Oil pan gasket

[Doug&Deb]

I’m thinking my oil leak may be the pan gasket instead of the rear main seal although I’m checking that also. My question is how long to leave the front and rear pan gaskets? I trimmed them slightly and I’m thinking that may have caused the leak. I did use permatex on the corners. 

[9 foot box]

   This is how I put my pan back on. Rick D.

[Bob Riding]

I've never seen that illustration showing the side pan gaskets on top of the front and rear seals before. I've been butting the side gaskets up against the end seals but leaving 1/2" or so sticking up. Hmmm.

[Dodgeb4ya]

The above picture is correct.

Use studs as shown for retaining gaskets in place.

I use pins at gasket to cork ends to hold them together tight.

Small amount of RTV at corners only.

Make sure pan flange is perfectly flat too.

[Doug&Deb]

Interesting. Makes more sense than my way for sure. 

[Doug&Deb]

How do you pin the corners together and where do you put the sealant? Where the ends stick up? I’ll be doing this in the car so I’m not sure how to remove the pins once the pan is in place.

[desoto1939]

I was always told to leave the ends still up in the air to go up inside the block. If you cut the ends flat at the oil pan they will get leaks.  First ever saw you document to lay the side gasket over the top of the end pieces.

 

 

Rich hartung

[Bingster]

I was going to mention that about not cutting those gaskets.

[kencombs]

6 hours ago, Doug&Deb said:

How do you pin the corners together and where do you put the sealant? Where the ends stick up? I’ll be doing this in the car so I’m not sure how to remove the pins once the pan is in place.

The pins don't need to be removed.  They go thru the pan gasket and into the end gasket.  And just get pushed all the way down when it's bolted down.

 

That said, I've never used pins, just a bit of sealer to hold it aligned.  Permatex#2 in the old days, 'The Right Stuff' now.  But, the sealer needs to be partially set before installing, especially in the car, or it could slip around.

[9 foot box]

   The picture I showed was posted by dodgeb4ya on Nov.15,2018. I would do a test try with the six guide studs in the block. I had a little trouble clearing the lower timing cover bolts. I must have used four guide pins, with a slot to remove with a screwdriver. Rick D.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Yeah..

That front motor mount plate/timing cover has the one bolt and nut that needs to be removed for easier front of pan installation.

I learned of this pan install tip from a old Chrysler Dealer mechanic back in the early 70's.

Yes...never cut off those front/rear cork gaskets. Let them stick up with the side pan gaskets laying over the top of the cork gasket ends.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Dodgeb4ya
Spelling

[Dan Hiebert]

Don't know if they include instructions nowadays, but when I installed new gaskets in our D24 many years ago, the Fel-Pro gasket set's instructions cited installing the oil pan gaskets as per the illustration above.  

[Doug&Deb]

So what type of pins and where do you place them? Also does the sealant go where the ends are pinned together? 

[Plymouthy Adams]

31 minutes ago, Doug&Deb said:

So what type of pins and where do you place them? Also does the sealant go where the ends are pinned together? 

just to satisfy my curiosity, does not your computer/smart phone show the pictures of the pan with gaskets and pin locations clearly marked or the picture of the actual pin one easily makes for this application....

[Doug&Deb]

Sorry PA yes it does show the pin location. What sort of pin? Regular sewing straight pins? 

[Plymouthy Adams]

the pins as shown and explained in the pictures are bolts with the heads cut off and slotted for a yankee screwdriver to aid in screw them in and out and show optimum position for effectiveness...thus the pins are GUIDE pins one will create themselves for ensuring the gasket does not shift when placing pan against the block....the narrative and written text with the pictures pretty much explains this step by step

 

see picture posted by 9 foot box.....

Edited June 3, 2023 by Plymouthy Adams

[Sniper]

36 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

the pins as shown and explained in the pictures are bolts with the heads cut off and slotted for a yankee screwdriver to aid in screw them in and out and show optimum position for effectiveness...thus the pins are GUIDE pins one will create themselves for ensuring the gasket does not shift when placing pan against the block....the narrative and written text with the pictures pretty much explains this step by step

 

see picture posted by 9 foot box.....

 

Except what you are calling guide pins are studs, not pins in the drawing.  They hold the gasket in place and guide the pan on during installation.

 

The pins hold the oil seal and gasket together where they meet, they are just plain old sewing pins, two per junction. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

for sure my error.....I was looking at the guide pins...never in my life on any pan gasket have I seen or used pins...so that is new to me also.  Thanks

[Doug&Deb]

I’m still confused about leaving sewing pins in the gasket when tightening but there’s obviously a reason it’s shown that way. I need to get a Plymouth manual. The Dodge manual doesn’t show near as much.

[Sniper]

The Plymouth manual don't do anything more either  Be nice to know where that picture came from, as in what manual.

 

To clarify the purpose of the pins.

 

The rubber U shaped front and rear oil seals go in first.  You then lay the cork gaskets on top of the rubber seal ends and pin them in place to hold them while you install the oil pan.  The pins will simply get pushed deeper into the rubber as you tighten the pan.  I suppose you could glue the cork to the rubber instead of using pins, which i what all the FSM's I have say to do..  Wish someone made a 1 piece oil pan gasket for them.

 

In another thread, some time past, I mentioned I was going to use a smoke machine to check for leaks when I finished the rebuild on my 230.  This gasket setup is one of the reasons why.  I'd rather fix that leak on the engine stand than in the car.

[Doug&Deb]

Okay Sniper that clarified the pins. I assume the sealant goes onto those 4 corners then.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I vaguely recall a T headed pin that was in a Ford gasket kit back when I was a wrench for Ford and the earth had two moons...but the we all remember the difficulty of the oil pan at the timing cover on these engines preventing leaks on a timing chain job due to nylon timing gears.

[Sniper]

2 hours ago, Doug&Deb said:

Okay Sniper that clarified the pins. I assume the sealant goes onto those 4 corners then.

 

To be honest, I read that the cork gaskets get glued, top and bottom, to the pan and pan rails.

 

From my FSM

 

"Before installing the oil pan, clean the pan and the pan rail of the block thoroughly and install new gaskets.  Four gaskets are used as a seal between the oil pan and the cylinder block.  The gaskets are fitted into the fold-over slots of the oil pan ends to allow a more secure fit.  

 

The right and left oil pan side gaskets may be installed with Sealing Compound applied to both sides.  The end gaskets should be installed so that the ends of the gaskets stick out above the oil pan at least 1/8 inch.  Do not cut off the gasket ends.  The ends of the gasket will compress against the block and form a better seal as the oil pan is tightened against the block""

[46BulldogDodge]

Two suggestions...first, the straight pins should be snipped off to a half inch length and pushed into the side gasket and into the end gasket.  Just like a nail would hold a board.  When the oil pan bolts are torqued, that longer end gasket gets compressed in its track making a tighter seal.  Second, regarding sealing compound on the gaskets, others use grease on the block side  for easy removal of the pan at a later time and Permatex Red on the pan side.  Guide studs, as 9 Foot Box shows, make installation easier by lining things up while you're on your back under the car/truck.  I get by with using two studs at the diagonals while I finger tight a couple bolts.  Remove the studs as necessary and DON'T over tighten the bolts.

 

Final thought...before reassembly, check the pan surface is really flat.  Someone previously may have overtightened the bolts distorting the pan.  I use a round drift larger than the bolt's washer and tap the distorted hole perimeters back to flat.  I put the pan upside down on my tablesaw for a reliable flat surface.  

 

 

Dick Hultman

[Matt Wilson]

Talking about not over-tightening the pan bolts, I've always had the tendency to do just that, for fear that the bolts will come out if I don't tighten them enough.  Manuals that provide a torque value for these types of bolts state a really low value, like 10 ft-lbs or so, and that just seems like it will allow the bolts to fall out and oil leakage to begin or worse.  So if we follow the proper recommended torque, what keeps the bolts from coming loose?  Should some type of low-strength thread locker be used?