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My First Car -- P15 1947 Plymouth Deluxe


NickPickToo
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One thought to try that worked for me some years ago-

Loosen the rear mounts and give some healthy pushes towards the rear. The front mount ears actually will give some, Maybe the small amount  needed to clear a proper sized belt that runs  Level or slightly below the pulley top edge?

 

DJ

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Nick............the engine sounds great, reminds me of when I first started the 318 Poly in the 40 Dodge ..........1am without any exhaust at all........not even manifolds........flames shooting 18" out of each port..........lol....woke up all the neighbours.........lol............regarding your pulley/engine mount clearance issue.........I have a vague memory that the holes in the frame that the U bolts for the engine mount go thru are elongated or slotted...........can you check that your U bolts are not sitting towards the front of these holes letting the engine sit slightly forward than it should be..........just went and checked my 1940 Dodge and the engine mount frame holes ARE SLOTTED on my car, they are about 1" long by 1/2" wide so you may have your U bolts sitting too far forward...........regards, Andy Douglas  

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Nick......compare your post, page 6, I think, with pic # 140 against the latest pic, #750..........in the #140 you can see the edge of the hole in the frame where the mount sits and compared to the latest pic it does seem that your mount and therefore engine is sitting a little forward compared to the original setup............andyd 

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1 hour ago, Andydodge said:

...I have a vague memory that the holes in the frame that the U bolts for the engine mount go thru are elongated or slotted...........can you check that your U bolts are not sitting towards the front of these holes letting the engine sit slightly forward than it should be..........just went and checked my 1940 Dodge and the engine mount frame holes ARE SLOTTED on my car, they are about 1" long by 1/2" wide so you may have your U bolts sitting too far forward...........regards, Andy Douglas  

 

Mount u-bolt holes in the frame are oblong on my '48 P15, was in there a couple days ago.

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9 hours ago, NickPickToo said:

Back to this issue.  My belt is slightly rubbing against the front mount.  Not enough to fray it when running for a moment, but i think it would definitely be an issue when its in normal use.  One option is to try to find and fix the alignment in the frame that's causing it to be like this.  Another option could be to add a thin spacer behind the pulley.  If I could get 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch it would be fine.  I'm not sure how doable that second option would be.  Advice? 

 

 

IMG_0452.jpg

 

Any spacer you put behind the pulley would also require a spacer to the water pump and generator.  I would think that your mount is not properly positioned to take advantage of the most rearward positioning of the support bracket.  As mentioned, the mount base is slotted...and not sure  if your upper mount is a reproduction that may have a bit of error is bolt placement attributing to the alignment issue.  I would think your rear mounts are pretty much fixed and mark the position of your engine and looking at your picture, you have plenty of forward frame to pulley space for changing the belt.  Again, look closely at the position of the front support in regard to upper mount and position of the base on the frame.  Your picture also shows a forward creep of the base at the bottom mount by looking at the very rust indicator left behind.  Suggest loosening, shove the mount toward the engine at the bottom the tighten, this small amount at the bottom equal a lot of distance lost in the middle of the run.

Edited by Plymouthy Adams
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Nick, don't know if this will help as a datapoint for checking clearances, but here is the pulley and support on my '48.

 

Hmmmm, my support doesn't have the raised ridge that yours has......wonder if something got lost in the translation when the late-model engine was put in your car....

 

crank-hub-7.jpg.9c442067e300e90e03e12fea5e97fa03.jpg

Edited by Sam Buchanan
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Thank you.  here is a more recent picture with the belt on.  The raised spot does not create the issue, but you can see that my pulley does not stick out as far as yours SB.  Also somewhere down the road, my pulleys were changed over to 1/2 inch belts and I'm pretty sure the original belts were wider like yours.  The old belt I took off was frayed and  there is evidence that there was a fender bender on this same side.  PA, i think you pointed out a spot on the cowl many posts ago, and the sway bar mount was twisted on that side too.   That said, the alignment and measurements on the front suspension seem pretty good or as dad says sometimes, "close enough for government work."   PA, AD and DJ, your posts gets me thinking that I can either just push the mount back, or if I need more room, there is space on the mount to slot the holes in the mount just a little and that will likely create the space I need

 

Thanks again

 

    

IMG_0488.jpg

Edited by NickPickToo
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1 minute ago, Eneto-55 said:

I don't know off hand which year the pulley & belt width changed, but the P15s had the wide belt, and at least by 55 (and likely several years earlier than that) they were using the narrow belt.  

That would explain it.  This engine would then have come with the narrow belt

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5 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

 

Any spacer you put behind the pulley would also require a spacer to the water pump and generator.  I would think that your mount is not properly positioned to take advantage of the most rearward positioning of the support bracket.  As mentioned, the mount base is slotted...and not sure  if your upper mount is a reproduction that may have a bit of error is bolt placement attributing to the alignment issue.  I would think your rear mounts are pretty much fixed and mark the position of your engine and looking at your picture, you have plenty of forward frame to pulley space for changing the belt.  Again, look closely at the position of the front support in regard to upper mount and position of the base on the frame.  Your picture also shows a forward creep of the base at the bottom mount by looking at the very rust indicator left behind.  Suggest loosening, shove the mount toward the engine at the bottom the tighten, this small amount at the bottom equal a lot of distance lost in the middle of the run.

It looks to me like the pulley slipped rearward on the hub. It looks like the hub is sticking out about 3/16's farther than the pulley. I think they started using the narrow belt in the early 50's.

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1 hour ago, YukonJack said:

It looks to me like the pulley slipped rearward on the hub. It looks like the hub is sticking out about 3/16's farther than the pulley. I think they started using the narrow belt in the early 50's.

Hmmmmm.   That's another interesting lead ?  Thanks

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I have never seen a front mount support with that raised reinforcement bump bulge.

On any 1946-52 MoPar flathead.

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1 hour ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

I have never seen a front mount support with that raised reinforcement bump bulge.

On any 1946-52 MoPar flathead.

 

Perhaps mine is a very special, limited release, raised reinforcement bump bulge edition of the Deluxe ?

 

 

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Bump bump bulge mount?

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Nick......maybe your front engine mount bracket is a special hi - po, Nascar part to accomodate the extra varoom that the later engine came with.........lol............I'd still check whether you can loosen off the front mount U bolts and just lever the mount assembly rearwards, and also the use of the wider original fan belt may have contributed to this issue.......andyd 

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32 minutes ago, Andydodge said:

Nick......maybe your front engine mount bracket is a special hi - po, Nascar part to accomodate the extra varoom that the later engine came with.........lol............I'd still check whether you can loosen off the front mount U bolts and just lever the mount assembly rearwards, and also the use of the wider original fan belt may have contributed to this issue.......andyd 

I like the Nascar explanation.  I'm going with that ?

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On 8/2/2018 at 1:51 PM, DJ194950 said:

There many ideas on this site as to installing 3 point shoulder style seat belts. About 15 different cars but will give you ideas as to how to's for an install.

 

https://www.julianos.com/Articles.asp?ID=244

I started reading your thread from the begining.  Don't know if you have seen this.

 

Edited by 48ply1stcar
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My pulley is different than all of those and no balancer. I had the crank, rods, fly wheel and pistons balanced.

These cars must have a bunch of different things put on over the years.

engine crank pulley.jpg

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Anyone have a picture of a drivers side compressor & alternator set up for these engines?  Also any one know where to source a bracket for this or have a good picture we can use to fabricate from?

 

We were able to move the front mounting bracket back a bit on the slotted holes and it moved just enough to put less than  1/16" between it and the belt on the driver side.  However I noticed that it's  just slightly touching the raised support hump that's unique to my "NASCAR" setup on the other side.  We now plan to use a file to slot out the holes on the bracket just enough so the distance between it and the belt is a little bit more comfortable at least psychologically.  

Edited by NickPickToo
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   I measured some engines today, and from the face of the timing cover to the center of the pulley, 1 5/16". I also came up with a  post from Sept. 8, 2008. I'd remove the damper and turn the pulley around, it will gain you a 1/4". Your harmonic has moved back, like Yukon said. You can run it without the damper, till you decide what you want to do. I've used hbrepair.com. for my rebuilds. The pulley only lines up one way, so keep turning it till the 6 holes line up.  You and your father are doing a fine job. Pictures of a damper, with pulley both ways.

P-15 damper and pulley 002.JPG

P-15 damper and pulley 001.JPG

Edited by 9 foot box
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I used 40, 60, 80, 100.   I plan to take it back to 60 before primer.  We still haven't gotten around to fixing the braces or floor.  Procrastinating on the stuff that I'm most afraid of, but getting to a point where it will need to get done.

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Looking good Nick.  Don't put it off because it's a bit scary.  Just begin and it will be over sooner.  I hadn't done any replacing of metal either when I began my coupe. It all worked out. My best advice when cutting metal is to measure at least 3 times before cutting, if possible make the replacement panel first and place it where it goes to mark the metal to be removed.  Fits better that way. lol

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Think to self - procrastinating because it's hard, or because you are unfamiliar with it?  Either way, just dig into it, you'll surprise yourself.  It'll be easier than you thought, hard just takes more time...unfamiliar just takes getting started.  Attention to detail and perseverance will always reward you.  You're doing a bang-up job so far, and I, for one, can hardly wait to see the results of your work.  I always look for the latest on your build thread.  Ooh-rah! 

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My first brake line   Learned three things for sure.  1. It's easier than it looks so long as you don't need perfect curves for your tubing.  2. With the gravel shielding over the 3/16" tubing you need 1/4" clamps. We ordered 3/16" clamps   3. even with regular sweeping, our garage is much dustier than it's ever been. 

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