Clutch question

[Nigel Bailey]

Hi all,

         although the clutch free play on my recently acquired 1948 D25 seems about right, the clutch itself only engages in literally the last 1/3" of travel, ie., when the pedal is almost fully out. I have the correct (Australian) service manual for my car, but it only seems to mention free play adjustment-is there any way of adjusting the clutch engagement point, or does this simply mean the clutch is on the way out? I've never done any work with clutches before and am very new to the world of old Mopars, but I'm keen to learn along the way and (so far) am enjoying the journey! Any advice would be greatly appreciated-no doubt I'll be back on the forum again if it turns out I have to attempt my first clutch replacement! Cheers,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Nigel Bailey

[DJK]

I installed a new disc and throw out bearing, resurfaced flywheel, reused pressure plate(I'm cheap). With proper free play adjustment, clutch engages near top., been that way for 3k miles, no issues. 52 Cranbrook

Edited November 6, 2020 by DJK

[Andydodge]

Nigel.........going on my memory.......which maybe is not such a good idea ............the clutch in the 41 Plymouth I had operated in a similar manner, it took up only in the last half/third of travel...............however as I sold the car 6yrs ago its getting hard to be absolutely certain............lol..........how does the car drive?..........does the clutch allow proper gear changes?..........does it disengage the clutch when the pedal is pressed?..........andyd

[Slickster]

Increase your freeplay and see how it goes....too much freeplay and the clutch won't disengage, making for difficult shifting, too little and the throwout bearing stays touching the pressure plate wearing both out, or, not letting the clutch fully engage, then it slips....a couple of turns more freeplay, go for a drive....

[Dan Hiebert]

The "last third" or so is right for these cars.  As long as your free play is adjusted to specifications you'll be OK.  And that's a regular check to ensure things are copacetic as the clutch wears, not a once and done thing.  The clutch will start slipping and/or chattering when it's too worn to do its job.  There are other considerations, but it sounds like you're just concerned about where it engages, which seems a bit sloppy compared to modern cars, but is good for our era. 

[Sniper]

I always set my clutch up for departure and let free play be where it is, as long as it doesn't ride on the throwout bearing.

 

Setting freeplay takes one mechanic, setting departure takes two, so the factory prefers to pay half the price and it's generally good enough.

 

Essentially, one person mats the clutch the other measures the distance between the pressure plate/flywheel and the clutch disc.  I go for .060" clearance, but that can be varied somewhat.  Release the pedal and make sure you have clearance between the throwout bearing the the clutch fingers.  Done.  This ensures that regardless how much wear is on the disc it performs the same and it also accounts for any wear in the linkages.  Freeplay method could just be all wear .

 

If your freeplay setup seems to be in the ballpark but the clutch is slipping or feels off double check the departure. 

 

[Nigel Bailey]

Thanks; I probably wasn’t clear enough earlier: take-up is not until the last third of an inch, not of overall travel. Clutch does not engage until the pedal is virtually all the way out. Hard to tell, but there is probably a tiny bit of judder on take up. I haven’t driven the car any distance because the brakes are my next job! Sounds like increase the free play a fraction and go from there?

    

[Nigel Bailey]

Thanks Sniper-sorry if this is an obvious question, but how would I go about measuring the departure as you suggested? 

[Dodgeb4ya]

Disc is probably worn out. Pull the lower cover and measure disc thickness...compare to service manual spec.

[Slickster]

It's not worn out until it slips....

[Sniper]

there should be a cover on the bottom of the bellhousing you can remove.  Remove it, have someone floor the clutch pedal and using feeler gauges measure the gap between  he clutch disc and the flywheel or pressure plate.  That is your departure.  More departure means the clutch engages towards the top of the pedal travel, less departure means it engages towards the bottom of the pedal travel.  You obviously need some departure so the clutch disengages and you also need clearance between the throwout bearing and the pressure plate with the pedal at the top of the travel (no foot on the pedal).  I set my muscle car era clutches at .060", which is where I like it in regards to pedal travel but you might want to vary that to accommodate the earlier setups and your liking for clutch engagement.  

 

In the setup on the right of the picture below you are measuring the gap created then the release bearing is pushing in on the pressure plate.

 

 

 

[knuckleharley]

First of all,I want to welcome you to the friendliest and most informative auto web-page on the net. I am positive someone will soon provide you with the info you need.

[Nigel Bailey]

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply, everyone (and for the diagram Sniper-I get what you mean now)!  I'd like to contribute to the Forum with help of my own, but am afraid I'm going to just have to be a sponge for a while while I learn the ropes. Hopefully in the not too distant future there'll be one more old mopar alive and kicking, and back on the road in Australia. Cheers.

[rallyace]

Welcome to the forum where many of us with far too much time on our hands and will answer your questions to the best of our ability. There is a lot of good info here. Use the search function to look up anything you need to research. One hint, don't ask what oil to use. That one has been beaten to death far too many times here. Just search 'what oil' and you will see what I mean. It also helps to have a bit of thick skin as we have been known to be sarcastic at times. Good luck with your project.

 

[Sniper]

I run conventional 10w30 oil ?

[plymouthcranbrook]

Sarcastic?  Us?  Say it isn’t so.

[maddmaxx1949]

Is there any update on this Nigel? I am having a similar issue with mine currently.

[Nigel Bailey]

On 7/5/2021 at 9:54 AM, maddmaxx1949 said:

Is there any update on this Nigel? I am having a similar issue with mine currently.

Hi maddmaxx,

                        I have currently got the Dodge off the road as my 'freshen up' has turned into more of a 'rolling restoration'.  Currently also have the pedals removed, as the brake master cylinder is off for overhaul. I did manage to get a slightly earlier take-up by adjusting the free-play, however the next step will probably be having a go at the departure gap as Sniper suggested. I also have a new clutch disc ready to go in should investigations reveal too much wear. Will keep you posted when I get back to the clutch! Cheers,

                       Nigel

[Ivan_B]

Resurrecting this old topic

I am having the same issue where the clutch appears to be engaging too late, when the pedal is already released all the way up. Free play appears to be correct, although, I am not sure how free it really is, because the return spring is somewhat hard ?

I did not attempt to add some more free play, yet, because it is somewhat difficult to get to the adjustment nut on the push rod. Since I am there, I might take the off the bell housing cover and take a look at the disk and fly wheel as well.

 

My question is: how do I adjust the space between the flywheel-disk-plate? Using the same free play adjustment nut on the fork push rod with the pedal pressed all the way to the floor?

[Dave72dt]

You don't adjust that space. You only adjust the free play.  Any space that happens between the flywheel-disc- pressure plate happens automatically when the clutch pedal is depressed.  Free play goes away as the disc wears and will engage farther ups.  Sounds like the clutch is on the verge of slipping.  You may need to physically see if there is free play between the pressure plate fingers and the throw out bearing.  I prefer pressing the pedal with my hand instead of my foot to check free play.  It's easier to feel the transition from free play to actual pressure plate movement.

[Los_Control]

28 minutes ago, Ivan_B said:

My question is: how do I adjust the space between the flywheel-disk-plate? Using the same free play adjustment nut on the fork push rod with the pedal pressed all the way to the floor?

I do not believe you can if I understand the question correctly.

This is a 1951 Ford clutch, I assume it is very close to our mopar clutches ..... I have not yet had the pleasure to look at mine.

 

The clutch disk has geared teeth that rides on the transmission shaft .... The disk spins with the transmission while the vehicle is in motion.

The pressure plate forces pressure to the disk forcing pressure on the flywheel .... When you use the clutch that removes the pressure and allows the disk to spin freely.

The only real adjustments here is the springs, They are color coded .... red ones like mine are considered a dump truck clutch because the springs are very stiff .... blue springs are softer and for a car.  Then the arms are shimmed from the factory to adjust where the throw out bearing contacts them ..... basically all you get to play with on a pressure plate.

 

Basically like @Dave72dt suggest, the only adjustment we get to play with is on the end of the clutch pedal.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sniper]

Plate departure is a more accurate setting than pedal free play.  I usually shoot for .060" gap with the pedal to the floor and let free play be whatever it is.  The adjustment is the same, linkage.  Just measuring a different parameter is all.

 

Now I will grant that I have not, yet, done this on my 51 so I have no idea how difficult it might be to measure that gap.

[Ivan_B]

12 hours ago, Dave72dt said:

You don't adjust that space. You only adjust the free play.

 

12 hours ago, Los_Control said:

the only adjustment we get to play with is on the end of the clutch pedal.

Okay, I was under impression that Sniper commented about adjusting that, in this same thread 3 years ago (and today) with the same linkage. I'll try both ways and see what happens.

 

1 hour ago, Sniper said:

I have no idea how difficult it might be to measure that gap.

I suspect that with the cover removed, I should be able to see the clutch disk and hopefully stick a feeler gauge in there

 

12 hours ago, Dave72dt said:

You may need to physically see if there is free play between the pressure plate fingers and the throw out bearing. 

Good Idea, I'll take a look at everything over the weekend.

Thanks.

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Ivan_B

[Ivan_B]

Okay, I went underneath the car and got dirty, today ?

Turned out I had no pedal free play. I adjusted the clutch push-rod and now I have a bit too much free play, but it will wear itself out eventually. I also noticed that the parking brake cable was touching the clutch pedal rod and the shifter cable was touching the clutch fork. Sorry for the poor picture, too close...

 

 

Not sure whether or not this was a factory setup, but I re-routed both of these cables...

 

Also adjusted the parking brake while I was in there. The friction surface is almost gone on top (improper adjustment). It still holds the car, but I got to get it replaced next time

Edited November 11, 2023 by Ivan_B

[Nigel Bailey]

On 7/5/2021 at 9:54 AM, maddmaxx1949 said:

Is there any update on this Nigel? I am having a similar issue with mine currently.

On 7/6/2021 at 9:04 PM, Nigel Bailey said:

Hi maddmaxx,

                        I have currently got the Dodge off the road as my 'freshen up' has turned into more of a 'rolling restoration'.  Currently also have the pedals removed, as the brake master cylinder is off for overhaul. I did manage to get a slightly earlier take-up by adjusting the free-play, however the next step will probably be having a go at the departure gap as Sniper suggested. I also have a new clutch disc ready to go in should investigations reveal too much wear. Will keep you posted when I get back to the clutch! Cheers,

                       Nigel