600 16 ?? What is bias ply

[rcl700]

I'm looking for information on what tires go on stock p15 16" rims. 

I'm looking at the current tires listing 6.00 16.

Are there modern tires that would fit these cars. Mine are not white wall but I like the look for these cars. 

Are there tunes used on these tires? 

 

I know these questions may sound bumb but these are real questions. 

What are type of tires are yall running? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bryan G]

6.00-16 was a very, very popular size from the late 30s-early 50s. I believe 6 simply means 6 inches wide, on, of course, a 16 inch wheel. Bias ply,  meaning the reinforcing belts under the tread run at angles, rather than a radial tire where they all run crosswise from side to side. Not hard to find photos online to explain that. I had an old Ford and ran that size for years. Totally different from a modern tire, and it takes some getting used to. The handling is what I would call "squirrely". All bias tires are like that, to some extent, but a wider one is better. Personally, I like look of a bias and like keeping things original, but it is a sacrifice. Radials are often less expensive, they'll last longer, and ride/handling are superior. I'm not sure what I'll do when I have to replace the set on my Chrysler.

[rcl700]

16 minutes ago, Bryan G said:

6.00-16 was a very, very popular size from the late 30s-early 50s. I believe 6 simply means 6 inches wide, on, of course, a 16 inch wheel. Bias ply,  meaning the reinforcing belts under the tread run at angles, rather than a radial tire where they all run crosswise from side to side. Not hard to find photos online to explain that. I had an old Ford and ran that size for years. Totally different from a modern tire, and it takes some getting used to. The handling is what I would call "squirrely". All bias tires are like that, to some extent, but a wider one is better. Personally, I like look of a bias and like keeping things original, but it is a sacrifice. Radials are often less expensive, they'll last longer, and ride/handling are superior. I'm not sure what I'll do when I have to replace the set on my Chrysler.

So.. if replacing with radial tires, is there a modern size that (example 24570r 17)

That fits these rims and car or keep to the 600 16 sizing? 

[TodFitch]

I am not well schooled in translating different tire sizes so take this with a grain of salt.

 

The number after the "R" is the rim in inches. So that will be the same as the "16" on your "600-16" tires.

 

Many (most?) of the tires of that era had an aspect ratio of 80% to 85%. I think that is the second number on the modern sizes. So you are looking at ???/85R16.

 

Not sure but I think a 600-16 typically had about a 28" to 28.5" "mounted diameter". Looking at a tire calculator website and playing with some numbers to get the diameter right. I think a 185/85R16 would be close. If they make it. That site suggests a 205/75R16 as a possible substitute. It is over 3/4" wider than the 600-16 so there might be some clearance problems and it is not clear to me if it would require a wider rim.

 

Looking at the usual antique tire websites (Lucas, Coker, Diamondback, etc.), I think some of them have radial tires listed in the old style sizing. You might want to check on those options (might be more expensive than the discount tire place down the road from you).

 

Speaking of the discount tire shop down the road from you, if it is a good one they can probably help you figure out a modern size that will fit your rims and have enough clearance on your suspension.

[plymouthcranbrook]

Regarding Ply:

 

https://simpletire.com/learn/tire-maintenance-safety/tire-ply

[SteveR]

I am running the 205/75R16 tire. I also am using a tube in the tire as well. What I have noticed is that if parked it is a bear to turn the steering wheel. So I have to move the car and even then it is hard. At 10mph though there is no problem and of course at 50-60mph it is like driving a normal car.

 

I always use to run bias-ply on my 65 Barracuda back in the early 70s and had no problems turning the steering wheel even at a stop but then they were only 13" rims.

The problem I noticed with my 37 Plymouth is a cross wind at 50-60 mph. 2 hands on the wheel is a necessity and you do get moved around a bit. I wonder what it would be like with Bias-ply tires?

[Sniper]

https://www.cokertire.com/tires/16-6_00_1.html

[chris 48 P15]

i to am looking for new tires 

there is info on this in the tech section on top of this page

look at coker tire website for info 

sniper beet me to the punch

[Sniper]

 

4 minutes ago, chris 48 P15 said:

sniper beet me to the punch

 

Sorry

[harmony]

Everyone's likes and dislikes are different. I drive vintage cars because I like everything about the looks and experience.  Well, driving in an ice storm, up hill while trying to keep the windshield clear with vacuum wipers isn't actually an enjoyable experience, but for the post part, I like and enjoy older technology.  I prefer bias ply tires over radials, because they are part of the experience.  They are a rough ride, and going down the road with one fingertip control, just doesn't happen. 

"Hang on for the ride".

 

As already mentioned, bias ply are much easier for parking.  Like comparing rolling a soccer ball vs a balloon full of water.

But since they retain a stiff profile, if you do happen to get a slow leak, once it becomes noticeable to the eye, you probably only have about 5 lbs. of pressure in the tire.

[gwaggonercpa]

From the AACA forum:

 

https://forums.aaca.org/topic/259866-what-radial-tire-size-equivalent-are-you-using-for-your-16-tires/

[Sniper]

I don't get the hard to park radial tire claim.  I run radials on my 51.  I can park it just fine.  My 5'7" 135lb  yo son can park it, though his guns are about a third the size of mine so he does struggle a bit, lol.  He should spend a couple of years climbing wind turbines.  Heck, I ran into a petite older lady at the grocery store who came over to me and asked me if it was a 51 Plymouth, which surprised me  Apparently back in her HS days she used to drive one all over the place with her friends. 

 

I am working on fitting a set of P255/50R17's up front, maybe that'll teach me, lol.

[Bryan G]

I suppose the steering dynamics vary a lot from vehicle to vehicle, and some models will tolerate a radial better than others for low speed maneuvers. I've had 6.00-16s on a car and it steered so easy in a parking lot that it made one wonder why power steering was ever invented. But I also had a big old Packard with radials and they really weren't bad at all. On the other hand, I had a full-size pickup from the 70s with manual steering and installed radials. That thing steered so hard in a parking lot that it was downright dangerous. I nearly broke a finger one day at the post office when the wheel kicked back! I believe at the narrow size found on those Plymouths, radials probably wouldn't be all that bad. Remember that 6.50-16 was another popular size, so the extra width isn't crazy. 

 

I'll also say, I've never bought a new set of 6.00-16's. The car I had with them badly needed a set (had some cheap truck tires made in Korea that were 25 years old and cracking badly; nylon cord that would flatspot overnight.) I found a guy who "upgraded" to radials and sold me a set with 50% tread for $90. When they were worn out I found another guy, same story except these were so new they still had the nibs. Just this week someone had a set of 5 on my local Marketplace, on Chevy rims, $200 for the set. If they aren't cracked up, you can run an older bias tire. They don't fall apart like radials do.

[Ulu]

My international Harvester half ton pickup truck had 6.00-16 bias ply tires on it. That was a long time ago. Split rims too!

 

I remember getting booted out of a motorcycle club, because I had to tell the “head mechanic/engineer” what the word radial meant. (His description of radial and bias ply was completely backwards.) Some people would rather be wrong and happy than know the truth. Even well-to-do professional men on expensive chrome plated motorcycles.

 

When I got my Plymouth P-15 it was a customized lowrider and had new 5.50-15 Volkswagen tires on it. Cheap Perelli radials made out in Hanford California back in those days. It drug the lake pipes in a corner, so I took out the lowering blocks, jacked up the rear springs, and put some fat Firestone 721 radials on the back. It had Rake! 

 

The front Springs had been lowered a bit so you might say that handling was interesting. I did not find it difficult at all. But it was a bit rough, and eventually I bought a set of Goodyear L78-15 bias ply tires for it. I leveled the suspension too. I thought they made the car much more smooth and comfortable to drive, but of course they didn’t last very long compared to radial tires.

 

The engine had been hopped up on the car and I used to drive it as fast as it would go much of the time. I think the best it ever handled it was when I put a set of used low profile Michelin-x radials on it that had been taken off of a Porsche.

 

I used to have to drive from the country into town every day, so it was kind of “Dukes of Hazzard time” out there in the dirt. The Plymouth was a very tractable car and I never had any problems with it wanting to swap ends or roll over, or hop around unpredictably at speed.

 

It always went where I wanted it to and it always got where I was going. I never had it towed once.

 

Running radial tires, I used to get it almost up on two wheels sailing around the last corner towards the parking lot at work. That used to impress people. Me too.

 

The truth is that when I bought that car I had no idea how much more impressive it was in operation, than other cars of that era I was to come into contact with later.

[keithb7]

One of my ‘38 cars has bias. They are brand new Cokers that I ordered. My other ‘38 car has white wall radials. Bias size and look, but radials. I don’t notice the difference any more. I must have just gotten used to the way each car handles. I too like the original driving experience of bias. Its fun. No complaints. 

Edited March 25, 2023 by keithb7

[Booger]

My 2 cents. dont put a modern tire on those old tired rims. factory spec "steelies" are out there for $100 ea.

[Marcel Backs]

Excelcior makes a 6.00 R 16 which looks pretty good. Black wall only. Also check Diamond Back radial tires for white walls. I will be putting radials on my D-14 due to advantages in handling which they have. Bias tires do not work very well on cracked, uneven rural roads. M

[rcl700]

What do yall think look best on the p15s

White walls or all black?

If white walls, big strip  or thin? 

 

*Please post pictures of your cars and how they look with various tire types and sizes. ?

[SteveR]

26 minutes ago, rcl700 said:

What do yall think look best on the p15s

White walls or all black?

I think that is a person preference. My car is a cream color with cream wheels. I do not think a whitewall tire would look good. Too much white. However, if the car is a dark color a white wall would look good. there are plenty of cars on the internet to look at as well. What are you leaning towards?

When in doubt I always ask my Wife. Sorry, she only tell me what.... I mean consults with me. She is the reason I bought this particular car in the first place. Im glad I listened to her.

[Dan Hiebert]

On 3/24/2023 at 5:54 AM, SteveR said:

I am running the 205/75R16 tire. I also am using a tube in the tire as well. What I have noticed is that if parked it is a bear to turn the steering wheel. So I have to move the car and even then it is hard. At 10mph though there is no problem and of course at 50-60mph it is like driving a normal car.

 

I always use to run bias-ply on my 65 Barracuda back in the early 70s and had no problems turning the steering wheel even at a stop but then they were only 13" rims.

The problem I noticed with my 37 Plymouth is a cross wind at 50-60 mph. 2 hands on the wheel is a necessity and you do get moved around a bit. I wonder what it would be like with Bias-ply tires?

Learned from my dear ol' Dad when I was learning how to drive some of the differences between radial and bias ply tires.  I was learning to drive in an IH Scout and a Ford Pinto.  Scout had bias plies, the Pinto had radials.  The low speed or stopped turning was one lesson, radials being harder to turn when stopped than bias ply.  What I was taught was if you have radials, get the vehicle moving a bit before trying to turn the wheels; and bias plies would always turn easier regardless.  The Pinto only had 13" tires, too, and was a light car, but it was the lesson that was learned, not the actual feat.  He didn't tell me why at the time, but that wasn't necessary.  

 

Your '37 wouldn't handle any better in windy conditions at highway speeds with bias ply tires.  Probably worse, since there's a smaller contact patch with the road and stiffer sidewalls.  But it's not so much the tires as the car having the aerodynamics of a chicken coop and 86 year old engineering.  We have a '37 Terraplane with bias ply tires.  It's a tad sleeker than a Plymouth, and it'll zip happily down the road at 50-60, but it gets downright grumpy when the wind is up.

[rcl700]

On 3/24/2023 at 1:22 AM, TodFitch said:

I am not well schooled in translating different tire sizes so take this with a grain of salt.

 

The number after the "R" is the rim in inches. So that will be the same as the "16" on your "600-16" tires.

 

Many (most?) of the tires of that era had an aspect ratio of 80% to 85%. I think that is the second number on the modern sizes. So you are looking at ???/85R16.

 

Not sure but I think a 600-16 typically had about a 28" to 28.5" "mounted diameter". Looking at a tire calculator website and playing with some numbers to get the diameter right. I think a 185/85R16 would be close. If they make it. That site suggests a 205/75R16 as a possible substitute. It is over 3/4" wider than the 600-16 so there might be some clearance problems and it is not clear to me if it would require a wider rim.

 

Looking at the usual antique tire websites (Lucas, Coker, Diamondback, etc.), I think some of them have radial tires listed in the old style sizing. You might want to check on those options (might be more expensive than the discount tire place down the road from you).

 

Speaking of the discount tire shop down the road from you, if it is a good one they can probably help you figure out a modern size that will fit your rims and have enough clearance on your suspension.

Question, I have seen tubed mentioned a few times, why would these be needed?

Is it necessary swapping from bias ply to radial? 

 

[keithb7]

My personal thoughts on whitewall or black wall tires:

 

In 1938 the Chrysler was a fairly premium model. People who were pretty well-off was likely the target buyer. The bank manager might be an example. I like to think they would probably be more inclined to pay a premium for whitewalls. 
 

 

The Plymouth was the low price entry level model in the Mopar line up. The shoe salesman might have been more likely to buy one. Less bling. Fewer features. I tend to believe they would be less likely to pay extra for whitewall tires. This is why I have equipped my cars as such. 
 

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by keithb7

[harmony]

2 hours ago, rcl700 said:

Question, I have seen tubed mentioned a few times, why would these be needed?

Is it necessary swapping from bias ply to radial? 

I know that they do offer tubes for radials, but I'm not sure about the principal behind that.    If you have a way of getting the existing tires off the rims, I'd suggest inspecting them closely and getting any corrosion and rust, off the lips and any other place you see rust, yourself.  The tire shop will probably do that if they are a good shop, and charge you the extra labour of course.  But if they have a greenhorn working the tire machine they might forget to do that., and one day you might be on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck.

If you decide to go with bias ply tires, and get tubes,  I suggest you get the flaps for them as well.  It helps protect the tubes.  Go with the 7" flaps as opposed to the 5" flaps.  When ordering the tubes, check to make sure you order the correct stem for your rims, and when the order arrives, double check to make sure they sent the right tubes. There is usually one letter or number difference between a straight stem and an offset stem.  First go round they sent me the wrong ones.  Even though the correct part number was on the work order.  Whoever picked the order at Coker, just wasn't paying attention. 

 

I was just noticing your close up picture of the sizing on your tire.  It kind of looks like a 5 to me and not a 6 for the width. 

[SteveR]

My understanding is that the rims of a 37 at least, will not bead seal a radial tire. You might want to check that out before ordering radials without a tube.

[keithb7]

I’m not convinced a steel rim that was designed for bias tires is safe for use with a modern tubeless radial tire.  I feel safer with a tube in there, behind the radial when used on an older rim.  Tires that bulge and flex, absorb bumps, (radials) I think are transferring different loads and stresses to the rim. A rim designed for bis tires may be compromised over time with a radial tire on it?  Wondering here, not sure on the facts.