Anti-skid paint additive....

[Plymouthy Adams]

I knew I would be eventually placing a top coat of paint either in matching color or contrasting semi-gloss black....I have so little resources in my area for finding additives.  Seems the local carries but the one brand supplied by their default paint jobber (Valspar) and it is a polymer and not sand/pumice.   I am thinking pumice would be the better ingredient but have not ever used it either.  Wish to mix into Rustoleum oil based paint for application,  anyone here with experience in anti skid additives?  My alignment lift is smooth finish all about and as it was very much void of paint when I received it...I have no idea if or what may have been applied at one time.  Pulling up onto the ramps with damp/wet tires causes traction loss.   What have others here used and how has it held up?  thanks....

Edited February 7, 2021 by Plymouthy Adams

[Los_Control]

Not what you are asking, could be a simple easy fix and replaceable as needed.

 

Watching a welding channel on youtube, guy built a nice tilt deck equipment trailer. Get 1/2 way up and tires would start spinning and things go sideways fast.

He welded angle iron on the ramps for cleats ...he was loading tractors & back hoes etc ... not what you want.  But maybe can use the idea and 1/2" rebar? Have any expanded metal laying around?

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

Looking more for a coating and not a welded set of cleats as I wish to coat the entire length of the runways...these runways have 6 removable plates per runway....one is a slip plate and of course the approach ramps make it 7  for the overall coating needed....want to keep this neat and attractive along with practical for use.

 

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Plymouthy Adams

[Frank Elder]

I used black diamond sand blasting media mixed in with rustoleum on a set of trailer ramps and it worked fine. Painted the ramps broadcast the sand like chicken feed, let the first coat gas out then added another thin coat of paint.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Frank Elder

[Plymouthy Adams]

thanks for the input Frankie, this sounds like the typical process......black diamond is a great blasting aggregate....I may have a bag of this on hand yet...but I am not sure of the grit....I have hundreds of pounds of bagged sand blasting silica sand on hand also and it is considered a 30 grit and would yield a fair texture....have read mixed reviews on the mix in paint then apply, apply paint, sprinkle with sand and recoat....would like to do this task but once.....learn from others and not so much as cause and effect...I have done textured inside coatings...am sure it is basically the same but using sand you dealing with weight and separation....using polymers they may stay suspended in the paint but they would in my opinion still provide a tad less "grip" effective finish and as I have no experience with the polymers....thus the question....what is most effective and long lasting media.   How long has your coating been in place and does it see much use.  Being on this lift I have rebuilt, I need a bit of non skid properties for sure and it will see a fair bit of traffic.   I would think non skidding a shop floor has been done here by someone also which would be about the same thing.  

[Dan Hiebert]

Would spray on or roll on truck bed liner work?  Pretty rugged, should hold up pretty well.  Relatively easy to touch up, too.

[Plymouthy Adams]

well our own Dodgeb4ya sent me a picture of a BendPak lift as delivered....light blend of sand mixed into the top coat...as this is what it looked like when I bought this lift...there was zero sign of any original finish on the runways or the approach ramps.....

 

I also want to give him credit for the capture cable mod that contains the coiled air lines for the jacks neatly to the side of the ramp out of your way and keeps them safe from damage also....he also made a number of checks on his lift for me as I put this one together......big thanks to Rob....!!

 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Plymouthy Adams

[linus6948]

I would go with 70 Grit Aluminum Oxide Blast Media

 

https://www.harborfreight.com/25-lb-black-aluminum-oxide-70-grit-abrasive-media-61871.html?_br_psugg_q=aluminum+oxide+blast+media

[Frank Elder]

Then you would be encouraging dissimilar or galvanic corrosion where the steel contacts the aluminum under the paint, it won ‘t rust the steel but it will dissolve the grit in spots.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I will operate this only in the light of a full moon and in times when the humidity is less than 74% am sure that will negate any galvanic effect of dissimilar metals...more concerned of the spilled brake fluid and it drawing moisture out of the air and rust my lift right before my eyes....washing it with cactus juice is paramount to good clean anti corrosive environment. ?  As Tudor Turtle would always say, "help me Mr Wizard"

[Tooljunkie]

I spilled some brake fluid on my truck frame yesterday. Krylon black rust paint. Brake fluid didnt eat it. I wiped it up within a couple minutes. Dont think i want to paint my hoist black though. 
my hoist was powder coated. 
total garbage. There was maybe one square foot of the coating that was actually stuck to metal. It all had rust under it. 
i cleaned the entire deck with a needle scaler. Was a horrible job. So now i repaint with tremclad. 
i use it daily and the road salt really gets to it. Much better with the paint now. Paint sealed the metal. 
 

yours is a way nicer hoist,much better for alignments instead of grease plates like i use. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

and your story/experience with powder coat is the number one reason I do not like it what so ever...when powder coat first hit the market and all the rage...some industries rush to accept this with open arms....only later to condemn it for the way it hides issues till you have some serious issues rearing its ugly head....and explain to me why do it at home kits requiring welding to install and finish the fabrication come powder coated...it had to get cut off...it is ruined in the process....just stupid stupid stupid...

[Eneto-55]

I worked doing power coating for around 3 years, and coated several things on my own while there, a pipe wrench, a wheel for my S-10 PU, and a reece style hitch I designed for my 93 Chrysler T&C & had welded up by one of the guys there.  The pipe wrench and the wheel I sent off to be sand-blasted, and that held up much better than the hitch, which was made out of all new steel.  I cleaned up the welds and ground the area a bit, and I think I washed the whole thing down with Xylene before running it through the powder coat line wash system, then coated it black.  It rusted under the paint, and a lot of it came off in huge flakes when the rust finally forced it away from the steel.  I don't know if it would have been a lot better if it had been sand blasted first, but I suspect so, probably better if it wasn't sent through the wash system at all, just painted directly after blasting.  But I'm not a fan of powder coating at all.  I think that it is popular with manufacturers simply because you can package the stuff as soon as it cools after coming out of the oven.  Then they "spin" powder coating as some great durable finish, so the public thinks it's a great feature of whatever they're buying.  I suspect that Rustoleum would hold up better on that hitch than powder.  I worked in electro-plating years ago, and later at the PC place the boss' son-in-law used to brag about how much better PC was than plating.  Since I started a small business I have them manufacture some parts for me, and once since then when I was in there I overheard him telling a customer that she would be better off having her out-door railing made of aluminum, because "powder coated steel will always eventually rust".  There you have it, right out of the horse's mouth, so to speak.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Eneto-55

[Plymouthy Adams]

sometimes I think the popularity comes from 'name dropping' and 'higher cost' has to be better logic....I will stick with tried and true paint as all things will need upkeep....paint allow me to catch this need before extended corrosion render the item in the 'has to be replaced' column  Again, some things can do well powder coated...others do not....guess there is room for both but for sure paint will do good always...

[kencombs]

The popularity of powder coating in manufacturing processes  is due to the EPA.   No volatile solvents from paint to deal with.   Same thing that led us to have water borne paints on almost all new cars/trucks.

 

Powder coating can be a good thing.  But, more so than paint, it requires a rigid preparation process.  John Deere had an issue it not adhering properly, rusting underneath and peeling off in sheets on some of their lawn and garden products.  They were following the prep process to a 'T'.  Or so they thought. Turns out that they had started waiting several hours between two steps.  That pause caused the prepped surface to change in some way.  Once that was found the problem, at least that one, was fixed.

[Eneto-55]

3 hours ago, kencombs said:

The popularity of powder coating in manufacturing processes  is due to the EPA.   No volatile solvents from paint to deal with.   Same thing that led us to have water borne paints on almost all new cars/trucks.

 

Powder coating can be a good thing.  But, more so than paint, it requires a rigid preparation process.  John Deere had an issue it not adhering properly, rusting underneath and peeling off in sheets on some of their lawn and garden products.  They were following the prep process to a 'T'.  Or so they thought. Turns out that they had started waiting several hours between two steps.  That pause caused the prepped surface to change in some way.  Once that was found the problem, at least that one, was fixed.

There were things that seemed wrong about the prep process at the place I worked, especially to someone with electro-plating experience.  For instance, leaving the line sit while everyone went on break or left for lunch.  Meanwhile, the parts that happened to be between the wash section and the heat tunnel (for drying) just sat there & rusted.  And we were told to just paint over it.  Also, touching parts after the wash section. 

But I'd be interested to hear what they were doing, and why would you wait between steps in the first place?  One thing that really puzzled me was how could you expect the same wash solution to work for both steel & aluminum?  In plating, you use a completely different series of pre-plating processes for aluminum than you do for steel - different acid, etc.  We used muratic to prep steel, but if you put aluminum in that it would eat it up in short order.  (I also think that we didn't change the wash solution often enough, but they wanted to save money.  In electro-plating work, you cannot take shortcuts like that - get just a bit of oil (off of your skin, or anywhere) on a part before plating and it will show for sure.

[kencombs]

8 minutes ago, Eneto-55 said:

There were things that seemed wrong about the prep process at the place I worked, especially to someone with electro-plating experience.  For instance, leaving the line sit while everyone went on break or left for lunch.  Meanwhile, the parts that happened to be between the wash section and the heat tunnel (for drying) just sat there & rusted.  And we were told to just paint over it.  Also, touching parts after the wash section. 

But I'd be interested to hear what they were doing, and why would you wait between steps in the first place?  One thing that really puzzled me was how could you expect the same wash solution to work for both steel & aluminum?  In plating, you use a completely different series of pre-plating processes for aluminum than you do for steel - different acid, etc.  We used muratic to prep steel, but if you put aluminum in that it would eat it up in short order.  (I also think that we didn't change the wash solution often enough, but they wanted to save money.  In electro-plating work, you cannot take shortcuts like that - get just a bit of oil (off of your skin, or anywhere) on a part before plating and it will show for sure.

JD was doing the last step before the electrostatic booth on the afternoon shift.  Then letting the parts sit overnight before applying the coating and baking.  Quite similar to what you described.  As I understand the process involves a cleaning solution as the last step.  No acids, just a special detergent to remove all traces of oils, fingerprints, airborne dust or mists. 

[Los_Control]

several years ago I was active in another forum with 4x4 vehicles. A member their interested me because he did powder coating in his garage.

And he was using a old electric oven from a kitchen. Limited on space but could do 1 wheel at a time. Was all kinds of small parts he could do. Motorcycle parts ... He was very busy earning money with his home made setup.

 

After a couple years, he paid for a addition to his garage and built his own oven. Had a short mono rail system to pickup the prepared pieces and roll them into a spray area and then into the oven. Now he could do complete rear ends and bumpers and things.

Just a business they started at home and had more business then he could handle. ... It worked because he was smart.

 

I personally would not want to powdercoat anything I own .... if it was yours I would not have a issue with it.

[Eneto-55]

1 hour ago, kencombs said:

JD was doing the last step before the electrostatic booth on the afternoon shift.  Then letting the parts sit overnight before applying the coating and baking.  Quite similar to what you described.  As I understand the process involves a cleaning solution as the last step.  No acids, just a special detergent to remove all traces of oils, fingerprints, airborne dust or mists. 

Because of my prior experience in electro-plating, I was interested in knowing what all was in the solution at the powder coat plant, but it was all a pre-mixed solution, and while the warnings on the label were similar to what you would expect with acid content, there was no way to know exactly what it was you were messing with.  The Powder coat shop where I worked didn't have an emergency eye-wash station, no emergency shower, and actually, when we were washing down the tanks inside the wash section, the only water source on that entire floor was where we had a water hose attached.  We were also not provided with rubber gloves, aprons, boots, or face shields for times when we were handling these chemicals.  But as far as acids are concerned, we did once test a solution which was labeled as containing phosphoric acid.  (I have some of that solution, and it is strong enough that it burns your skin if you get some on you.  After we tested the product, my supervisor told me to pour it down the drain.  I took it home instead.  I figured it'd be better to pour it out over many years rather than all at once....  I use it only sparingly, since I don't know if I could get more.  That was all over 13 years ago.)  Oh, and when there were some kind of quality complaints a woman representing the chemical company came and spent a couple of days watching the process, and giving pointers for better practice.  She acted pretty weird when I asked what was in it, like I was going to start mixing our own instead of buying from her.  We were coating lots of aftermarket tractor battery boxes, and some designs had corners that held water.  I asked her about touching the parts with bare hands (to hold it still while blowing the water out of the corners with compressed air), and she said what I expected her to say - you shouldn't touch it.  (That's the way I'd been told to do by the guy who was working there before me.)  So I started holding it still with a metal hook, but then one came off of the overhead hook, and came down on my other hand when I tried to catch it - cut the back of my thumb clear into the nail bed.

There is another type of powder coating, one that I've read about, but never seen.  That system solves the issue with thin coating in crevices and inside corners, but I've never seen anything done that way.  The deal is that the powder is in a tank that has air injected into the bottom, which keeps the powder sort of suspended.  The part to be coated is connected to the anode, lowered into the tank, then lifted out again and sent through the oven.  

[RNR1957NYer]

I just happened to take an on-line continuing education course for my architectural  license renewal during that dog of a Super Bowl and the subject was industrial painting of aluminum coil and extrusions.  Since I got a perfect scored on the quiz, I thought I'd share a  couple nuggets of my new found expertise?:

- Powder coating is attractive to manufacturers because it is zero voc, (and meeting air quality regulations is expensive) and the unused powder can be swept up and reapplied.

- Powder coating and "liquid" coating can actually be the same type of chemical composition (say "Kynar" to use a familiar trade name) and have similar properties, the difference being that heating the powder triggers the chemical reaction that sets the coating, and the evaporation of solvents causes the chemical reaction that "dries" liquid paint.

- Surface prep for aluminum is trickier than for steel; as noted by the JD example above, the stuff just wants to oxidize if it sets too long.

[Eneto-55]

43 minutes ago, RNR1957NYer said:

... and the unused powder can be swept up and reapplied.   ....

We did that too.  Since most of the stuff we painted was either John Deere green or black, the 'waste' powder usually came out looking pretty much like military green - at a distance.  If you got up close, you could see all of the different colors, the red, the yellow, the silver, and of course the black & the green.  My understanding was that the color particles do not melt or mix at all - just the 'binder' melts, and sticks all of the particles together.  If you looked inside a crevice, it would often just look like shiny metal, like it had clear on it.  Apparently the 'binder' was lighter, and made it farther into recessed areas.  At least that's the way it looked to me.  No training on my part, I was just shown how to shoot the powder by someone else that had also never had any education on it.

[Ulu]

I use man-made aquarium sand for grip on skateboards. It comes in various colors. One-part epoxy for binder, or just clear acrylic enamel.

[Sniper]

Ah, non-skid.  A great way to lose flesh when you stumble aboard ship after a night of liberty.

 

I've used playground sand in a gallon of paint, mix well, roll it on.  Works great.

[P15-D24]

West Marine sells a paint additive for boat decks. I use it on my boat, wood steps around the house and the steel ramps for my ATV trailer. 

[Frank Elder]

On 2/9/2021 at 8:48 PM, Sniper said:

Ah, non-skid.  A great way to lose flesh when you stumble aboard ship after a night of liberty.

 

 

Permission to cross the patio Daddyo!