Dual engine coupling- dont ask why!

[41/53dodges]

Dont ask me why, but I want to couple two 218's or 230's together inline, but I am wondering a few things.

1) how would one recommend coupling the two engines? I would go with a bolted direct coupling, but nobody ever said a second opinion never worked!

2) how would one go about starting such a beast? one starter or two? and for that matter...

3) would the front engine even get a flywheel?

4) since both engines would be coupled one in front of the other, the second engine would take the combined torque of both engines, would a factory flathead crank even be able to take those kind of stresses? or would the thing just break and die...

Dont ask why I want this, it seemed like a good idea at the time!

Thanks,

Josh

[Don Coatney]

I will bite.... WHY???? Gonna make a tank?

[BobT-47P15]

I've seen some dragsters with one engine in front of another......but

have no idea how they did it. They were usually V8s though.

[chopt50wgn]

To get 2 motors to run inline, one has to turn the opposite direction and have the cranks connected to each other.

[Dan Hiebert]

I think he's looking for "elephant" style, rear of one hooked up to front of the other. I can relate to the desire to do something "odd" for no particular reason other than to see if it can be done, but I've no clue on this one. Some of the uber-modified tractors they use in tractor pull competitions run various kinds of engines like that, too. That may be a place to do some research.

Of course - now my curiosity is piqued, and I'd certainly like to know the outcome if 41/53Dodges follows through with this......

[pflaming]

Mount one on top of the other and connect the two to a common transmission. Cut a hole in the hood and your good to go.

[41/53dodges]

Of course - now my curiosity is piqued, and I'd certainly like to know the outcome if 41/53Dodges follows through with this......

Im not likely to actually build this beast, but i might mocksomething up with my scrap engines downstairs just for my own entertainment!

I can figure out just about everything else, but my biggest concern is whether one crankshaft could take the combined torque of both engines!

Edited December 12, 2012 by 41/53dodges

[Plymouthy Adams]

Mopar not long ago did this with a set of inline four cyclinder engines in a prototype vehicle..making a modern straight eight...

[TodFitch]

For something really different, "just" have each engine run a hydraulic pump and use a swash plate type variable output hydraulic motor for your transmission... Then you can mount the two engines anyway you see fit. Side by side, end to end, etc.

[greg g]

S as not to have to worry about absolute syncronization, have the front one have fluid drive, then fabricat a flange that bolts to the front pulley of the rear one. you should only need one starter one generator but likely both water pumps, but maybe not. start the front one then light up the ignition on the rear one.

GMC bolted two V6's together to make one truck engine back ion the late 60's If bolting them together something like mounting the front one higher and then linking them with a chain drive of a belt like for a supercharger might work.

[Don Coatney]

For something really different, "just" have each engine run a hydraulic pump and use a swash plate type variable output hydraulic motor for your transmission... Then you can mount the two engines anyway you see fit. Side by side, end to end, etc.

I really like this idea!

[Young Ed]

GMC bolted two V6's together to make one truck engine back ion the late 60's

My neighbor has a 61 tilt cab fire truck with this drivetrain. It looks neat with the 4 heads 2 intakes and the 2 carbs sticking up in the middle.

[thrashingcows]

You need to start digging through old HotRod magazines, and other publications from the early days of drag racing. Here you will find all kinds of inginuity and motor combos....from 2, 3 and 4 motors linked.

I read Hotrod and Hotrod Deluxe...and they cover a lot of these old dragsters. I really don't think you'd have any problem with the rear motor blowing up. Guys used to hook old nailheads in series, with blowers and such. Heck one article I read a guy had two motors, one running a blower, the other running nitro....little unbalanced I'd think.

I would want a coupler that perhaps had a failsafe built in...Keyways, or pins that could shear? As for starters...don't think a single starter would be able to turn over both motors. You'd need to have two starters I think, so this would mean you'd have to run a manual transmission pressure plate on the front motor to have a ring gear for the teeth to engage.

[timkingsbury]

Dont ask me why, but I want to couple two 218's or 230's together inline, but I am wondering a few things.

1) how would one recommend coupling the two engines? I would go with a bolted direct coupling, but nobody ever said a second opinion never worked!

2) how would one go about starting such a beast? one starter or two? and for that matter...

3) would the front engine even get a flywheel?

4) since both engines would be coupled one in front of the other, the second engine would take the combined torque of both engines, would a factory flathead crank even be able to take those kind of stresses? or would the thing just break and die...

Dont ask why I want this, it seemed like a good idea at the time!

Thanks,

Josh

Ok and I see Don has put up the tank coupling of multiple engines as well.

If your serious, I can tell you how to do it. My father put to 265 ci chryslers together and put it in a tractor for tractor pulling for a guy.

There are multiple ways to do it is the short answer. There is no issue with the cranks. Mopar had forged cranks full flow oil pressure and high end bearings long before the likes of GM ever thought about building a real engine (quote me on that).

keep in mind boats often had an do have two flatheads together. Actually one turning clockwise and one running counter clockwise and they sit side by side .

But let me assume you want them one in front of the other. You bolt them front pulley side to back transmission side of the two engines. depending what I was doing, I would change from the current water pumps to electric water pumps and save a bunch of hassle. It is the engine in the back heating up that is the big issue. I would run magneto's in both engines if you have them. Save a bunch more hassle. then I would do a slight modification to the 6 volt starters so I could run 12 volts through them (like I have done for my 49 plymouth business coupe). You can technically start this thing with 1 starter. Dad had 1 military 24 volt starter on the back engine. But I would be trying for two 12 volts I think. I would also be starting running and getting the timing of these engines perfect apart before I then coupled them together.

But at a super high level, that is about it. In a massey harris tractor you cheat get a second frame glue in a piece of the 2nd frame into the tractor that is running two engines, and away we go. Sheet metal is a bigger pain in the backside there.

I am sure I have pictures of Dad's somewhere. But again depends on the why.

What I can tell you, is I would bet a buck or two, that we have more horsepower out of 1 265 ci chrysler motor bored 120 thou, than you will have in a pair of 230 ci motors ! But hey, if it is the "cool factor" you want, one cant argue with that one. But hey why stop at 2 250s'.. Dad talked about but never made, 2 flathead chrysler 8 cylinders stapped together to have an inline 16 !

Tim

[Daliant.]

Here's a fancy way to do it:

get yourself a pair of marine engines and bolt them nose to nose

1:The pair of marine engines will each turn the right way to do this

2:The front covers look like they would be easy enough to bolt together, leave one with the bolt holes threaded, drill the other out and make some "windows" in it to get at the bolts that will hold the two together.

3: fab up a short piece of splined shaft to couple the two cranks

4: this leaves both flywheel ends to attach a transmission to, also allows the use of two starters

Here's a pic to get yer wheels turnin

[Plymouthy Adams]

I won't ask..but will ask this..."suspension options"

[JIPJOBXX]

Watch this and I'm sure you will enjoy old Tommy Ivo and his four engine dragster. Nice explanation of how dragster worked with four engines. Just fun!!!!

[41/53dodges]

I won't ask..but will ask this..."suspension options"

I won't say, but i will say this... I havent the slightest clue what to do with this thing if I build it!

[Merle Coggins]

Watch this and I'm sure you will enjoy old Tommy Ivo and his four engine dragster. Nice explanation of how dragster worked with four engines. Just fun!!!!

That was cool.

[Don Coatney]

For something really different, "just" have each engine run a hydraulic pump and use a swash plate type variable output hydraulic motor for your transmission... Then you can mount the two engines anyway you see fit. Side by side, end to end, etc.

That is a novel idea. I like it. I do wonder how much efficiency would be lost converting to hydraulics?

I have seen the tank engine up close and personal.

[wayfarer]

From an engineering standpoint, you do not want to have a rigid coupling between the two engines. Use something like this:

http://www.baldor.com/pdf/literature/CA4000GSUP_1108_WEB.pdf

[1941Rick]

You will be busy answering the question "why?" rather than figuring out what to do with it.... I would go forward with your idea... just think of the way you will work your brain...Also you would have the only one on this site.....

joining them and timing them will be your biggest challange.

[41/53dodges]

From an engineering standpoint, you do not want to have a rigid coupling between the two engines. Use something like this:

http://www.baldor.com/pdf/literature/CA4000GSUP_1108_WEB.pdf

or how about something like this!

if it can handle the torque of a drive shaft, then it should take linking a pair of 218's together pretty well!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fits-BMW-E36-Drive-Shaft-Flex-Disc-26-11-1-227-410-New-/350494986339?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3ABMW&hash=item519b211063&vxp=mtr

[Don Coatney]

I have seen this truck as I used to live in Van Wert, Ohio.

Eisenhauer (twin-engine five-axis truck)

Around 1947 the Eisenhower Manufacturig Company of Van Wert, Ohio built this 10x4 straight truck intended that it would be able to carry a 20-ton payload on the two lane US highways of the day without the disadvantagesof tractor-trailer combinations The vehicle was bult using Chevrolet components and had 2 Chevrolet 93 horsepower 235.5 cubic inch six cylinder engines. They were extensively tested by the ordnance Corps. A second prototype was a 10x4 frontsteer truck.

(reference: US Military Wheeled Vehicles by Fred W.Crimson page 202

[greg g]

Two fluid drive units chained or belted to one trans or hydrostatic drive unit.