Do you get what you pay for?

[harmony]

I'm about to order some wheel seals for my 48 Chrysler. I don't see any substantial leak at the pinion or the carrier gasket, but it sort of makes sense to get them to be prepared down the road. Not sure about protocol on here about naming suppliers, so I'll go for it and if this gets deleted that should tell me.  Mopar mall sells a set that includes inner and outer seals and a pinion seal and the carrier gasket for $98 US.  Andy Bernbaum sells them individually for a total of $48 US.  This is not the first time I've had this huge price difference between these two suppliers.  Brake shoes are more than twice as much from Mopar Mall.  When I quizzed them on that they said that was because they were made in USA.  I'm wondering if the same might apply as far as where the seals are made. I really don't want to go through the effort to install new seals if they are cheap and leak.  Another example that is on my purchasing list is a regulator.  Mopar Mall $137  Andy Bermbaum $89 . 

I have ordered several times from both companies before.  I have found a few issues with the accuracy of some things from AB.  One example was the distributor cap from AB. My plug wire boots were extremely sloppy when installed onto the AB distributor cap.

Do you get what you pay for?

[Plymouthy Adams]

to be honest with you.....I am not so sure the parts today are not made but by one company who packages it in the box of the supplier you buy it from.  These old cars are not anywhere near daily driver and the common repair items are even less in demand than ever in the past.  For a company to start up just making a simple rotor button would be quite the cost for them to get to a break even on sales.

 

My last parts order just came in....order was not correctly pulled and packed.....two of one and none of the other so while they have shipped one out to me per the phone call this morning....it will be a minimum one week setback...this is what kills me with dealing with suppliers....their error really screws up my work schedule.

[allbizz49]

If I can find any parts I need made here. I buy them. I'll pay more to help keep my neighbors working. Any time I've settled for foriegn parts on my old American iron, I was highly disappointed and chucked them. Driving and maintaining old stuff isn't cheap anyways, what's a few more bucks 

[Plymouthy Adams]

I agree...but finding these parts these days is getting harder and harder to do and the companies you used to rely on for the good stuff has had to start relying on the OS makers just to keep stock on hand....this is the trend, this is the bad news to the man on the street.

[harmony]

6 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

to be honest with you.....I am not so sure the parts today are not made but by one company who packages it in the box of the supplier you buy it from.  These old cars are not anywhere near daily driver and the common repair items are even less in demand than ever in the past.  For a company to start up just making a simple rotor button would be quite the cost for them to get to a break even on sales.

 

My last parts order just came in....order was not correctly pulled and packed.....two of one and none of the other so while they have shipped one out to me per the phone call this morning....it will be a minimum one week setback...this is what kills me with dealing with suppliers....their error really screws up my work schedule.

I'm always cautious so I want to be sure.  One other supplier had a very clear photo of the regulator.  However there was a sticker on the cover identifying the terminals as to where they go.  It is the style with all 3 terminals on the left side.  The sticker was upside down, so it showed the BAT as being the top terminal and the ARM as being the bottom terminal.  When I tried to get clarification on the phone I discovered that the automated reply that sends you on what seems to be a never ending button pushing exercise, bluntly said that they do not offer phone customer service.  When I emailed them for an explanation I got a "form" type explanation, followed up by saying, I get what is in the picture.  That's was their explanation.

[Plymouthy Adams]

customer service is only found in the dictionary and not on the same page....

[harmony]

7 minutes ago, allbizz49 said:

If I can find any parts I need made here. I buy them. I'll pay more to help keep my neighbors working. Any time I've settled for foreign parts on my old American iron, I was highly disappointed and chucked them. Driving and maintaining old stuff isn't cheap anyways, what's a few more bucks 

I definitely agree with buying stuff made in North America.  But as Plymouthy Adams points out, for the most part, parts are made in the same OS factory anyways.  I think I might be inclined to spend more for the regulator if I'm assured it was made in USA.  As for the seals, The rubber might be manufactured in USA and then sent OS to be assembled, or vise versa and that might allow the supplier to claim it's made in USA. 

[Kilgore47]

Maybe this is true or maybe it's not.  I remember hearing a story about a country naming one of their cities USA.  Then they could say that their stuff was made in USA.

[harmony]

On the flip side in respect to customer service, I was looking at a brake light switch in a Roberts Motors catalog I have here last week.  The illustration shows it as having two male connecting prongs, which is what I need.  But I wanted to be sure, so I emailed Roberts Motors.  I was shocked when I got a reply that said, no they actually stocked the one male one female type and the sales guy actually went out into the warehouse, and brought back the switch to his desk and then took a picture of the switch with his keyboard in the background for me to see what he had.  Now that's what I call old school customer service.  I mean he knew right away that he was loosing a sale because he had in his hand what I didn't want, but he was thorough and professional enough to follow through.

Edited May 24, 2021 by harmony

[kencombs]

23 minutes ago, Kilgore47 said:

Maybe this is true or maybe it's not.  I remember hearing a story about a country naming one of their cities USA.  Then they could say that their stuff was made in USA.

I've heard that story too.  It's not true as the rules are very clear, the product must be marked with its country of origin.

[keithb7]

Parts Tip: Rear inner axle seals.   Your local Caterpillar equipment dealer has these. Direct fit replacement seal.  Part number 2B-1869. Much savings $$$ too. These are a decent quality seal. 
 

There are probably 350 plus Caterpillar dealers in North America. Active and doing good business today.  They look after probably a million pieces of Cat equipment. Likely thats a low guess. Economy of scale. They might  be building 10,000 of these seals per year. Again, guessing.  Call up your local dealer. Report back and let us know the price in the USA. 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by keithb7

[harmony]

7 minutes ago, keithb7 said:

Parts Tip: Rear inner axle seals.   Your local Caterpillar equipment dealer has these. Direct fit replacement seal.  Part number 2B-1869. Much savings $$$ too. These are a decent quality seal. 

 

 

Do they also have a match for the outer seal Keith? 

Edited May 24, 2021 by harmony

[keithb7]

I have not matched that one up. I got my outer seals from Rock Auto. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

I just got a follow up from the company on my incorrectly sent part...the new one is being shipped....do not send the old one back as first requested....it will cost them as much as the part is worth I am sure.  Their error he said and asked ONLY that I send a photograph instead for their QA folks for writing off as a business loss I suppose.  While I still have to wait for the new part....at least I will not have to wait for them to reimburse me shipping....

 

I last had an issue with a company in Texas...however....I have never seen a better customer service department in years....they were dead on top the issue and made it right...and did it very quickly also....

[desoto1939]

ok i AGREE WITH EVERYONE COMMENTS ONTHE TOPIC OF PARTS.

This is why I have been collecting and scanning the old auto manufacturers parts catalogs over the past 35 years.  I always verify what a seller is selling on ebay such as a volt reulatorg to make sure it is the correct Autolite number or Echlin or Blue Streak part number.

 

I have suggested to many members to get copies of the old catalogs so that you can verify what you are looking for and also when you go to swap meets so you can look for the good old American made parts and not rely on the Over sea junk.

 

Most of the older USA parts are still available and yes you have to do your homework but when you have done the homework youknow what you are getting.  When purchasing off of Ebay or another site I always ask detailed questions of the seller about the part. If you know your car and also the part you are looking for by asking the details you can then be pretty sure you are getting the part and it will be correct.  So when I take the time to purchase a catalog and then the time to scan it into my computer, purchase CD or flash drives and then send it to people they expect it to be almost for free.  Yes this is a hobby for all of use but most people do not want to spend any time or effort to learn or get the correct catalogs or manuals.

 

The newer car owners purchase an antique car and have not done any research on the car and when they get the car delivered they find it is in worse condition than they thought. Then they are scrambling for patch panels, electrical parts, tires, etc. and to make it even worse then they expect everyone else to given them the information for free on where to get parts.

 

There is the internet and yes it is such a fantastic tool to get information, so yes use it wisely.  I see so many new antique car owners getting the car or truck ask basic question and they have not taken the time to purchase the service and or parts manual. These can be found as reprints but they do not want to spend the $ to acquire the catalogs, they want everyone else to do their work for them.  This is how the hobby has changed, give me the information I do not want to spend the time to learn or get the knowledge, the ME Generation just GIVE IT TO ME and NOW.

 

I do not mid answering questions from a new owner but when they have not done any leg work on their own or as per my comment above it is annoying to everyone that they have not research the issue.  The older owners learned by  trying to fix the issue joined car clubs and shared the knowledge at the car club meeting, even this is changing.

 

Most newer car club members have a car but know nothing about the car and most of the time they do not even show up at the meeting and or any events.

 

I now stepping down off of my soapbox.

 

Rich Hartung

 

[sidevalvepete]

11 minutes ago, desoto1939 said:

ok i AGREE WITH EVERYONE COMMENTS ONTHE TOPIC OF PARTS.

This is why I have been collecting and scanning the old auto manufacturers parts catalogs over the past 35 years.  I always verify what a seller is selling on ebay such as a volt reulatorg to make sure it is the correct Autolite number or Echlin or Blue Streak part number.

 

I have suggested to many members to get copies of the old catalogs so that you can verify what you are looking for and also when you go to swap meets so you can look for the good old American made parts and not rely on the Over sea junk.

 

Most of the older USA parts are still available and yes you have to do your homework but when you have done the homework youknow what you are getting.  When purchasing off of Ebay or another site I always ask detailed questions of the seller about the part. If you know your car and also the part you are looking for by asking the details you can then be pretty sure you are getting the part and it will be correct.  So when I take the time to purchase a catalog and then the time to scan it into my computer, purchase CD or flash drives and then send it to people they expect it to be almost for free.  Yes this is a hobby for all of use but most people do not want to spend any time or effort to learn or get the correct catalogs or manuals.

 

The newer car owners purchase an antique car and have not done any research on the car and when they get the car delivered they find it is in worse condition than they thought. Then they are scrambling for patch panels, electrical parts, tires, etc. and to make it even worse then they expect everyone else to given them the information for free on where to get parts.

 

There is the internet and yes it is such a fantastic tool to get information, so yes use it wisely.  I see so many new antique car owners getting the car or truck ask basic question and they have not taken the time to purchase the service and or parts manual. These can be found as reprints but they do not want to spend the $ to acquire the catalogs, they want everyone else to do their work for them.  This is how the hobby has changed, give me the information I do not want to spend the time to learn or get the knowledge, the ME Generation just GIVE IT TO ME and NOW.

 

I do not mid answering questions from a new owner but when they have not done any leg work on their own or as per my comment above it is annoying to everyone that they have not research the issue.  The older owners learned by  trying to fix the issue joined car clubs and shared the knowledge at the car club meeting, even this is changing.

 

Most newer car club members have a car but know nothing about the car and most of the time they do not even show up at the meeting and or any events.

 

I now stepping down off of my soapbox.

 

Rich Hartung

 

I concur with a lot of what you say Rich......but then you come across a fellow like nickpictoo and you can't help but want to give him some support and encouragement.

[Dartgame]

Over 40 years ago I installed a TRW timing set for a small block mopar. I installed it according to the timing marks on the pieces. Guess what - the marks were off by one tooth. Engine ran, but I sensed it was running oddly. Tore it apart and voila, discovered the marking issue. Since then I always check cam centerlines. Bottom line - assuming TRW parts were made in the US back then, there is no guarantee of quality regardless of where it was produced. But in general anything electrical made today for the aftermarket especially from overseas is a gamble. I've had new water pumps fail because of the impeller loosening on the shaft after installation as well.

[harmony]

I'm finding similar disappointments with one of the car clubs I'm in, in regarding to what Rich was just ranting about.  For me I am a sponge for any new info on my car or any vintage car for that matter.  I've been that way since I was around 10 years old.  I used to love testing myself on identifying cars when we were out on the weekly "Sunday drives" I could barely see out the window of my dads car, but one glimpse at the grill or taillights and I pretty much had it nailed after awhile.  I'm puzzled when I ask a club member if their car has matching numbers and they have no idea what I mean? Let alone what's even under the hood.

However on the flip side I was just parking my 48 Chrysler just yesterday and a young girl came up to me and we started chatting.  I was surprised when she asked if I would pop the hood.  Turns out she is a mechanic in training.  Not sure of her age, since up here in Canada we're all still wearing masks but I'd guess she was 20 ish.  She wanted to see the flathead and had a ton of questions about it.  So there is still hope.

[soth122003]

59 minutes ago, sidevalvepete said:

I concur with a lot of what you say Rich......but then you come across a fellow like nickpictoo and you can't help but want to give him some support and encouragement.

I also agree with Rich and Sidevalvepete. The difference with some one like Nickpictoo, is here is a young man who has a father with a good head on his shoulders helping his son. Not by doing everything for him but letting him do for himself and making mistakes and learning from them. Nick doesn't really ask dumb questions. He may ask how to's on occasion but it seems alot of his questions are on where to get x. He will also list a couple of sources to show he is looking, but what I think he wants is a group opinion of who is the best, i.e. do it right the first time thing. Nick is an example of a young man who wants to learn but doesn't yet have the experience and wisdom? that older members have. He is the type of person you want to encourage not discourage. 

 

Joe Lee

[Plymouthy Adams]

I would say for the most part you do not get what you paid for except in face value alone....you may get a distributor cap...but it may be poorly made so you paid for a cap and you got the cap only the cap was not a good representation of what you were expecting.   My wife ordered a cover for the log splitter...advertized as correct fit, heavy duty and stand up to any task.  I have seen trash can bags built better.  So she did not get what she paid for.  After 5 days I sent a inquiry to a part on e-bay....I had no shipping details.  I asked if was overlooked.  I got a reply, not overlooked, it ships today and still supposed to be here Wednesday.....that pig better have some good wings.    Service is going downhill like a runaway train.

 

 

[Los_Control]

I think it might be possible there is as many answers here as there are opinions. And that really is perfect.

 

@desoto1939 I get it, Do your homework! I personally would be concerned which NOS parts I bought off ebay. Are those 70 year old bonded brakes shoes still glued? Is that ignition coil still filled with oil and ready to work? Are those 70 year old seals soft & pliable? Normal maintenance items I would be concerned about 70 year old parts.

While many parts it is a blessing to be able to even find them and use them. Yes ebay is good for certain things but not a cure all.

Next is the books, I get it. Again they do not always tell you what you need.

A perfect example, A few weeks ago was a question about firing order on a Dodge flathead 6. Motor's auto repair manual does not show it in Dodge, Chrysler section but @Plymouthy Adams found that if you switch to the plymouth section and can find firing order for same engine.  It is just not a perfect world and noobies like myself need help navigating through it.

 

@Plymouthy Adams I agree with you, I think most parts are made from the same factory and labeled for the buyer.

 

@keithb7 I think this is what we really need to do to source parts for our old vehicles. Pull the seal & take it to a shop that sells seals. Let them match up the #.

Got a Timken bearing?, take it to a bearing supplier and let them match it up. You also found that out with steering boxes. Same with Transmissions.

They were made by different manufacturers, borg warner or whoever, for Dodge, ford, chevy but they were using easily available seals & bearings. Most but not all are still available today.

[Sniper]

7 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

Pull the seal & take it to a shop that sells seals. Let them match up the #.

Got a Timken bearing?, take it to a bearing supplier and let them match it up.

 

Exactly, years ago I used to work in an semiconductor R&D plant keeping their machines running.  One machine had a high speed spinner that would need the bearings replaced about twice a year  The machine maker's rebuild kit was like $1500 that consisted of two bearings, a few wave washers and some snap rings.  When to the local bearing house and not only was I able to duplicate the kit for under $100, but they worked with me on a high speed version of the bearing that lasted much longer.  Time down was money lost as they say.  If you live anywhere near Ag country there is a good bearing house nearby and they should be able to handle matching the seals up too.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Sniper

[Booger]

4 hours ago, desoto1939 said:

ok i AGREE WITH EVERYONE COMMENTS ONTHE TOPIC OF PARTS.

This is why I have been collecting and scanning the old auto manufacturers parts catalogs over the past 35 years.  I always verify what a seller is selling on ebay such as a volt reulatorg to make sure it is the correct Autolite number or Echlin or Blue Streak part number.

 

I have suggested to many members to get copies of the old catalogs so that you can verify what you are looking for and also when you go to swap meets so you can look for the good old American made parts and not rely on the Over sea junk.

 

Most of the older USA parts are still available and yes you have to do your homework but when you have done the homework youknow what you are getting.  When purchasing off of Ebay or another site I always ask detailed questions of the seller about the part. If you know your car and also the part you are looking for by asking the details you can then be pretty sure you are getting the part and it will be correct.  So when I take the time to purchase a catalog and then the time to scan it into my computer, purchase CD or flash drives and then send it to people they expect it to be almost for free.  Yes this is a hobby for all of use but most people do not want to spend any time or effort to learn or get the correct catalogs or manuals.

 

The newer car owners purchase an antique car and have not done any research on the car and when they get the car delivered they find it is in worse condition than they thought. Then they are scrambling for patch panels, electrical parts, tires, etc. and to make it even worse then they expect everyone else to given them the information for free on where to get parts.

 

There is the internet and yes it is such a fantastic tool to get information, so yes use it wisely.  I see so many new antique car owners getting the car or truck ask basic question and they have not taken the time to purchase the service and or parts manual. These can be found as reprints but they do not want to spend the $ to acquire the catalogs, they want everyone else to do their work for them.  This is how the hobby has changed, give me the information I do not want to spend the time to learn or get the knowledge, the ME Generation just GIVE IT TO ME and NOW.

 

I do not mid answering questions from a new owner but when they have not done any leg work on their own or as per my comment above it is annoying to everyone that they have not research the issue.  The older owners learned by  trying to fix the issue joined car clubs and shared the knowledge at the car club meeting, even this is changing.

 

Most newer car club members have a car but know nothing about the car and most of the time they do not even show up at the meeting and or any events.

 

I now stepping down off of my soapbox.

 

Rich Hartung

 

no soap box,  Rich. None at all. I am old school. which is why we are all here. Is it too much to ask for a fair price and an equivilant product? I say no.

did you your best at work? absolutly and I expected nothing less from the people I was associated with. customer relationship is all you got. I told that to the Postal Service. They showed me the door.

[harmony]

2 hours ago, Sniper said:

 

Exactly, years ago I used to work in an semiconductor R&D plant keeping their machines running.  One machine had a high speed spinner that would need the bearings replaced about twice a year  The machine maker's rebuild kit was like $1500 that consisted of two bearings, a few wave washers and some snap rings.  When to the local bearing house and not only was I able to duplicate the kit for under $100, but they worked with me on a high speed version of the bearing that lasted much longer.  Time down was money lost as they say.  If you live anywhere near Ag country there is a good bearing house nearby and they should be able to handle matching the seals up too.

Like Plymouthy Adams said, service is going down hill like a run away train. In todays world, at least around here, if I was to walk into a parts store and show them a seal they would walk over to computer and go into robot mode. What year and make, they would ask.  Once I told them it was for a 1948, they would look at me like I was an alien.  Unless the staff at most stores can find something on the computer first they have no interest in finding it regardless of what it is.  If I was to find a specialized store that carried just seals and bearings, I honestly think that even if they did make an effort to help it would only last for a minute or two.  Unless you were to find someone whose hair colour had started to change to white. 

On the flip side of making an effort, just last week I was looking for a SS ball for my EV1 carter B&B carb.  It's the smallest of the 3 balls needed at 5/64" dia. I was running out of places to try and find one. Then I got a tip to maybe try a bicycle shop.  Sure enough they carry them, but when I got to the counter they didn't have any in stock.  The guy said how many do you need?  I said just one to be honest.  He said come on back tomorrow, I have some at home. The following day he gave me half a dozen at no charge.  I suppose that was a mix of customer service and someone who just happened to be a really nice guy.

[Booger]

2 hours ago, Sniper said:

 

Exactly, years ago I used to work in an semiconductor R&D plant keeping their machines running.  One machine had a high speed spinner that would need the bearings replaced about twice a year  The machine maker's rebuild kit was like $1500 that consisted of two bearings, a few wave washers and some snap rings.  When to the local bearing house and not only was I able to duplicate the kit for under $100, but they worked with me on a high speed version of the bearing that lasted much longer.  Time down was money lost as they say.  If you live anywhere near Ag country there is a good bearing house nearby and they should be able to handle matching the seals up too.

few people possess the mechanical skills you do, Sniper.. simple to see. as for me I can wrench..Im no Mechanic.. but coming here and sharing the wealth of knowledge is awesome! Learning from some of the best, new and old. I know the newbies dig it.  I sure do after 50 yrs of Flatties.Where else do you find this info? thanks for sharing, everyone