What would you do?? - 52 COE Project

[Eneto-55]

22 minutes ago, 52b3b Joe said:

 

I have a 1953 John Deere 50, but I don't want to make a career out of mowing! I plan on buying some sort of commercial 60" zero turn. 

I've heard that the commercial models are more stable on inclines, but we have a home-owner's type zero turn, AND a steep bank at the back of our property.  Start in on that hill and it will just go its own way - down hill.  (I rode it out through a grove of evergreen trees the first time I tried to mow that area.)

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Eneto-55

[Plymouthy Adams]

IF..you get a three blade deck...ensure the blade is such that your deck will now hold down blades of tall grass while going over it and prevent the blades from cutting....this is a problem with many three bladed decks....the outer edge has no depth and yields a shallow blade pocket in these areas....here in the south, bahia is ever present...poses serious cutting issues...not sure what you may be cutting...Johnson grass is about its equal to that effect...

[DJ194950]

What effect do you get from your Johnson grass? Southern prices these days?  ?

 

The stuff I grow gets rave reviews and I grow it at home, no artificial lights or anything  unnatural!  ???

 

Hope ya know I'm kidding!

 

DJ

[Plymouthy Adams]

its the grapevines that is the cats meow to smoke.....

[DJ194950]

Now back to our regular scheduled programming.

[JBNeal]

ZTR mowers are ok but I'm not a fan...JD, Hustler, Scag, Dixon, et al run upwards of 10dB louder than a conventional mower as conventionals have their mufflers further away from the operator's seat while ZTRs have a muffler within arm's reach behind your head...conventional mowers have a smoother ride as almost all of their weight is between the axles; ZTRs teeter over the rear wheels as those tiny front wheels bounce away...conventional mowers can hold a straight line traversing a slope, whereas ZTRs have to be feathered to try to hold a line on a slope, basically it's a controlled slide...ZTRs can make a tight circle, but the tires chew up the ground in the process as they twist the turf+dirt while pivoting, if ya can keep the tires from spinning...

 

I bought a '92 JD 425 back in 2001 that had caught fire due to neglected maintenance, was gonna fix it up to flip it, but after giving it a shakedown workout, I decided to keep it...water-cooled Kawasaki 20hp, all-wheel steering, hydrostatic transmission + power steering, 54inch deck with hydraulic lift, floats over lumpy ground, pulls steep hills, effortless steering, turned a 6 hour job with the worn '86 Cub Cadet into a 3 hr job...I use that machine to tractor stuff around, drag off brush, etc...if ya have more than 2 acres, ya gotta get into heavy duty estate machines with retail support, not the cheapos from HomeDepot that will leave ya disappointed especially when it's time for maintenance...I am now mowing not only my place but 4 retired neighbors' acreage as they tried the cheap stuff for years but found it was cheaper just to pay me to knock it out in half the time with my old green machine 

[Don Coatney]

Bought this 50" cut Graveley in the late 80's for a buck by writing it into a house contract. Used it on the farm to pull hay wagons as well as cutting several acres of grass. Gave it to my son 5 yeas ago to replace his Cub Cadet. 

 

 

[48Dodger]

Love my 48" deck Graveley  zero turn.....

 

48D

[kencombs]

On 10/17/2019 at 10:06 PM, Don Coatney said:

Bought this 50" cut Graveley in the late 80's for a buck by writing it into a house contract. Used it on the farm to pull hay wagons as well as cutting several acres of grass. Gave it to my son 5 yeas ago to replace his Cub Cadet. 

 

 

That Gravely transaxle is just bulletproof.  And, great traction for their size since the main weight is between the wheels. They also came with Gravely, Onan and Kohler engines, depending on year and model.   Looks like yours is the rope start.  Not my favorite version!

[HotRodTractor]

On 10/17/2019 at 8:13 PM, JBNeal said:

conventional mowers have a smoother ride as almost all of their weight is between the axles; ZTRs teeter over the rear wheels as those tiny front wheels bounce away..

 

Not all ZTRs are like this. My ZTR has 4 wheel independent suspension - its the best riding lawn mower I have ever been around. Its also big enough that the the front wheels don't bounce - but it is also a commercial unit with a diesel engine. Its big and heavy, but floats like a cloud.

[Don Coatney]

1 hour ago, kencombs said:

That Gravely transaxle is just bulletproof.  And, great traction for their size since the main weight is between the wheels. They also came with Gravely, Onan and Kohler engines, depending on year and model.   Looks like yours is the rope start.  Not my favorite version!

 

Electric start, rope backup.

[ggdad1951]

The recent COE made me think of this.....were is the project Joe?

[52b3b Joe]

2 hours ago, ggdad1951 said:

The recent COE made me think of this.....were is the project Joe?

 

Funny you bring this up. I actually started tinkering with it a couple months ago. I bought rims/tires, and I pulled the wiring harness out of it and ordered all the material to make a new one. I also picked up a spare COE frame and drivetrain for parts and got that engine running very good. Honestly my hesitation was getting the title for it before spending money. I'm 75% sure I'm past that hurdle, so I started spending a little time and money. I should know in the next couple weeks if the title is official for it. Wish me luck. 

[52b3b Joe]

I know it's not much, but here are a few pictures of the little I've done on it. I found modern tubeless 10R22.5 6 lug wheels with new recaps on the drives and virgin steer tires. I'm a little worried about tire clearance with the 10R22.5s being a little more diameter than the 8.25-20s on it currently, but we'll see. The price was right, I only spent $1,100 on 6 wheel/tire combinations and it came with a 2 speed axle out of a 2.5 ton Ford. I'm really thinking about putting the 2 speed in this truck, but we will see. It's an early 60's unit with an electric shift solenoid. It was in a truck and shifting like it should when it was pulled out. The frame that the tires are leaned against is the spare parts frame I bought. It's a 47 1.5 ton COE chassis. A lot of the parts are not the same, but there is plenty I can save. The engine runs very good, and I got the chassis for free, so the price was right. I'm trying to make this project as budget friendly as possible, so I've been trying to get parts as I find good deals. Next on the list is to get the new wiring harness built this winter. I'm thinking this spring or summer I'll get the engine in the truck running to see what I have. If that pans out ok, I'll probably move on to the brakes and then start taking it apart to do the body and paint. The truck is too rough for me to drive it with patina. I'm also on a search for a better bed for the truck, but I haven't found the right one yet that I can afford. 

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by 52b3b Joe

[wagoneer]

Well since this topic started in 2014, this gives me hope I may yet get back  to my b2b. I’ve had to put my b2b aside for last 18 months or so sadly but I too collect parts and bits. I should sort my title out also. 

[Dodgeb4ya]

As for the 22.5  taller tires on your  COE those tall tires will impact the trucks ability to possibly have enough power to climb some grades.

The 251 engine will handle the 8.25's tires fine.

9.00's would be ok on mainly rolling hills with the factory optional lower ratio rear ends.

With the 22.5's.....not loaded and on the flats it might have enough power for you....maybe.

It all depends on the final rear axle ratio.

If it were me I would drive it a bit with the 8.25's a bit for comparison before installing the 22.5's.

I used to drive my 1950 2-1/2 tonner Dodge 251 weekly always hauling something heavy...cars, scrap, loads of bricks, lumber etc.

The truck had the 5.83/8.11 Eaton 2 spd rear axle and a 5 speed 1 to 1 in 5th.

It had enough power to go anywhere I needed it to go loaded.

I put some good used 9:00 X 20's on the back to replace questionable worn rear 8.25 tires. The truck lost the ability to climb hills comfortablity with the 9.00's.

I had to go back to the 8.25 tires.

The right rear axle ratio will compensate for tire size making the truck fun to drive and use.

Shown here is the factory rear end ratio's and more...

 

 

[52b3b Joe]

14 minutes ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

As for the 22.5  taller tires on your  COE those tall tires will impact the trucks ability to possibly have enough power to climb some grades.

The 251 engine will handle the 8.25's tires fine.

9.00's would be ok on mainly rolling hills with the factory optional lower ratio rear ends.

With the 22.5's.....not loaded and on the flats it might have enough power for you....maybe.

It all depends on the final rear axle ratio.

If it were me I would drive it a bit with the 8.25's a bit for comparison before installing the 22.5's.

I used to drive my 1950 2-1/2 tonner Dodge 251 weekly always hauling something heavy...cars, scrap, loads of bricks, lumber etc.

The truck had the 5.83/8.11 Eaton 2 spd rear axle and a 5 speed 1 to 1 in 5th.

It had enough power to go anywhere I needed it to go loaded.

I put some good used 9:00 X 20's on the back to replace questionable worn rear 8.25 tires. The truck lost the ability to climb hills comfortablity with the 9.00's.

I had to go back to the 8.25 tires.

The right rear axle ratio will compensate for tire size making the truck fun to drive and use.

Shown here is the factory rear end ratio's and more...

 

 

 

 

I have been really worried about power issues with the 10R22.5s. I figured for the cost of the wheels alone, it was worth what I spent. The 10R22.5 (40.4") is close in diameter to a 9.00-20 (40.1"), which is 2" taller than the 8.25-20. If I have an issue I was going to look for 9R22.5, which is the same as a 8.25-20. Where I live, it is very flat. I'm being hopeful that the 10Rs will work as long as the don't rub when turning. It's also going to be horrible to maneuver the truck with those radials. It's already bad enough with the 8.25-20s on it now...

 

I believe the truck has the 6.285:1 in it. The 2 speed I bought is a 6.33/8.8:1. I was thinking it would help off set the reduced take-off power with the taller tires, but obviously won't help my cruising speed power. 

 

With what you experienced, do you think it will be fine over flat ground? The biggest hill around here is going over an overpass lol. 

 

[Dodgeb4ya]

You will have to try it. The flat roads certainly will help.

You have that 2 speed with a lower direct drive ratio too.

Don't fret over it now. When it's ready to drive safely  drive some as is with the 8.25's then the 10/22.5's.

If the truck struggles put that 2 speed axle in. The 2 speed rear axles are great and give you double the gears to get going. Fun to operate to with a little practice. Only thing yours is 12 volt I assume...

The OE 2 speed optional axle for your truck was originally a Eaton 1350 series.

I would always want the 2 speed axle in the old Dodges.

Two of my trucks have the 2 speed rear ends.

[Larr991]

Glad to see this truck, similar to mine! Notice this thread and surprising it was about a COE. Mine has the smaller 6 in it, thanks to Dodgeb4ya showing me the specs, with a 2-speed rear. It has 7.50/20's on it now with the ever-popular Firestone widow makers original to the truck. I have 5 good 5-hole Budd wheels, (older style) that I'm going to put the 7.50's on. Also have enough wheels with 8.25/20's on it, but not going to put them on it. The truck really does not have a ton of power, but most of these older trucks never did. It does roll smoothly, but really doesn't gain much when you split the 2 speed. I guess as that said, neither does my 46 chevy, and that has the bigger loadmaster 6 in it. Nothing gained, nothing lost just giving you my take on it. Most of these engines were only in the 100 hp range if that.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Larr991

[47 dodge 1.5 ton]

I currently have 5.625 gears and 7.50 x 20’s(not available anymore). The truck does well empty, loaded is another story. I am in 2nd more than I wish on many of our hills around Gettysburg Pa. I can pull those same hills in my ‘06 3500 5.9 Cummins in 6th if that gives a comparison with about the same weight. I am seriously thinking about 7.00’s and swapping to a 2speed rear 5.83 in high range. Don’t think I’d consider 8.25’s unless you have some gears below 6.xx. 

[52b3b Joe]

I totally expect the truck to act like everyone is describing. Some of the trucks I drive at work feel hopelessly underpowered, and I expect this COE to be far worse! I've been battling the title process this week for the COE, and it's been extremely frustrating. Ohio is a huge pain with titles. I wish I had a friend in Vermont right now! 

[Los_Control]

Trying to get a title in some states can be a nightmare. I have titled 1 car here in Texas before, it is pretty painless.

Some people might think sharing the Vermont title process is a way to steal a car .... Is not true.

But it is a way to get a title legally where is almost impossible otherwise.

 

This kid in Tennessee used it and explains the process pretty well. He works as a paralegal for a lawyer ... pretty sharp with the paperwork.

 

Also important to understand you do not actually get a title. Vermont vehicles over X amount of years do not get a title.

They issue a registration & that is considered your title in Vermont .... The way I understand it.

They have no problems issuing out of state registrations. they collect the tax revenue from it.

They are well aware you are registering a vehicle that has been parked for many years.

They do run a check on the vin to see if it is stolen or on any computers ... they will refuse if it is.

 

Anyways you complete the process, they send you registration, plates, tags. You are legal to drive anywhere with the car.

As always your state allows 30 days or whatever to transfer out of state vehicles to your address.

When you go to DMV with your Vermont plates & registration to transfer it to your current address .... They keep or destroy the Vermont Registration & issue you a new one.

Since the Vermont registration is a legal title in Vermont, Your state now will issue you a legal replacement title. Since they are taking your existing legal title.

 

 

 

IMHO, DMV & state license fees are often convoluted to create more tax revenue. They create a never ending process just to keep collecting fees.

They can easily check the VIN & run it through the computer ... thats not enough tax revenue for them.

 

Vermont knows this & is a small state with low taxpayers .... They created the Vermont loophole, they will gladly checkout your VIN & register your car to get a share of the tax $$.   Nothing illegal about it.

If more states did this, less states would take advantage of you.

 

I let my drivers license expire when I was sick for a few years. Washington state wanted $150 to start the process, + take a $100 drivers education course ... then they could give me an idea how much more $$ it would cost me.

I moved to Texas instead. Took a written & driving test, paid $25 fee and was finished. .... Every state is different.

[52b3b Joe]

10 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

Trying to get a title in some states can be a nightmare. I have titled 1 car here in Texas before, it is pretty painless.

Some people might think sharing the Vermont title process is a way to steal a car .... Is not true.

But it is a way to get a title legally where is almost impossible otherwise.

 

This kid in Tennessee used it and explains the process pretty well. He works as a paralegal for a lawyer ... pretty sharp with the paperwork.

 

Also important to understand you do not actually get a title. Vermont vehicles over X amount of years do not get a title.

They issue a registration & that is considered your title in Vermont .... The way I understand it.

They have no problems issuing out of state registrations. they collect the tax revenue from it.

They are well aware you are registering a vehicle that has been parked for many years.

They do run a check on the vin to see if it is stolen or on any computers ... they will refuse if it is.

 

Anyways you complete the process, they send you registration, plates, tags. You are legal to drive anywhere with the car.

As always your state allows 30 days or whatever to transfer out of state vehicles to your address.

When you go to DMV with your Vermont plates & registration to transfer it to your current address .... They keep or destroy the Vermont Registration & issue you a new one.

Since the Vermont registration is a legal title in Vermont, Your state now will issue you a legal replacement title. Since they are taking your existing legal title.

 

 

 

IMHO, DMV & state license fees are often convoluted to create more tax revenue. They create a never ending process just to keep collecting fees.

They can easily check the VIN & run it through the computer ... thats not enough tax revenue for them.

 

Vermont knows this & is a small state with low taxpayers .... They created the Vermont loophole, they will gladly checkout your VIN & register your car to get a share of the tax $$.   Nothing illegal about it.

If more states did this, less states would take advantage of you.

 

I let my drivers license expire when I was sick for a few years. Washington state wanted $150 to start the process, + take a $100 drivers education course ... then they could give me an idea how much more $$ it would cost me.

I moved to Texas instead. Took a written & driving test, paid $25 fee and was finished. .... Every state is different.

 

I went through with the VT registration, giving them all of the documentation needed and a good chunk of money. They issued a registration to me, but in recent (very recent) changes to Ohio, they will not accept the VT registration unless I bring in a bill of sale from VT. I can understand what they are trying to prove/prevent, but we're talking about a 71 year old farm truck in this case. I tired an attempt at all the title offices within 1 hour of me with no luck. I will say, they're consistent. In conclusion, if I produce the bill of sale from VT, they'll issue the title. Knock on wood (probably jinxing myself), I've never gotten a speeding ticket let alone any other legal problems in my life, but they made me feel like the world's most wanted criminal at the first title office I went to. I felt like I was going to be walked out in hand cuffs over something that is completely legal. This has me really stressed out.

 

I would have never bought the truck without a title but the owner swore up and down he had it. I was supposed to pick it up a week after I got the truck to give him time to dig around for it. Unfortunately, he could never locate it. I still talk to the original owner about it, and I can understand how it could be lost after 71 years of ownership, but it really stinks right now. I know people in OH that have successfully and painlessly gone the VT route for a cars/bikes, and of course it doesn't work the same anymore. 

[Los_Control]

Thats too bad Ohio is going to be that way.

I have no legal advice whatsoever ...

 

Seems to me if the truck is legally licensed in Vermont, you have plates, registration current tags & insurance.

If you were to get pulled over .... ???

 

In my mind your truck is now legally titled in Vermont. Your truck is entered into the system.

You can not just pretend that the title does not exist & try something new.

You may be arrested if you try.

 

Same time Ohio can not pretend the legal title does not exist. But they are.

 

So that's my question ... what if you were pulled over in the future, you have legal paper work .... You are guilty of not transfer title in a timely manner. You take the ticket to court ..... What would the Judge do?

 

To be honest I would hate to be in the middle of a dispute between two states.

Have you called DMV in Vermont? .... Maybe they have something in place to satisfy this need.

I sure would hate to get a lawyer involved .... Might be a option.

 

I personally might be tempted to just run it under Vermont plates, I imagine they will renew tags through the mail.

This way you have followed the law and have done nothing wrong. You are only guilty of not transfer title which Ohio chooses to refuse.

 

You have a legal title now. The Vermont loophole is a legal process. You can drive that truck legally in any state of the union. Ohio can not charge you with a unregistered or illegal car. .... I'm Sure they can make something up.

 

Another option I might do, sell the truck to my brother in a different state, provide a bill of sale let him transfer the title, then sell it back to me with a bill of sale.

 

This is simply a pissing match between two different states.

Vermont figured out how to create legal tax revenue, Ohio is pissed off they got beat out of tax $$

You have followed the law & now stuck in the middle of their feud.

Time will tell if the Vermont loophole continues .... right now it is legal. You are Grandfathered  or... stuck with it.

 

[52b3b Joe]

44 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

Thats too bad Ohio is going to be that way.

I have no legal advice whatsoever ...

 

Seems to me if the truck is legally licensed in Vermont, you have plates, registration current tags & insurance.

If you were to get pulled over .... ???

 

In my mind your truck is now legally titled in Vermont. Your truck is entered into the system.

You can not just pretend that the title does not exist & try something new.

You may be arrested if you try.

 

Same time Ohio can not pretend the legal title does not exist. But they are.

 

So that's my question ... what if you were pulled over in the future, you have legal paper work .... You are guilty of not transfer title in a timely manner. You take the ticket to court ..... What would the Judge do?

 

To be honest I would hate to be in the middle of a dispute between two states.

Have you called DMV in Vermont? .... Maybe they have something in place to satisfy this need.

I sure would hate to get a lawyer involved .... Might be a option.

 

I personally might be tempted to just run it under Vermont plates, I imagine they will renew tags through the mail.

This way you have followed the law and have done nothing wrong. You are only guilty of not transfer title which Ohio chooses to refuse.

 

You have a legal title now. The Vermont loophole is a legal process. You can drive that truck legally in any state of the union. Ohio can not charge you with a unregistered or illegal car. .... I'm Sure they can make something up.

 

Another option I might do, sell the truck to my brother in a different state, provide a bill of sale let him transfer the title, then sell it back to me with a bill of sale.

 

This is simply a pissing match between two different states.

Vermont figured out how to create legal tax revenue, Ohio is pissed off they got beat out of tax $$

You have followed the law & now stuck in the middle of their feud.

Time will tell if the Vermont loophole continues .... right now it is legal. You are Grandfathered  or... stuck with it.

 

 

That's how I view it right now also. It is frustrating, but at the same time, I put myself in this situation....