Please give your opinion

[Robert5]

On what the cause of this issue might be?

 

My '51 Cambridge sits usually 1 week. It is parked (in season) in my driveway. It is left in second gear, no E- brake on.

I fires it up and I back of my driveway (approx.) 30ft. I turn my steering wheel all the way to the right as I reach the end of the driveway and enter the street. Come to a stop, shift into 1st and begin to turn the steering to the left and  attempt to move forward. At this point there is some kind of lock up. Car does not want to travel forward. I can usually over power whatever is the lock up and you can hear something release and the car goes forward. Once I can get that to occurr, the problem disappears and it does not happen again the rest of the day. 

Now today one other odd thing happened. When it locked up, I stalled it trying to over power the lock up......and when I restarted the car, the lock up was completely gone and the car went freely down the road.

The brakes were checked all around....all perfect.....shoes, wheel cylinders, springs all working as they should. Front wheel bearings all removed grease repacked -- all good.

Any thoughts? 

[Doug&Deb]

I originally thought a leaky wheel cylinder but you checked that. Puzzling for sure.

[49WINDS]

Maybe something in the driveshaft or diff binding up?

[Young Ed]

I bought a Dakota advertised as having a bad diff and that's sort of how it behaved. I think I'd disconnect the driveshaft and try and spin the rear wheels by hand. See if anything feels clunky

[PT81PlymouthPickup]

I've seen old brake hoses do weird things. They can collapse on the inside and hold pressure and release when the hose is moved by moving the steering. Rare, but plausible?

[knuckleharley]

1 hour ago, Robert5 said:

On what the cause of this issue might be?

 

My '51 Cambridge sits usually 1 week. It is parked (in season) in my driveway. It is left in second gear, no E- brake on.

I fires it up and I back of my driveway (approx.) 30ft. I turn my steering wheel all the way to the right as I reach the end of the driveway and enter the street. Come to a stop, shift into 1st and begin to turn the steering to the left and  attempt to move forward. At this point there is some kind of lock up. Car does not want to travel forward. I can usually over power whatever is the lock up and you can hear something release and the car goes forward. Once I can get that to occurr, the problem disappears and it does not happen again the rest of the day. 

Now today one other odd thing happened. When it locked up, I stalled it trying to over power the lock up......and when I restarted the car, the lock up was completely gone and the car went freely down the road.

The brakes were checked all around....all perfect.....shoes, wheel cylinders, springs all working as they should. Front wheel bearings all removed grease repacked -- all good.

Any thoughts? 

The Only thing I can think of is either your brake shoes are locking to the drums for some reason,or the piston in your master cylinder is jamming for some reason.

 

Your brakes would MAYBE start working again after the first time because the heat of being used and driving would maybe expand enough to have the clearance needed to release.

Please let us know what you find out and how you solve the problem.

[DJK]

If possible when you get to the end of your driveway and experience the binding, jack up the vehicle to see if any brakes are binding including the parking brake.

[P15-D24]

Standard 3 speed transmission?

[Los_Control]

Another worthless opinion from a carpenter and not a mechanic 

I wonder when was the last time you opened up and rebuilt your master cylinder?

I ask this, because I did take mine apart to inspect, and I cleaned and honed it, put in new rubber cup ... I was never satisfied with it.  The return on it was way to slow & sticky.

I just put it back together, bench bled it and set it aside. Since then I have purchased from DCM a real rebuild kit for it.

 

Point is, you have a heavy spring on your brake pedal, that spring will return pedal to normal position. That does not mean the internals of your master cylinder are returning at same pace.

If the internal spring and rubber cup is going 1/2 way, getting sticky and hung up, is just like you still have your foot on the brake pedal, even though the pedal has returned to position.

[Robert5]

6 minutes ago, P15-D24 said:

Standard 3 speed transmission?

Yes.

[Robert5]

11 minutes ago, DJK said:

If possible when you get to the end of your driveway and experience the binding, jack up the vehicle to see if any brakes are binding including the parking brake.

Not possible. It locks up only once I'm backed into my narrow street and the steering is being turned back to the left. The car would be blocking the entire street and the neighbors would string me up....lol.

But I appreciate the suggestion.

[Robert5]

Let me mention that after sitting for  the same number of days, I can back up to the street end of my driveway, stop and then put it back into first (but keeping the steering wheel straight) and drive forward to the other end of my driveway.....and it's fine. No lock up at all. Seems the turning of the wheel facilitates the process of locking up.....strange.

And yes, when and if I figure out the cause I will share it with you all.

[DJ194950]

Sounds to me like one of the front wheels gets dug into something on frame or other parts as you reach full hard turn and backup. The tire gets hung up stopping forward movement.

 

Happened to several friends cars when bigger wheels/tires where put on and steered hard one direction hard over or both directions.

 

Check of backside of the tires will tell the tale if so.

 

DJ

[P15-D24]

3 minutes ago, DJ194950 said:

Sounds to me like one of the front wheels gets dug into something on frame or other parts as you reach full hard turn and backup. The tire gets hung up stopping forward movement.

 

Happened to several friends cars when bigger wheels/tires where put on and steered hard one direction hard over or both directions.

 

Check of backside of the tires will tell the tale if so.

 

DJ

Following this line of thought, jack up both front wheels and do an inspection when the steering wheel is cranked over. If it only happens when cranked over something is binding. 

[woodie49]

Heres a couple things I would try. Although you don't say it (and I probably shouldn't assume it) I am assuming you are braking as you go down your driveway. When you back down the driveway, just leave it in nuetral (if gravity will do the job) and see if when you put it into first, you still have the problem. If not, its probably in the drivetrain. In that case, I would carefully inspect the rear universal on the driveshaft, but there are obviously a number of things that can be an issue. 

If there is not enough slope to the driveway, back it in and drive it forward off the drive the next time you leave. If you still gave the issue at the end of your driveway as you brake and then turn into the street, it is likely brakes. I would suspect the master cylinder, but you should try jacking up the front and back to adjust the shoes. Spin the tires backwards to see if they hang up. Maybe s pring or something in one of the shoe assemblies is broken and allows the shoe to hang up somewhere.

I would try a few scenarios to test the frequency of the episode before tearing into it. The more info you have before surgery, the better.

[Sam Buchanan]

58 minutes ago, P15-D24 said:

 

 

Checking wheel/tire clearance with the car jacked up may not reveal interference if it occurs with the springs loaded......

Edited September 8, 2020 by Sam Buchanan

[woodie49]

What happens if you back into the street and turn your wheel to straighten the car out while still backing up? Then with the wheel already straight pointing down the road, you stop, shift to first and start your forward motion? Any hang up then? Is there a big change in the incline between you driveway and the street? 

[Oldguy48]

Would it be possible, when the lock-up occurs, to slightly open a bleeder at one of the wheels to see if the lock-up  clears itself?  It's possible that the brake system pressure is not releasing completely.  Just a thought!

[Robert5]

1 hour ago, woodie49 said:

What happens if you back into the street and turn your wheel to straighten the car out while still backing up? Then with the wheel already straight pointing down the road, you stop, shift to first and start your forward motion? Any hang up then? Is there a big change in the incline between you driveway and the street? 

Kinda do that now but without power steering and a very narrow dirt street, cannot get it anywhere near fully straight and pointed forward within the confines i have to deal with.

 

 

 

[Robert5]

1 hour ago, Oldguy48 said:

Would it be possible, when the lock-up occurs, to slightly open a bleeder at one of the wheels to see if the lock-up  clears itself?  It's possible that the brake system pressure is not releasing completely.  Just a thought!

I like your thought process very much. But for a little rural dirt road, it quite busy. Seems a car every minute of  two comes up or down.  When it locks up, I'm on a diagonal but fully across the road. Blocking all traffic.

[Loren]

One small thing that should be checked (if all else fails).

The push rod from the pedal to the Master Cylinder has a length adjustment. In the shop manual there is a spec for pedal movement before any hydraulic action occurs.

Assuming the pedal return spring is operating as it should, you can check this by looking into the reservoir of the M.C. Push the pedal down by hand and when you release it you should see a jet of fluid coming out of the relief port. No jet and the brakes will stick. Checking the pedal push rod & return spring should be part of a M.C. change. 

[JerseyHarold]

Are the front brake hoses correct for the car?  If the wrong length, they may bend and pinch on tight turns, not allowing the wheel cylinders to retract because brake fluid is still pressurizing them.

[RobertKB]

I think you need to pull all drums and look for a brake shoe lining that has come adrift. Start with the front as your problem seems to occur when wheels are turned. I had a shoe come loose and the car’s right front wheel dragged in reverse but was ok going forward. Dangerous as it could have locked up at speed when going forward. 
 

Lots of good suggestions above as well. Please let us know when you find the problem. 

[Merle Coggins]

Is there an open parking lot nearby, or in a nearby town, that you could use to try repeating the situation without worries of blocking traffic? If so you could try different scenarios to see if it is a tire binding issue, brake issue, or other issue. Once you figure out how to repeat the situation it will help you hone in on where to look further. 

[Robert5]

15 minutes ago, Merle Coggins said:

Is there an open parking lot nearby, or in a nearby town, that you could use to try repeating the situation without worries of blocking traffic? If so you could try different scenarios to see if it is a tire binding issue, brake issue, or other issue. Once you figure out how to repeat the situation it will help you hone in on where to look further. 

That is something I can do. Next time I take it out, I will do that. We will see if I can duplicate it. 

May not be able to because it seems like it may need days of sitting to make it happen.....but will try.