over the heads of a couple of our forum members.......  ?

 

Your dad taught you well!  ?