I am at a cross road

[laynrubber]

Something needs to change and I am looking for ideas.

Here is where I am....

Rebuilt the flathead, it runs real nice and looks real pretty. This along with fixed up wiring, new rad, new clutch.....lots of all new stuff. Installed a R10 overdrive and here is where I am not satisfied. For this car to be driveable and not blow up again the highway revs need to get down. So I installed the OD, and it isn't working. Keeps blowing the fuse, when the lever is pulled out it still will freewheel but only sometimes, and then there is no reverse. I assume the solenoid is blowing the fuse and that isn't a cheap fix or maybe the governor. I haven't done trouble shooting yet. I don't like the ball and trunnion driveshaft, brand new boot didn't last 400 miles and it failed. Now I think the new ball and trunnion parts I installed are damaged too. Grrrr.

Re-engine isn't my first choice $$$$$ but I am thinking a different transmission set up.

What is out there to get the revs down on the highway ?

T5 ? I see a kit to install a Chevy automatic. Both would get rid of the ball and trunnion driveshaft, which might mean a different rear end too.

I know another option is going to cost some bucks but this gearbox has run its course for me. Have yet to make it work.

The idea with the car is for us to tow our little fiberglass camper, maybe this drivetrain isn't good for that anyway. I know I don't like the 6 volt system as I have to change all the trailer lights to 6 volts and back to 12 when I use a different tow vehicle.

I thought about selling the car but no one wants a 4 door and we still like the car.

Looking for ideas.....

 

[casper50]

Don't personally know about the chevy auto but I've read where the flathead 6 just doesn't have enough power for it and large hills.

 

[kencombs]

IMO, your overdrive is the right solution.  Just troubleshoot the issues and it'll be fine.

 

The first step would be to check all the wiring to insure it is good and correct.  Then test the governor and solenoid.  You may have to repair or replace a part or two, but that's certainly faster and less expensive that the other alternatives.  I'm with you on the ball and trunnion, not my favorite, but when installed correctly they last a long time, your car is how old:?

[laynrubber]

Ken the car is a 52 with the 25" 6. Canadian car. New from rad to last u joint, plus disc brake added to front. I have towed with the previous engine and straight 3 speed....it did ok but not a power house.

[JerseyHarold]

The Imperial Club website has Chrysler training books with filmstrips online.  Several deal with the then-new overdrive and might help.  Here's a link to the index page:  

http://imperialclub.org/Repair/Lit/Films/index49.htm#1952

[motterso]

"Tech" is the best! His gritty good sense is very educational.

Thanks for the link to that index - lots of good stuff there.

[kencombs]

21 minutes ago, laynrubber said:

Ken the car is a 52 with the 25" 6. Canadian car. New from rad to last u joint, plus disc brake added to front. I have towed with the previous engine and straight 3 speed....it did ok but not a power house.

My question was rhetorical, just to illustrate the longegivity of the ball and trunnion.

 

When new, OD trans were always paired with lower numerically rear gears.  that provided better acceleration and towing capability than normal 3 speeds.

OD rear ends are hard to find, but pickups normally have lower gears and would be a potential donor source.

[pflaming]

Is the 3:93 rear end an overdrive rear end? I have one, an extra, too lazy to check the charts. 

Edit, this is the chart I'm familiar Ithaca.

Edited August 24, 2018 by pflaming

[Young Ed]

20 minutes ago, pflaming said:

Is the 3:93 rear end an overdrive rear end? I have one, an extra, too lazy to check the charts. 

3:93 works great with OD but the stock was 4:1

[pflaming]

Sometimes the rolling hills small mountainous areas had 4:11's when the plains had 3:73’s . Lots of switching around back then

[pflaming]

I'm confident that a good knowledge of how to drive an OD, a 3:73,would be great pulling a small vintage trailer. 

I will sell my Suburban without an OD even though I have an extra one. A straight three speed is nearly impossible to ruin and I don't want any call backs.,

Edited August 24, 2018 by pflaming

[Dodgeb4ya]

I had a 1953 Plymouth Savoy wagon with a  very low mileage 1955 230 engine I put in it with factory OD and stock 4.1 rear end ratio. Worked fine with the hills around Seattle area.

I thought for extended freeway use I should put a 3.73 ratio in it. Well it did fairly OK till I got to the long up hill grades and the wagon with a load was way too much for the 230.

I went back to the 4.1 and drove it like that for nearly 80,000 trouble free miles. 

I've driven OD's for years with no issues as long as you keep em full of oil front and rear.

[P15-D24]

Couple things, first overdrive and towing not a good idea. Second, 4.1 is way better for a tow vehicle. Regarding the u-joints, either they were installed incorrectly or consider upgrading to a more modern (and serviceable) setup. And good local drive line company should be able to take care of the job, or check POC or Hemmings. Your fuse problem has nothing to do with towing, just work the issue. In the Downloads section is a wiring diagram. It is a pretty simple circuit and shouldn't be that hard to trouble shoot. (I suspect a shorted field coil in the solenoid.)  You never mention the weight of the trailer, or if you have any braking issues. ( If your going to do this a lot I would probably add surge brakes on the trailer, or convert to 12v and got with electrics.)  The 6 to 12 volt light switch problem is easy, just get a set of magnetic clip ons for when you run with 6 volts. Also any issues with overheating?  A good engine will run all day long at 3500 rpm and that should be good for 60-65 on flat roads. Solving all of these will still be cheaper than dong a swap to a Chevy 6 which  I don't think will buy you much if anything. If your going to do a swap go to a VB.  I've personally twice towed my boat (2k pounds) to a lake in the Sierras at 7,600 feet in over 100 degrees temperature. Actually pretty extreme, wasn't fast or comfortable, but we made it both times without any issues. Radiator got pretty hot, but didn't boil over, and brakes were a little sketchy in a couple sections coming down the mountain, but in the valley we were running 60 all day on the interstate.  This was without an overdrive, stock P15 three speed.  

[dpollo]

My 51 Plymouth Convertible, 50 Plymouth sedan and 51 Fargo  all have R10 Overdrives  all use 3.9 to 1 rear gears. The  truck and the convert tip the scale at 3600 pounds each.

Performance is excellent and we have a lot of hills here in BC.

 

as for your fuse problem..... you are not trying to use  12 volts on a 6 volt  solenoid are you ?    In any event the solenoid  is likely the culprit.

[martybose]

I'm concerned with the statement that there is no reverse if the OD cable is pulled.  This shouldn't be possible, as the OD transmission has an extended shaft on the reverse shaft so that the act of putting the transmission in reverse will force the OD unit to disengage so that it locks up to enable the car to move backwards instead of spinning the overrunning clutch uselessly.  This sounds like there is a fundamental problem with the transmission/overdrive mechanical interface.

 

Marty

[laynrubber]

Truthfully I don’t know or remember what the rear ratio is. Maybe I’m just frustrated at this point for all the work I have put into the car to still have it not functional. At this point I don’t know if I should keep flogging this marginal choice for what I want the car to do. Mrs is saying fix it so she can drive it....or get her something she can drive. I can fix the blowing fuse. I am sure it is the solenoid. Everything is 6 volts. The trailer weights around 2000 pounds loaded and I have towed it before with the previous engine and straight 3 spd with drum brakes....it did ok. Now I have discs on front and as for cooling the engine is fresh rebuild with new rad...lots of rad I think.

Things that are bugging me about the car......

6 volts, yes it works but to drive it can’t charge cell phones when on a long trip, trailer lighting issues and away from home electrical issues (remote  of parts of Canada eh).

Ball and trunion, a minor issue as they are both new but for away from home repairs are tough. 

100 horsepower, engine is as mentioned rebuilt but I am concerned about its longevity with all the expected hwy driving (3500 plus rpm) and it’s life as a tow machine. 

Overdrive, can I tow in 3rd over, why is it freewheeling when disengaged and why is reverse sometimes absent.

[P15-D24]

My .02 worth...

Convert to 12 volts, not a big deal, many have done it. (Just make sure your wringing is in good servicable condition) 

Convert to more modern u-joint set up. Again, not a big deal, many have done it.  

The engine, with a good rebuild should last no problem. Big issue with any tow rig is heat and that is what will cause other problems. Make sure your temp gauge is accurate. 

Sounds like your override has some mechanical issues and needs repair. Have you downloaded the factory manual off the Downloads page?  Again, I wouldn't tow in overdrive, think your going to push the engine RPMs down to far and out of the power band. 

[pflaming]

"I thought for extended freeway use I should put a 3.73 ratio in it. Well it did fairly OK till I got to the long up hill grades and the wagon with a load was way too much for the 230." 

 

I would think 2nd and 2nd in OD would deliver a great towing ratio even with a 3:73.  What were you towing? 

[Plymouthy Adams]

8 minutes ago, pflaming said:

"I thought for extended freeway use I should put a 3.73 ratio in it. Well it did fairly OK till I got to the long up hill grades and the wagon with a load was way too much for the 230." 

 

I would think 2nd and 2nd in OD would deliver a great towing ratio even with a 3:73.  What were you towing? 

I don't recall you having that wagon on the highway and using it....when was this?

[Dodgeb4ya]

Hauling a straight 8/ M5/ Bluebird hoist/front seat/ a 300lb passenger and a 3.36 rear axle....

[kencombs]

5 minutes ago, pflaming said:

"I thought for extended freeway use I should put a 3.73 ratio in it. Well it did fairly OK till I got to the long up hill grades and the wagon with a load was way too much for the 230." 

 

I would think 2nd and 2nd in OD would deliver a great towing ratio even with a 3:73.  What were you towing? 

Interesting fact:  When I was in high school a lot of my friends had Ford and Merc's w/OD.  All of them would run faster in 2nd/OD than 3rd/OD.  I wouldn't hesitate to tow in 2nd/OD for short periods.  Engines just were too far down in their power band and not enough torque to accelerate any further.

I later confirmed that with my own OD's.  One of the things I really like with OD, is the ability to wire it to a switch instead of the kickdown.  It then becomes, for operational purposes, a 5 speed with auto shifts between two gears in 2nd and 3rd.  Driving in slower traffic, 2nd gear, and auto shift in out of OD is great. Only have to shift when stopped.   Also when in OD and freewheeling to a stop, it's almost like a full syncho as you can downshift into 1st with out clashing gears.

[Dodgeb4ya]

That 53 Savoy hauled a complete  4 ton  DT  trans and R300 Timkin rear axle in one load trip too from Walla Walal Washington to Seattle. 1500+ lbs easy.

I loved to travel and part cars and trucks out all over Washington state back in the 70's and early 80's. The suspension and tires were modified and very heavy duty.

Stock brakes that worked very well. I drove that car every day.

It was a road warrior...still have it but it's days are done.

[1950 Special Deluxe]

Shaune,

Don’t give up yet.

You are close.

I still need that side by side picture of our cars.

I am surprised that you have the ball and trunnion U Joints.

My 50 Dodge had the regular U Joints, they crossed over to an early Corvette number.

Good Luck

Neil

[Merle Coggins]

I was at a Cross Road a few weeks ago...

[Plymouthy Adams]

18 minutes ago, 1950 Special Deluxe said:

Shaune,

Don’t give up yet.

You are close.

I still need that side by side picture of our cars.

I am surprised that you have the ball and trunnion U Joints.

My 50 Dodge had the regular U Joints, they crossed over to an early Corvette number.

Good Luck

Neil

whoa whoa and double whoa.......as the 50 Dodge is a few years before any Corvette went into production...the correct thing to say is that the early Corvette uses 50 Dodge u-joints...and that my friend is how you tell a Mopar story.......