Hot rod 1938 Plymouth

[grubby65]

I'm looking at purchasing a 1938 Plymouth that is in my opinion very unique.  It looks like most Hot Rods, but instead of the usual Small Block Chevy swap the builder elected to stay with the 230 cu. in. Flat Head six.  It is about a six hour drive to go look at it, so I was wanting to get some opinions on what the members though the performance might be like.  I'm familiar with this vintage of Chrysler products and expected cruising speed, but if I'm going to buy a car that looks like this I would like to be able to cruise at 75 mph, but I don't know if that is realistic.  It has dual carburetors and it has a 5-speed manual transmission out of an S-10.  It also has air conditioning.  I know it is impossible to predict horsepower without knowing how the actual motor was built.

1938-plymouth-coupe-street-rod.jfif 1938-plymouth-coupe-street-rod (1).jfif

[keithb7]

Those attachments won't open for me. I am interested to see what was done to this car. I'm imagining 75 mph speeds in a car that was never engineered to likely go over 55, could have some serious safety issues.

Edited March 17, 2020 by keithb7

[Plymouthy Adams]

I was going to paste the phot but one alone exceeds the space allotted.  Extremely busy under the hood.....

[Los_Control]

[Plymouthy Adams]

17 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

Those attachments won't open for me. I am interested to see what was done to this car. I'm imagining 75 mph speeds in a car that was never engineered to likely go over 55, could have some serious safety issues.

I feel very certain that the suspension and brake issues has been visited on this build....the only limiting factor is that 230 itself...

[Veemoney]

Nice looking car. I think your best info is going to come from the current owner as he should know the OD output and rear axle gearing along with his cruising experience at speed and on hills. 

1 hour ago, grubby65 said:

I'm familiar with this vintage of Chrysler products

 

[greg g]

Is that a faux fin overlay on the head??  Doesn't look like ant after market aluminum head I have ever seen.  Is it a 201, 218 or 230?  You said stick with the 230 bit stock was a 85 up 201.  Plymouths didn't get230 till mid 54.  Most had 411 or 3.99 rear ends.  So maybe 60 mph cruise with some bursts to 70 for passing but unless there is a different gear set or an overdrive in it 70 Al day cruising will not likely be in the picture. Can you get the seller to give you the engine number stamped into the block above the generator. That will give a better indication of what's in it.

[keithb7]

https://www.uniquemankato.com/vehicles/1477/1938-plymouth-coupe-street-rod

[keithb7]

Hopefully not hy-jacking the thread, away from the original question. That is a nice looking car. 

 

Front and rear suspension looks like stock type leaf system on all corners. My stock 38 axle is I-beam type, this one appears tube.  Diff carrier looks maybe stock type however upgraded rear drums appear more modern. Spacer blocks used to lower.

 

There is a ton of good work here. Thinking about the time invested, wow.

[kencombs]

2 hours ago, keithb7 said:

Those attachments won't open for me. I am interested to see what was done to this car. I'm imagining 75 mph speeds in a car that was never engineered to likely go over 55, could have some serious safety issues.

Windows photos couldn't open for me, but Irfanview worked.  Weird extension on the file though, even irfanview complained but opened anyway.

 

I'd sure like to see a good view of the a/c and alt belt/pulley setup.

Edited March 17, 2020 by kencombs

[blucarsdn]

The pic attachments won't open for me so I have to rely on what I can see and read from the other attachments.

From my point of view I see a vehicle that might have more problems in lieu of a vehicle that you can drive and enjoy.

I have been building, rebuilding vintage vehicles since I was 14, I believe in the KISS principle, "keep it simple stupid".

When I found my '39 Plym conv sitting in an open field in Montana, I had to have the car. It was dead stock, put in bad shape. I did two years of research before I touched a bolt in the car. I wanted a good driver that would safely run at freeway speeds with creature comforts. I avoided all of the "Old School" thinking, using donor parts from the wrecking yards, sadly I used a new SBC engine and trans, the reason being that the Mopar world generally can not think anything but Hemi. I now know that there are several late model small block Chrysler engines, 318's, 340's, etc.,

The car I ended up with was, is just what I wanted, on two occasions I have had to do an emergency stop or evasive action due to traffic, in both cases the modern front/rear suspension and disk brakes saved the day. Wm.

[Bobb Horn]

I have my 38 Coupe for over 30 years now.      218 Chrysler flathead, with a Ford Ranger 5 speed, 3.73 rearend.     My 38 will cruise all day at 65mph, thanks to the 5 speed/3.73 rear.      It  has plenty of power to go faster, but with the condition of the suspension,  stock brakes, I choose not to at this time.     I think a 3.55 rear would be a good improvement for my 38, as well as a 230 with a 2V carb.     My Coupe will never be a "show car", but I can run with the group all day.  

[Sniper]

My 38 had a tube front axle.  It appears they flipped the front springs over to lower it.  I don't know if that's a good thing.  I wonder how rough that ride is?

 

Those rear drums look like Buick finned aluminum ones.  So-Cal makes covers that mimic the look, so they may not be upgraded at all. 

 

https://www.est1946.com/so-calspeedshopaluminumdrumcovers.aspx

 

Looks like the condenser for the AC is mounted to the bottom side of the trunk, wonder how well that works?  I live in west Texas so mediocre AC is something you notice real quick.

 

Looks like 17's for rims/tires.  Looks proportional and tasteful to me.  I like the Plymouth center caps.

 

Looks like the heat and AC controls are hidden behind the seat?  Spare tire too, I'd hate to grunt that out of there if I had a flat, lol.

 

Body looks real good as does the interior, except that driver's side door panel looks like it might have some (water?) damage on the backer board?  Might want to look close at the weatherstripping there if so.

 

If you get it try to get as detailed as possible information on what was done.  Yes it appears to have front discs, but when it's time to do a brake job you need to know what parts to get, that kind of thing.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[keithb7]

Mine’s Canadian build. So maybe they used the I-beam axle. My stock front axle has upper side leaf spring mounts. However no spacer blocks, as the one for sale does.  Mine seen here:

have no idea why its posting upside down lol. 
 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by keithb7

[Sniper]

I felt like a bat trying to look at that, lol.

[keithb7]

Thanks. Could only do so much with my iphone to fix it. 

[Young Ed]

8 hours ago, greg g said:

Is that a faux fin overlay on the head??  Doesn't look like ant after market aluminum head I have ever seen.  Is it a 201, 218 or 230?  You said stick with the 230 bit stock was a 85 up 201.  Plymouths didn't get230 till mid 54.  Most had 411 or 3.99 rear ends.  So maybe 60 mph cruise with some bursts to 70 for passing but unless there is a different gear set or an overdrive in it 70 Al day cruising will not likely be in the picture. Can you get the seller to give you the engine number stamped into the block above the generator. That will give a better indication of what's in it.

 

This one has a T5 so 70 shouldn't be an issue.

 

6 hours ago, blucarsdn said:

The pic attachments won't open for me so I have to rely on what I can see and read from the other attachments.

From my point of view I see a vehicle that might have more problems in lieu of a vehicle that you can drive and enjoy.

I have been building, rebuilding vintage vehicles since I was 14, I believe in the KISS principle, "keep it simple stupid".

When I found my '39 Plym conv sitting in an open field in Montana, I had to have the car. It was dead stock, put in bad shape. I did two years of research before I touched a bolt in the car. I wanted a good driver that would safely run at freeway speeds with creature comforts. I avoided all of the "Old School" thinking, using donor parts from the wrecking yards, sadly I used a new SBC engine and trans, the reason being that the Mopar world generally can not think anything but Hemi. I now know that there are several late model small block Chrysler engines, 318's, 340's, etc.,

The car I ended up with was, is just what I wanted, on two occasions I have had to do an emergency stop or evasive action due to traffic, in both cases the modern front/rear suspension and disk brakes saved the day. Wm.

 

 

Looks like original style suspension but it does have disk brakes 

[lepic56]

WOW VERY NICE, 

155HP from a streetable 230 is pretty sensational. You do not state exactly what year you started with but most were around 100 HP (103 in 1950) up to a max of 132 in 1957 with high compression and 2 barrel carb.

You may be impressed with the performance on the street. The old flatheads with their long stroke, broad powerband and high torque at low to medium RPMs "punch above their weight" in everyday driving. Especially in traffic and on hills. Not so much in top speed.

[mrwrstory]

Looks like a nice car,.....with all the cautions as mentioned above.  However, $29K is way over priced in my opinion.  The collector car prices are way down, and more so for the less popular brands.  I could accept that the owner easily has $30K into it but to me $15K is a more realistic starting price. I'm asking only half of what I have into my P15 and have had minimal nibbles.  Go to classiccars.com and look for comparables.  

Edited March 20, 2020 by mrwrstory

[Bobb Horn]

On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2020 at 11:16 AM, lepic56 said:

You may be impressed with the performance on the street. The old flatheads with their long stroke, broad powerband and high torque at low to medium RPMs "punch above their weight" in everyday driving. Especially in traffic and on hills. Not so much in top speed.

 

"Not so much in top speed",,,,,,that is where the 5 speed trans makes a big improvement......

[blucarsdn]

When I reviewed the latest pic attachment I was able to arrive at a better opinion of the car.. In some respects the car has good curb appeal, however, I noted several things that lead me to believe that the car was built to a budget, in lieu of quality. ie; radios hanging off of the bottom of the dash, a tach of doubtful origin attached to the  steering column and the biggest mistake, heat/ac unit blowing form the back seat towards the passengers neck with the controls hidden behind the seat which would require the passenger to move out of the seat to access the controls.

The biggest items that I find suspect is the stock suspension with disk brakes, inverted springs and a stock engine cooling system. I wonder why did the original builder use a '36 engine in lieu of of a more modern flat-head, something from the '50's? As it has been pointed out, why an original rear end with what appears to be "Buick" decoy drums.

I attached the pix's of my '39 conv cpe as a an example of what a Resto-Mod can look like with a little thought. Wm.    

[scruff]

My 48 coupe has 218+.60 over two carbs duals  and 3.73 dif. and o/d. It will cruse 65+ all day long