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Everything posted by timkingsbury

  1. since I keep being asked for the technical breakdown of T5 transmissions I will cave and post it here even though its clearly not what this blog is about. This is the splits of the average mopar 3 speed Plymouths 1936 – 1940 1st 2.57 2nd 1.55 3rd 1.00 Plymouths 1941 1st 2.57 2nd 1.83 3rd 1.00 Plymouth 1942 -1954 1st....2.57 2nd...1.83 3rd...1.0 reverse 3.48 T-5 Transmission Application Chart (attached) overdrive info - including a833 and t5 information.docx
  2. there are the splits of the aluminum a833 4 speed with overdrive and comparing to the earlier Plymouths factory 3 speed (without overdrive) Plymouths 1936 – 1940 1st 2.57 2nd 1.55 3rd 1.00 Plymouths 1941 1st 2.57 2nd 1.83 3rd 1.00 Plymouth 1942 -1954 1st....2.57 2nd...1.83 3rd...1.0 reverse 3.48 So here is the a833 primer stuff ! Aluminum cased a833's with overdrive started part way into 1975 thru mid 1987 Gear splits 1st: 3.09:1, 2nd: 1.67:1 3rd: 1:1 4th: 0.73:1 (Trucks used a 0.71:1 fourth) The overdrive configuration with a 23-spline input appeared in these vehicles: o 1975 to 1979 Valiant, Duster, Dart, Scamp, Swinger, Volare, Aspen (3.09:1 ratio first gear) o 1975 to 1987 Dodge light-duty pickups and Dodge and Plymouth Vans (3.09:1 ratio first gear) o 1977 to 1979 Diplomat and LeBaron (3.09:1 ratio first gear)
  3. Hi Folks - I likely should have updated this back before Christmas. 100% of the AoK triples are sold out. The 1st batch of those came out in 2000 and there has been 5 or 6 runs of them done. The triple is for the 25 1/2:" Canadian engine which starting in 1936 was on Chryslers, Desoto, heavier Dodge trucks and in Canada, add Dodge Cars, Plymouth cars (other than convertibles), all Dodge and Fargo trucks unless you were talking the super big block that is a series of 331ci, 377ci and later 413ci. The AoK dual carb intake for the USA 23 1/2" block has been out a few years and there are 2 or 3 batches of those made. Unfortunately the foam core casting supplier has changed from our original supplier. He retired after his wife passed away. The next supplier has gone up in costs, needed significant molding enhancements before they took over and now want even more changes. So until we resolve that situation, or find a new supplier were sitting sold out. We have a waiting list right now. It costs nothing to be on it. If we run off another round of both, then we will get people to firm up. I hate to say never, but it is possible a next run is a last run. From rock stock engines, right back to 1936 engines on the 25 1/2" front to full blown race engines, the AoK triple has proven its the best intake ever made for the Chrysler based flathead. The AoK dual will now around 5 years experience has shown in the field to be what our tests of over 25 intakes, from flow bench to dyno testing showed. It to is the best dual carb intake ever made for the 23 1/2" USA flathead Mopar and honestly there is nothing close. So if you want on our waiting list, please email me at fargopickupking@yahoo.com As a final note, right now we have 52 triples and 70 dual intakes on that waiting list that we started early last fall
  4. The Serial Number is for a 1954 Chrysler Windsor which engine was made in the Windsor Ontario Engine Plant and the car came from the Windsor Assembly plant. It was a 265 ci motor when it left the factory . 3 7/16" bore and 4 3/4" stroke That being said the serial as 55 Fargo point out on another one, was not applied at the factory. The factory used a jig which held all numbers, letters and any special character together so when the serial number was applied they were absolutely in a straight line. This is a restamped block. 1954 was the 1st year the Windsor had a v8 in it, although at least in Canada the 265 was an option. The part number that is cast into the block -1400229-1 was actual a part number used for the 238, 250 and 265 ci engines and was a block number casted from oct 1951 until 1955 actually. If you looked inside the block you would notice its been carved on the side which allows for the long stroke 265 crank and rods to have clearance. That same carving was done in advance of it being known which ci motor it would be. If you look closer to the oil filler tube, but down by the oil pan you will likely see a Letter (likely a D and then a number (1 or 2 digets) and then another number (1 or 2 digets) . That will allow us to figure out when the block was casted. You can also look up a little higher and see a clock face cast in the block and a code for what shift it was casted on. The USA engines are a lot easier to determine the casting date that the later Canadian 25 1/2" engines, but thats a long story that really doesnt help in this discussion Good eye... 55 Fargo your 100% correct. while the t137 is an excellent resource it really is, it is not without its gaps and Canadian engines are often part of that gap. A classic example would be looking at a 1949 Plymouth you will see a p18 shown as a 218. Without getting into a big debate, it really was known within Chrysler as a 217. The Canadian 25 1/2" engine was a 218. However the real point is I have a 1949 Plymouth that my great aunt bought brand new. Its a p18 serial number. It was neither a 217 or 218... In canada they were 228 ci 25 1/2" blocks. On the t137 site it would show the 1954 chrysler 6 cylinder as c62 and that is correct... Correct for engines which were shipped to the USA for assembly into a 1954 Chrysler. For engines that were going to the Canadian assembly plant in Windsor, they were marked c54. Hope that helps
  5. Anything with a date after august 1951 is the best blocks made. A bypass oil filter does a better job of filtering oil, but a full flow starting in 1954 model years will see all the oil passed through a filter. You can drill into a by pass block and put on a full flow on it. Here its done on a 1949 Canadian Plymouth block, which started its life as a 228 and is now 125 thou over bored 265. You can run both a bypass and a full flow if you like. There are 265s with either configuratons that you can consider as durable as anything ever made. All of the Canadian engines after ww2 in the 25 1/2" series are all forged cranks, balanced to 1 gram, forged pistons (from the factory unless ordered by a secondary manufacturer) and balanced assemblies of crank, rods and pistons. You will see lots referring to combines and industrial engines. You can get into engines that are purpose build, maybe with sodium valves and low rev cams. Often industrial engines have cams to meet a specific hp configuration but also a per hour fuel consumption number will have a specialty cam. It is the cam which a lot miss and there are a huge catalogue of cams that were ground for the 25 1/2" engines. The whole topic can be an explosive one and everyone has an opinion. Sadly I find a lot of opinions can be without any experience or expertise behind them. As I have read your posts you talk durability, but then I see the thread going in the supercharger and other directions. I will take a slight tangent here to say, that once you move any engine into a turbo or super charger arena, a cam with a certain number of degrees of separation between when an intake closes and exhausts opens, and visaversa on exhausts closing and intakes opening, become critical if you doing much more than using them as jewelry. By that I mean if your just putting it on with a tiny boost as many have ok.. In those cases I can get way way more power out of a naturally aspirated engine. But if your going to start cranking up pressure, you need separation and no stock cam was ever cam with such seperation. We are happy to provide without charge the specs for at least a couple of cams for superchargers or turbo charges. After that, drop me a note any time.. fargopickupking@yahoo.com and happy to discuss further.
  6. Well you make some interesting observations. On HP your numbers are not quite correct and what was published was for the 265 coming out in 1952 under valued and with a purpose. I have uploaded many times and can send it to you, the 1952 poster which was the start of the 265 and as well the start of dual carbs and factory dual exhaust, but also 241 dodge hemi. The Hemi for what they called the medium tonnage field was primarily municipalities and contractors, dump trucks etc. It w4 ould come out at 133 hp. The 265 for the truck with the truck cam and dual carbs and dual exhaust was 155hp. That not a guess, thats a fact. But marketing said if you say that we will never sell the hemi, so we want it cranked back. At one point the poster was the hemi at 133 and the 6 and 132, but when it hit the dealers in December of 1951 the 6 was tucked into the corner and was shown at 136 hp. Pure marketting. No difference to the 1964 426 hemi being called 425 hp with a single 4 barrel, and in 1966 with a wilder cam, 2 4 barrels it was still 425 hp. That of course was for insurance purposes. In any case I digress. The 265 from the factory with a chrysler car 265 cam in it, was the most hp of the 23 1/2" or 25 1/2" engines. But connecting rods.. You are correct, the shorter the rod the bigger the angle. Now its the balanced crank, rods and pistons that offset your concerns it really does. Think about it.. GM, FORD, you name the manufacturer.. Who else had forged cranks balanced to a gram.. answer no one.. Back to your point.. Let me just say that in the 238/250/265 series engines, they are all exactly the same bore.. 3 7/16" If your having custom made forged pistons made well what you do is take a 238 rod, and raise the pin placement on the pistons. Longer rod and better angle. It doesnt work with a 218 and a 201 is smaller rods bearings so not relevant. The point being on that one point your correct.. long the rod the better.. if.. key word if you not negatively effecting displacement. As so many would tell you, there is no replacement for displacement.
  7. Hi - Well in the 25 1/2" block engines.. the 201 you maybe referring to was moved from USA production to the Windsor Ontario Canada plant when it opened in 1935 for the 1936 model year. that engine was produced for 14 months out of that plant. Among other things you may wish to consider.. The crank has smaller journals, the water jackets, are smaller. the oil galleys are smaller.. It really would be the weakest of all engines ever produced out of the Canadian Plant. When I say that I am quoting my Grandfather who would be the GM of that engine plant when it opened in 1935, reporting directly to Walter Chrysler (and not the VP of production) and he would still be in charged of the engine plant when the very last 25 1/2" engine rolled out of the plant on Nov 11 1959. The 230 was 23 1/2" block so not relevant to the big block discussion, beyond the small block has offset rods. With the 218 and I am assuming your are referring to the Canadian 25 1/2" 218 and not the USA small block 23 1/2" engine that are 217 that are often called 218s. The next generation block would actually be a changed version of the 228 ci motor which started in Windsor in early 1936. That is often referred to as a generation 2 block. Definately better than the 201 engine, but there would be a number of changes to the engine blocks and internal configurations. Even the 1946 250 ci motor has a different block than would a 250 ci motor made after August 1951. It would be that later block which has the best water jackets, best oil circulation, reworking of oil passages and on and on. By that point you could get a 218, 228 or the series of 3 7/16" bore which would be the 238, 250 and 265 ci motors. The difference is the stroke which is accomplished by changing rods, and cranks. 4 1/4" being a 238, 4 1/2" being a 250 and 4 3/4" being a 265. But there is no question the best ever flathead engines ever built are those generations. Among other things and I could give you a laundry list.. Your talking forged cranks balanced to 1 gram, forged pistons, rods, pistons and cranks as an assembly balanced to 1 gram. That never existed with any other flathead engine anywhere in the world. In fact my Grandfather often said - I defy anyone to find a more balanced engine in the planet that came out of my plant. So if stroke becomes where you wish to draw your battle line.. best try with the 238, 250 and 265 motors.. But by 1953 the vast majority of all orders for heavy trucks, commercial vehicles, municipal vehicles, industrial engines, for welders, water pumps, combines, and on and on were 265s. One can point ot military orders of 250s and I would suggest the reduction in price was the factor. They didnt want to pay the extra $. One last one, of total production of any single motor the 265 was produced in a volume larger than any other single motor configuation from the Windsor Engine plant. From 1946 until the end of the flatheads, the Windsor engine plants warranty numbers as a % of production was not only the smallest of any Chrysler engine plant by over 98% but the smallest of any engine plant in North America. The reason was simple.. Build it better, balance it better and you will get less back. Tim Kingsbury
  8. Well after my 7th note from someone I guess I will wade in. I have no idea what Don's picture is or what the story line there is, but here Here is the answer to your question. Yes, every single dual carb dual exhaust manifold that came from the factory was equipped with govenors and balance tubes. You could buy the intake assembly which was the intake and balanced tube, the exhaust maifolds (front or back) as individual assemblies from dealers. Lots of stock car builders would drop the govenors. If you also drop the balance tube as many do, you will find you loose torque and hp. You will gain rpm if you are simply removing the balance tube from the truck engine that it came from the factory with. But and here is the key but, all of those engines that came equipped with the setup and purpose built cams. So you only need to take a cam from a 1952-1953 chrysler and put it into the truck engine to raise the rpm, keeping the torque curve. It actually will develop 8 more hp with nothing more than that cam swap. Again, I am not talking putting in a custom cam or making any other changes, beyond putting in the period car cam into the truck engine. The dual carb/dual exhaust intakes were all produced in Windsor Ontario Canada, and were available at dealers as parts starting in march 1952. I clearly cant speak to all dealerships but can say the Wellington Motors in Guelph Ontario Canada could still get you the dual carb setup in june of 1974. I have a receipt for a complete setup purchased that way.
  9. George Asche can make you one out of your stock intake, You can do it integrated with your exhaust and split them internally and added a second pipe, or do it with headers. In terms of an aftermarket intake, Eddie Edmunds made a decent on and I do see them up for sale from time to time, although they tend to be pricy. The factory dual carb and dual exhaust manifolds that came on the 1952-1956 trucks are also available from time to time, but big time pricy. I know a guy who has a fully restored setup, from carbs to linkage to cross over pipe and dual exhaust but your looking at $3500. The fentons or offy or other low profile intakes I wouldnt touch with a ten foot pole. They loose too much torque. In terms of our AoK plans, we wont be making a dual carb intake. Our triple works so well on everything from a 201, though to the later 238/250/265 series it just doesnt make financial sense for us to develop a dual. Finally sorry for the late reply. I have not been on the forum much this year.
  10. We have had 1950 Plymouths that required nothing, and 1 that required a bit of modification (grinding) on one sport of the cross member. I am not sure if the case of some of the A833 transmissions have slight differences.
  11. You can use any 23 spline (fine spline clutch) from the 1960s and newer. The current one you have is a course spline that was from the 1950s and older. I would use the biggest clutch your pressure plate will take. The last one we put in was for a 1966 dodge cornet rt clutch (10 ½”) and it came with a pressure plate as the one that was in the car was in rough condition. It came from napa and was listed as a clutch pack although there are lots of great and inexpensive options available. If your current pressure plate is in decent shape then likely a 10 1/2" clutch will work fine and they are readily available from all the major part suppliers. I really dont know the width of a jeep cherokee. Here is a handy chart for a lot of the cars which gives you the widths and that is the key for you is making sure you have the track width close. Having the spring widths the same is also a nice thing as it saves more work. In terms of drive shaft its just a case of having the yoke with the finer spline for the transmission and the rear end. So measure your spring widths and your track width and compare them to the jeep. Personally I prefer going to a car version and depending on what your doing engine wise, likely around the 3:55 or 3:73 ratio. One of the mistakes guys do is going to something 3:23 or 2:73 and you suddenly have a dog at lower speeds. So unless your really building a performance engine 3:55 would be as low a number as I would suggest. Hope that helps get you rolling. Tim
  12. Yes they are ... There are some bell housings it does not fit. Primarily the larger trucks. Feel free to drop me a note directly at fargopickupking@yahoo.com as I am not on the site often these days
  13. Ok Folks - For those who would like to see Legendary Plymouth Motorcycle, she is on display at the National Motorcycle museum. http://www.nationalmcmuseum.org/plymouth-monster-and-bonneville-in-1935-one-mans-dream-for-the-worlds-fastest-motorcycle/ Tim
  14. Just thought I would share a picture of fellow Canadian Joe Flynn's cool ride, now running an AoK dual carb intake, linkage and air cleaner setup that I just got.
  15. Howdy Shull - The fact that there is no stamped number of the block likely means at some point in time the block was cracked or could not be bored out any further and someone bought a replacement block. The casting number on the block and the head actually do not really provide you the information one might hope it does. For the year of the block, on the oil filter side of the block, right close to the oil pan and close to the oil filler there will be the date of casting. It was used for internal purposes as blocks became generational items that often were used over several years and several engine sizes. The last generational change for the 25 1/2" Canadian engine was october 1951.At that point the block was carved internally to allow for the 4 3/4" stroke motor for the 265 ci motor, however that block was also used for the 238 and 250 ci motors. Same block same bore for those 3 just different stroke. After 1955 the year was actually dropped as there was no further block generation. So if your block has a month and day but no year code is was cast after Jan 1955. So your back to the strokes using the method BobK outlined will tell you if it happened to be a 238 (4 1/4" stroke) 250 ( 4 1/2" stroke) and 265 ( 4 3/4" stroke) although you could also have a 228 ci motor or several other cubic inches with a spitfire head on it. As well while the 238, 250 and 265 are 3 7/16" bore stock you would have to remove the head to know for sure the cubic inch. I would however do as BobK suggested as a start. Pull the brass plug and measure the stroke. That really narrows things down quickly. Tim
  16. Sadly this is an idea that may work with other engines, but it most certainly does not work with the flathead. We have done extensive tests. Shortly I will do a complete blog entry on it. But the short version is that when an engine 1st starts up the temperature of the water/antifreeze is the outside air temperature. I dont want to get into a big technical arguement as I know at minus 46 degrees the antifreeze isnt minus 46 so save the comment. Are the water is moved by this plate at start up you are actually drawing heat away from the intake. Heat that even with the split i the exhaust is naturally coming from the exhaust and hitting the intake. Now headers made from stock exhaust actually have a closer profile to the intake than does say fentons, so there is more heat coming from them. But with the water heat attached you have no positive effect until the engine has actually reached close to or reached operating temperature. My then you dont need it. Prior to that point you are actually drawing temperature away from the intake. I can say that with absolute certainty. I have tested it at multiple temperature ranges. Just like I have with the couple of generations of edmunds that offered water heating. So save your time and money. It doesnt work as one might expect and the icing of carbs, Ive heard this story many times and have see many cars do it, but none where flathead mopars until we are talking very cold temperatures which there are some on the forum that drive in them. Absolutely no doubt about that. In that case split your exhaust internally and leave it connected to the intake.
  17. Well here is the wiring diagram (courtesy of George Asche. Yes bypassing the circuit certainly tells you whether that was an issue. The electronic ignition by itself really doesnt have anything to do with anything assuming everything is wired correctly. Ill drop you a pm.
  18. Here is what we use in every vintage overdrive transmission (R6, R7 , R10G1) and every straight vintage 3 speed, 4 speed and yes even the 5 speeds in our heavy 1952-1956 Dodge trucks. We have trannys with over 100,000 miles on them using it, as would the recognized expert in vintage trannys George Asche. He has taken apart a tranny with tens of thousands of miles on it using Fuel Synthetic oil that yes is really designed for Diesel engines and the internals were perfect.
  19. While a pre oil pump or sump design is certainly an improvement, its over kill and definitely not anything your going to need. On pistons, again, for what your talking its over kill. Cast pistons with 4 rings are more than capable of running a couple of hundred thousand miles. Now in terms of original pistons and rings, well right off the bat it depends on what engine your talking about. There were forged pistons and cast pistons, as well as chrome rings and cast rings used over the decades in flathead mopars. But for a discussion on which is better, original 1930-1959 technology verses modern forged pistons and modern rings well there is little question which is better. We use custom pistons are rings all the time. The biggest issue is simple.. They are expensive. But in my 1949 Plymouth or our dragster, they are Venola Top Fuel Pistons, coated with plasma moly rings. They are smaller, lighter, stronger and.... expensive. I will attach a picture of a modern forged piston sitting beside an OEM 265 ci piston from 1954. The last 6 pictures are the pistons we had custom made for the 1933 Plymouth race car, and as you can see the rings are super thin. But back to your engine your describing, you dont need that. You should be able to do a rebuild with decent cast pistons, decent bearings etc and never have to rebuild it again. Even if you want to bore it out a bunch, regrind the cam to some mild custom grind, deck the block, shave the head etc, you dont need pre-oil pump and custom pistons. But then, lol, there is lots I dont really need but I have anyways, so by all means fill your boots.
  20. The challenge he has is the same challenge I have on my 1949 Plymouth Business coupe, and that is the back air cleaner is so close to the firewall. The actual diameter of the air filter is actually only part of the equation when it comes to air filters. Its the total amount of square inches or square feet of media surface that is actually the key number. Obviously the larger the diameter and larger the height the more opportunity there is to utilize filter media. I mention that as on my car I am actually using a custom made filter media which has almost 3 times the total media area of the ones the owner of the 1933 Plymouth put on his car. Improving the air flow is one of the items on the agenda to improve on the car. With the help of a friend were actually working on off setting what are known as 7" round air cleaners. That being said there is nothing wrong with oval designed air cleaners. Would love to have a look at your creation.
  21. A couple of still shots of the dragster and in answer to the question of how about some videos of it running. Well they will be coming and they do already exist, but for a couple of reasons, including an non-disclosure agreement we cant post them publicly at this point. Again, my apologies for the slight wavering from the original thread intent, but I really couldn't resist and have tried to also clarify the relative oiling points I think the originator of the thread was looking for. Tim
  22. Hey John - Just to clarify as I sit here laughing while reading your post, I am definitely not taking over George's business or anything close to that. Ive know George for over 20 years. George has been building performance flathead engines for over 60 years. His 1929 Desoto which he still owns was undefeated at the Flying Mile on Daytona Beach in 1955 at 142 mph. That highly modified 265ci engine was built by George. George built the engines for his Uncle Harry Hiens who is in the nascar hall of fame. Those flathead engines were legendary for beating all kinds of v8s. My family background dates back to my Grandfather who worked for Chrysler starting in the 1930s, my Dad who was also an automotive engineer, who build flathead stock car engines in the 50s and 60s, later moving on to building engines for a number of well known top fuel racers. My background really pales in comparison to all of those, although have grown up around some of the best and brightest in the industry.While I do have an automotive engineering degree, it was definately not where the bulk of my career focused by any stretch. I did run a car in the pro stock class in the 1970s and owned the track record at Toronto International when it closed. While I helped build a couple of engines for that car, it was really as an assistant as it was primarily both of my grandfathers that were the primary builders along with my Dad. I have been fortunate to have known George Asche Jr and he and his family have enjoyed a special bond with my family for a long time. From that yes with George, my Dad Eddy along with a buddy I went to school with and myself we did come up with a couple of performance intakes. As you point out that is likely where George and I are likely better known and your also correct George would be pretty well known for his building of overdrives, carbs, linkage etc. But that really is a tip of the iceberg in many ways. George had built likely 50 performance engines since I have known him, and maybe that is a conservative number. In the last 5 years I know he has build 18 of them. Now I think its safe to say that he would say, as my Dad would have while he was still alive as I would, were always interested in learning more about flathead mopar engines, and improving them. None of use pretend to know everything about them in terms of improving their performance. That being said, let me say this about the topic of oiling. There are lots of things you can do to improve the oiling. 1st thing with any rebuild is to simply turn the two cam bearings from using the big hole, which is how they came from the factory, to using the small hole. There is way more oil hitting the cam than was ever needed. Next make sure you have good oil pressure, which really is a way of saying make sure you have a good oil pump. Yes there were higher volume oil pumps for trucks. Yes we try and use them on higher rpm builds but for 99% of every engine I hear being built its not required. I could go though a bunch of tips but unless your planning on spinning your engine above, let me peg it at 5000 rpm regularly and your running a long stroke engine, you dont need it. Use the small hole in the cam bearing, make sure your have a good oil pump and drive on drive on. In terms of a couple of race engines.. Attached are pictures of a 1933 Plymouth. Its spent its life as a road racer. It was highly competitive at the Brickyard at Indy and was a engine build by a well known engine builder. Its owner found out the hard way that yes there is a portion of the track with a bank on it, and as he rode up the bank to pass a Porsche and a Ferrari he lost oil pressure and it locked up. It literally bent a rod and another rod broke loose and went through the block. George was called on to build the new engine for the car, and what I will say is in this years season, the car which has always been competitive, rose up the ranks significantly and the performance improvements were categorized by its owner as "simply incredible how much additional power it has".. Here is was recently as it has finished off the race season and was brought back to George for some further improvements, including changing the fuel distribution, and changing the rear end gearing. This engine is capable of in excess of 6000rpm and of course another video of the AoK dragster (which for you trivia fans, AoK was a name George came up with.. It stands for Asche over Kingsbury).. and George's official answer to the question of - " how fast is that car".. Answer - "Its faster than the average Echo" Aka The Toyota Echo.. A couple of things off topic I like to note here putting to rest the myth that you need electronic ignition for a performance engine, this engine runs an original Chrysler dual point distributor with points! Yes its been modified, but there is no electronic ignition. Yes we also do have a magneto set up for the car to eliminate the battery but what we were puddling with here is trying to get the idle off of the stall which used to be around 2000 rpm. Now down to just over 1000 rpm, its quite easy to drive. Back to the oiling in the engine. Yes we grooved bearings, and did some internal drilling and modifications to get oil return. We have a windage tray with crank scrapers for pulling off oil as this engine spins well above 7000 rpm.
  23. Well unfortunately my Canadian brother passed away long ago. Beyond that as I said these conversations usually just turn into someone doing exactly what you are doing, and costs me time and energy, and you clearly feel there is nothing wrong with that, like taking a shot at my family or Canadians or whatever point you were attempting to make. Like the reference of sbc chevy cam's suggesting the number of cams likely couldnt be beyond 8. Just on that topic, feel free to do your own research on just marine cams for small block chevys. All that being said, if you took the time just to see the wiki link with the shear number of different flathead 6 mopar engines, then gave it some thought about the shear number of applications the flathead mopar was used in, you should have already concluded that over 80 cam variations and not 8 would be very possible. The fact your reply was "when you have time send me a list of the variations of the first 80 cams......" my conclusion remains that it appears you were and are more interested in causing my work and taking shots than really trying to get information. As such, on this topic, I will not be participating any further.
  24. Your close.. we were talking canadian 25 1/2" engines.. from 1935 to 1959. My Grandfather was hired by Walter Chrysler himself and was an Engineer. My Dad was an automotive engineer, worked on a ton of different chrysler engines, from flatheads to v8s to Hemis and over all kinds of applications and racing. He did not work for Chrysler. My Grandfather was the GM of the engine plant in Windsor Ontario. I do not have all of the stuff grandfather had.. I do have an entire room 12 x 24 feet, set up like a library with rows 8 feet high with documentation. When Grandfather retired, the flathead was no longer even remotely current and as part of his retirement package he was allowed to take home his personal library from the engine plant of all the obsolete stuff. Honestly I have no clue how much there is. its not dozens of manuals. Its not hundreds of manuals, its thousands. I would guess just his work diaries, notes, drawings etc would be several hundred thousands of pages. At one point he offered to give it all to the Chrysler Museum and they passed. He did donate about a couple of pallets of documentation.
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