Fuel mileage

[TodFitch]

4 minutes ago, harmony said:

Is that for regular gas?  Here in Canada we have basically 3 grades.  Regular, mid range, premium, and then there is 94 octane.  There are only a few places near me that carry 94 octane which is what I use, and what most guys with vintage cars/hot rods use.  Our regular is just under $2.00/ litre.  Our 94 octane is about $2.20 / litre.  

You are putting 94 octane into an old Mopar flathead? If so, that sounds like a waste of money.

[harmony]

3 minutes ago, TodFitch said:

You are putting 94 octane into an old Mopar flathead? If so, that sounds like a waste of money.

Why do you say that?

[maok]

My fuel economy always improves when I drive down hills only....:)

 

To be honest, fuel (petrol/gas) is cheap, our prices are between au$1.75 and $2 per litre (us$1.30- $1.60) currently, in 1990 when I was delivering pizza while at uni, it was about $0.90, more than 30 years ago, it just only has doubled, compare it to any other living expense since, fuel is cheap.

[SteveR]

2 hours ago, harmony said:

Here in Canada we have basically 3 grades.  Regular, mid range, premium

`I remember when we went to the Gas station and your choice of gas was, Regular and Ethel

[Sniper]

I just filled up the work truck, $3.89/gal, US.

 

 

[Young Ed]

10 hours ago, OUTFXD said:

I get metric. I like Metric.  I was raised and taught imperial. All my life I measured in inches, feet, Miles,  cups.  This is how I learned to measure the world.

 

Either in a vacume is fine.  When I try to cross over, generally from metric to Imperial (I.e. if I drive 637 Kilometers,  How much is that in Miles?) My head starts to spin and the lights dim.  Its not just changing from one metric to another. its "How does it relate to how *I* measure the world"

If you want a great story on conversion gone wrong read up on the gimli glider. Or give a listen to that episode of the dork o motive podcast

[keithb7]

Doing the calculations we are currently nearing $6.15 US dollars per US gallon. For regular, 89 grade with about 10% ethanol.

[Sniper]

20 minutes ago, Young Ed said:

If you want a great story on conversion gone wrong read up on the gimli glider.

 

Some years ago when the Mars Climatw Orbiter probe destroyed itself when trying to touch down.  The official explanation was that NASA was using SI units and Lockheed was using US customary and that did it in.  I call BS on that because no one in the US uses anything other than SI for technical work like that and hadn't for a long time.

[Sam Buchanan]

9 hours ago, harmony said:

  There are only a few places near me that carry 94 octane which is what I use, and what most guys with vintage cars/hot rods use. 

 

It's a personal choice...but why do you use 94 in your old flattie?

[Kilgore47]

Around here the alcohol free fuel is an extra 75 cents a gallon.  I only use the alcohol free fuel in the 47 Plymouth and the 85 Jeep.  Those two only get driven about 300 miles per year each.  So the extra expense isn't too bad.

[TodFitch]

11 hours ago, harmony said:

Why do you say that?

Octane rating is simply a measure of how prone the fuel is to pre-ignition a.k.a. pinging. As long as the fuel has high enough octane to not ping then going higher does not buy you anything: The energy density of fuel is not dependent on octane rating.

 

A rough rule of thumb for old carbureted engines without fancy variable valve timing and computer controls is that the octane required is about ten times the compression ratio of the engine. The P15 era engines has a 6.6:1 compression ratio and by 1954 the compression ratio was increased to 7.1:1, so that era engine could get by with 65 to 75 octane gas. My 1933 engine with a 5.5:1 compression ratio can probably get by with 55 to 60 octane gas. All of these estimates of required octane rating are less than the low end “regular gas” available in the US and, I assume, in Canada.

[OUTFXD]

1 hour ago, Kilgore47 said:

Around here the alcohol free fuel is an extra 75 cents a gallon.

 

Why do they do that? I mean.  The end goal is to use LESS fuel.  by adding 10% ethanol each "Gallon" only contains 90% Gasoline There by using less fuel.

 

My understanding is that cars get 25% less gas mileage when using Cornsyrup gas there by causing cars to use MORE fuel.

 

If I had the resources I would experiment on this myself but there is no where around here that sells plain ol gasoline.

Edited March 5, 2022 by OUTFXD

[harmony]

1 hour ago, Sam Buchanan said:

 

It's a personal choice...but why do you use 94 in your old flattie?

A couple years ago my fuel pump sprung a leak.  Thankfully I noticed it almost right away since I had the hood up.  It was a gusher out that hole on the back side, meaning gas was getting on the other side of the diaphragm and into the engine oil.  I pulled the pump off and pulled it apart.  The diaphragm was like mush.  I sent it off to Then and Now to be rebuilt and they told me that it was ethanol fuel that destroyed the diaphragm and they replaced it with an upgraded diaphragm that is compatible with ethanol. There are at least two small rubber washers in my EV1 carb.  That might react the same was.

 

During the winter months the car sits for maybe a couple or three weeks without starting up.  This winter it was up on jack stands for 5 months while I did a number of maintenance repairs to her.  I never worried about the stability of the gas when I fired her up yesterday and went for a cruise.  

 

[keithb7]

Here in Canada we have 2 options for fuel without ethanol.  Marine grade which is 92 octane. It’s also illegal to burn it in a non marine vehicle. 
 

The other option is Supreme Plus 94 octane. Only at Chevron. Its priced like nectar for the gods. 
 

So we have the option to break the law and fill jerry cans of marine fuel. Then take them home and fill our vintage cars. Or pay thru the nose for the nectar.  If you run a mechanical fuel pump, stock system you increase the risk for vapor lock in hot weather.  
 

One could choose to add an electric fuel pump to push thru any possible vapor lock. 

I’m all ears for other options. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by keithb7

[harmony]

5 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

Here in Canada we have 2 options for fuel without ethanol.  Marine grade which is 92 octane. It’s also illegal to burn it in a non marine vehicle. 
 

The other option is Supreme Plus 94 octane. Only at Chevron. Its priced like nectar for the gods. 
 

So we have the option to break the law and fill jerry cans of marine fuel. Then take them home and fill our vintage cars. Or pay thru the nose for the nectar.  If you run a mechanical fuel pump, stock system you increase the risk for vapor lock in hot weather.  
 

One could choose to add an electric fuel pump to push thru any possible vapor lock. 

I’m all ears for other options. 

I have been using chevron 94 since I bought the car.  I did put in 91 a couple times just to keep from running out of gas.

I've read that 94 will avoid any vapor locks caused by hot weather.  That might be fact or fiction, plus it never gets super hot around here, so it's really not a factor for me. 

I live on my yacht at a high end marina, surrounded by those mega yachts.  The gas at the pumps is basically the same as gas stations, why? because they can, and most of those "consumers" don't bat an eye at spending around $10,000 for a fill up.

[keithb7]

We get over 100F every summer. Not uncommon to hit above that. Past summer we hit 118F.  No shortage of big hills around here in my town. My town is built on the hills.  Vapor lock is indeed a reality. The engines run pretty warm. The old rads and 4 blade fans can only do so much.  The car can only move up a long hill so fast with a 119 HP flathead.  You just can’t move a lot of air. 

[harmony]

9 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

We get over 100F every summer. Not uncommon to hit above that. Past summer we hit 118F.  No shortage of big hills around here in my town. My town is built on the hills.  Vapor lock is indeed a reality. The engines run pretty warm. The old rads and 4 blade fans can only do so much.  The car can only move up a long hill so fast with a 119 HP flathead.  You just can’t move a lot of air. 

Have you tried the wooden clothes pegs on the fuel line trick to help or eliminate the vapor lock? I've often wondered if that is one of those fact or fiction solutions.

[keithb7]

I’m too proud to put wooden clothes pegs on my fuel lines.  I’ll try almost anything else. Lol. 

[harmony]

16 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

I’m too proud to put wooden clothes pegs on my fuel lines.  I’ll try almost anything else. Lol. 

Imagine how much it would hurt your pride, if it actually worked. I mean you can't even camouflage them.  haha!

[keithb7]

Every time I take one my cars out, I get approached. People ask questions. They want to take photos. Sometimes I pop the hood and proudly display the engine. I beam about Chrysler engineering as I point out the hidden unknown things from 1938. Imagine the embarrassment when I opened the hood to show them clothes pins! Nope. Not gonna happen. Not on my watch Walter P.

Edited March 6, 2022 by keithb7

[SteveR]

14 hours ago, harmony said:

Is that for regular gas?  Here in Canada we have basically 3 grades.  Regular, mid range, premium, and then there is 94 octane.

We have

Premium Unleaded (95 RON)

Super Unleaded (97 / 98 RON)

Diesel

Premium is 20% alcohol

Super is 10% alcohol

[Sniper]

ok, your gas and US gas calculate octane differently.  We use the average of RON (research octane) and MON (motor octane). 

 

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/gasoline/octane-in-depth.php

 

"The (R+M)/2 you see on the label refers to the average of the research octane number (RON) and the motor octane number (MON) ratings. To determine the RON, the fuel is tested under engine idle conditions with a low air temperature and slow engine speed. To determine the MON the fuel is tested under the more stressful conditions of higher air temperature and engine speed."

 

Which explains why my old 64 300 was picky about who's Super it ran. 

[lepic56]

There is this site who helps find Ethanol-free gas station across North-American,

up here on the eastern part of Canada, most 91/94 octane gas sold by well-know gas station is Ethanol-free,  and lucky for me the Costco in my town sell 87 & 91 Ethanol-free,, 

As for the price,, as today,,  with all the calculations it turn-out to be about $5.22 a US gallon, and Monday it will go up again, the radio just said,  Montréal is already  at the $2 mark a litre,, ($5.88us).. wow that's crazy;

on my 51 Dodge, I used 87 at Costco and 91 every where else..

here the link,,   up to date I don't know??

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada (pure-gas.org)

[Sam Buchanan]

7 hours ago, harmony said:

A couple years ago my fuel pump sprung a leak.  Thankfully I noticed it almost right away since I had the hood up.  It was a gusher out that hole on the back side, meaning gas was getting on the other side of the diaphragm and into the engine oil.  I pulled the pump off and pulled it apart.  The diaphragm was like mush.  I sent it off to Then and Now to be rebuilt and they told me that it was ethanol fuel that destroyed the diaphragm and they replaced it with an upgraded diaphragm that is compatible with ethanol. There are at least two small rubber washers in my EV1 carb.  That might react the same was.

 

During the winter months the car sits for maybe a couple or three weeks without starting up.  This winter it was up on jack stands for 5 months while I did a number of maintenance repairs to her.  I never worried about the stability of the gas when I fired her up yesterday and went for a cruise.  

 

 

Ok....I don't believe you mentioned in your first post that the 94 you purchase is non-contaminated.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Sam Buchanan

[Los_Control]

Not important, just noticing not one person yet reported there actual gas mileage.

 

My 1987 Ford work van I got 8 mpg, I just could not avoid it and drove it for 10 years.

 

When I retired I now have a 1991 chevy with a 5spd manual trans, I get 16 mpg I doubled my mpg.

 

Seems nobody with a old mopar has checked their actual mileage.