Jump to content

My First Car -- P15 1947 Plymouth Deluxe


NickPickToo
Go to solution Solved by kbuhagiar,

Recommended Posts

I think it was don coutney -RIP- that posted chevy small block head bolts were just right setup and cheap- believe also the brand he used was Pioneer like these-attached.

Don was able to buy just the long ones somewhere?

 

 

Engine Cylinder Head Bolt Set Pioneer S-327 eBay.html

Edited by DJ194950
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Question:  I was studying another thread on the forum about the Head Water Thermostat and Housing.  Someone implied that taking the thermostat out for a vehicle that sets for long periods is okay.  Just thinking through this in my head seems like this would just increase the circulation overall all the time rather than just when the engine was hot, so It's hard to think of that as a bad thing.  What are the impacts to the full cooling system when the thermostat is deleted and what are the downside effects?  Is the answer different for a daily driver vs a set for long time project? Hose fatigue? 

Edited by NickPickToo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thermostat opens at  X temp and helps maintains that temp and it does this by the second and biggest function of the thermostat and often overlooked by many folks is the regulating of water flow from the block.  The opening of the thermostat is a set diameter and will allow the water to flow (exchange rate) at a set rate to allow proper saturation of the heat to the water for exchange at the radiator.  Too much flow and the heat is not absorbed by the water, to little flow and your water gets too hot...your engine needs to run at a set temp for to allow the contaminates which is mainly condensation to evaporate and get purged from the internals of the block and out of the oils.  160 is a minimum temp and considered low if your car is only used for short jaunts to and fro as the water will not get to temp let alone sustain that temp long enough to evaporate the condensates.  180 is a very good over all temp for a non pressurized cooling system in good condition.   

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

The thermostat opens at  X temp and helps maintains that temp and it does this by the second and biggest function of the thermostat and often overlooked by many folks is the regulating of water flow from the block.  The opening of the thermostat is a set diameter and will allow the water to flow (exchange rate) at a set rate to allow proper saturation of the heat to the water for exchange at the radiator.  Too much flow and the heat is not absorbed by the water, to little flow and your water gets too hot...your engine needs to run at a set temp for to allow the contaminates which is mainly condensation to evaporate and get purged from the internals of the block and out of the oils.  160 is a minimum temp and considered low if your car is only used for short jaunts to and fro as the water will not get to temp let alone sustain that temp long enough to evaporate the condensates.  180 is a very good over all temp for a non pressurized cooling system in good condition.   

Thank you!  That was were my thoughts were going too.  Would the flowing water ever reach the appropriate temp.  This is very helpful

Link to comment
Share on other sites

without the proper flow of water the block is going to reach the higher temp before the water as the water flow is not allowing saturation of heat for exchange...it achieves this by less heat in the water, exchange lowering what heat was absorbed at the radiator...the water must stay in the block long enough to absorb and in the same scheme of things, it must not flow through the radiator at a rate that it cannot dissipate enough heat thereby not efficiently cooling the water.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

without the proper flow of water the block is going to reach the higher temp before the water as the water flow is not allowing saturation of heat for exchange...it achieves this by less heat in the water, exchange lowering what heat was absorbed at the radiator...the water must stay in the block long enough to absorb and in the same scheme of things, it must not flow through the radiator at a rate that it cannot dissipate enough heat thereby not efficiently cooling the water.

Than you again!  Im going to ace the thermodynamics essay in AP Physics next year  BTW that's pretty much how the heat exchange on a CPU works whether air or liquid cooled.  Amazing to think that all this was worked out long ago.

Edited by NickPickToo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/11/2019 at 4:21 PM, NickPickToo said:

Our engine builder agreed that AMS Z-Rod would be good for the long run, however he was insistent that we broke it in with normal 10w30 and a Zinc additive for about the first 500 miles.  

how about this Amsoil Break-in oil??

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/racing/break-in-oil-(sae-30)/?code=BRKQT-EA

Edited by lepic56
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rebuild the distributor this morning.  Cleaned it up last week.  Greased the weights and repacked the bearing with dielectric grease.  New condenser and NOS but very clean contact set, with an extra new set of both for future servicing needs.  Between two base plate assemblies I was able to pull together all original screws and washers and have an extra set of the two plates as well although as long as I keep the plates lubed, I am not sure why I'd need these.  I guess I could  wire together a complete plate assembly and sell on eBay for some ridiculous price, but no harm in keeping them around for a while.  The vacuum chamber seems to be working well.  I'm testing it by holding the distributor close to my ear with the chamber outlet facing my cheek.  When I move the top plate side to side, I can hear the air and feel the air on my cheek.  Then when I engage the top plate and place my finger over the chamber outlet, the top plate will not return until I remove my finger.  Could one of the zen master let me know if this is correct?  Again, Dad was a diesel guy and says it sounds right, but that I'd be best to leave these question to the "gassers" ???

 

This is also a really nice piece of art and I can't get it completely cleaned so theres a nice oil stained patina on the housing but the tag is shiny and I can read all the printing.  Nice!    

IMG_0435.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

proper test for the vacuum diaphragm is to apply vacuum and ensure that it holds said applied vacuum.  Vacuum leaks show up faster than any small applied pressure.  A diaphragm with a pin hole will push air without resistance as you can hear at your ear.....but if a pinhole, it will not sustain position with vacuum...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, NickPickToo said:

Rebuild the distributor this morning.  Cleaned it up last week.  Greased the weights and repacked the bearing with dielectric grease.  New condenser and NOS but very clean contact set, with an extra new set of both for future servicing needs.  Between two base plate assemblies I was able to pull together all original screws and washers and have an extra set of the two plates as well although as long as I keep the plates lubed, I am not sure why I'd need these.  I guess I could  wire together a complete plate assembly and sell on eBay for some ridiculous price, but no harm in keeping them around for a while.  The vacuum chamber seems to be working well.  I'm testing it by holding the distributor close to my ear with the chamber outlet facing my cheek.  When I move the top plate side to side, I can hear the air and feel the air on my cheek.  Then when I engage the top plate and place my finger over the chamber outlet, the top plate will not return until I remove my finger.  Could one of the zen master let me know if this is correct?  Again, Dad was a diesel guy and says it sounds right, but that I'd be best to leave these question to the "gassers" ???

 

This is also a really nice piece of art and I can't get it completely cleaned so theres a nice oil stained patina on the housing but the tag is shiny and I can read all the printing.  Nice!    

IMG_0435.jpg

Get a second distributor and rebuild it too. Then when you wear out the points it's a quick swap. 

  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see your confused emoji....think about it....you out one night, wet, cold, maybe a wind blowing...your points just conked out...quickly drop in a rebuilt distributor, connect it back up...fire the sucker up and head in home without need for trying to set clean, change points setting a gap in the dark by hopefully a light on your cell phone...it is just that easy...bench the original for a rebuilt to place in the truck where you just happened to have one earlier..……...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Conceptually I get it, but confused about how I would find a matched casing with the lower mechanicals in good shape at a reasonable price.  I was lucky with this one because everything under the plates was in really good condition.   I'll put that on the "nice to have" list till we get this project on the road again.  Do the points conk out so often?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it is not that they conk out so often, any well managed car with scheduled tune ups will usually avoid these circumstances, however, you cannot ever say with something mechanical it will be good till X date...you build saying it SHOULD be good to X date....it is often the most inopportune time when these do fail.  Roadside repairs are so so in the daylight...can be a night mare after dark...and depending on what spares/tools you have to have in your vehicle at the time.....just a word to the wise is all the comment was.....you will see these prophecies come true if you own and drive the car long enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, NickPickToo said:

Conceptually I get it, but confused about how I would find a matched casing with the lower mechanicals in good shape at a reasonable price.  I was lucky with this one because everything under the plates was in really good condition.   I'll put that on the "nice to have" list till we get this project on the road again.  Do the points conk out so often?  

They made a lot of these cars you should be able to find a second distributor for a reasonable amount. You are right though that it should match so they share tune up parts. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A year's worth of AAA membership with towing privileges cost less than sourcing and rebuilding a distributor...........that flatbed tow truck will have powerful flood lights on it......  ;)

 

I used the AAA "free tow" one time before I decided to upgrade to the electric fuel pump, more than paid me back for the membership. Nick, have your Dad include the AAA membership in your birthday bonus each year!  ?

Edited by Sam Buchanan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ouch and I'm about to go out to the garage and install the mechanical fuel pump i rebuilt knowing I'll be rebuilding it next year after the ethanol gets to some of the parts that I didn't switch out...perhaps I add and electric pump to the "nice to have someday" list.  ?   On that note, according to my dad, my great grandpa was know to travel with extra parts in an old pickup he owned just for insurance.  Said he use to get flack for the timing chain and gears till one day my grandpa was using the truck for a camping trip and sure enough, the timing chain went bad in the middle of the mountains.

Edited by NickPickToo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, NickPickToo said:

Ouch and I'm about to go out to the garage and install the mechanical fuel pump i rebuilt knowing I'll be rebuilding it next year after the ethanol gets to some of the parts that I didn't switch out...perhaps I add and electric pump to the "nice to have someday" list.  ?   On that note, according to my dad, my great grandpa was know to travel with extra parts in an old pickup he owned just for insurance.  Said he use to get flack for the timing chain and gears till one day my grandpa was using the truck for a camping trip and sure enough, the timing chain went bad in the middle of the mountains.

 

Yep, it's a generational thing.  :)

 

The old farts on the forum think you should roll up your sleeves and crawl under your car on a dark, rainy night when it decides to leave you stranded. This old fart just places a call using the AAA phone app and they know exactly where you are within seconds......then ask you which shop you want the car towed to, or your home. They already know where you live and they know the GPS coordinates of the shops in town. They'll even ask if they need to arrange a rental car for you.

 

If you want to carry some stuff in the trunk of the car.....pack some snacks and a couple of Snapples so you can pass the time until the flatbed arrives....the times...they are a'changin'........   ?

Edited by Sam Buchanan
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm that old fart...

I'll carry the spare parts...don't want the excess  food...I need to keep slim and trim.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sam Buchanan said:

 

Yep, it's a generational thing.  :)

 

The old farts on the forum think you should roll up your sleeves and crawl under your car on a dark, rainy night when it decides to leave you stranded. This old fart just places a call using the AAA phone app and they know exactly where you are within seconds......then ask you which shop you want the car towed to, or your home. They already know where you live and they know the GPS coordinates of the shops in town. They'll even ask if they need to arrange a rental car for you.

 

If you want to carry some stuff in the trunk of the car.....pack some snacks and a couple of Snapples so you can pass the time until the flatbed arrives....the times...they are a'changin'........   ?


you can call me a fart...but don't call  me old.....and I have but one more things to add......IT BUILDS CHARACTER...…!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

proper test for the vacuum diaphragm is to apply vacuum and ensure that it holds said applied vacuum.  Vacuum leaks show up faster than any small applied pressure.  A diaphragm with a pin hole will push air without resistance as you can hear at your ear.....but if a pinhole, it will not sustain position with vacuum...

So the second part of my test was correct?? engage the plate / which applied vacuum / but finger over outlet and if plate stays in place until I let up my finger than vacuum is strong and holding.  If plate does not stay engaged or slowly returns then there is a vacuum leak.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, NickPickToo said:

So the second part of my test was correct?? engage the plate / which applied vacuum / but finger over outlet and if plate stays in place until I let up my finger than vacuum is strong and holding.  If plate does not stay engaged or slowly returns then there is a vacuum leak.

yep...

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Nick,

Thought I'd chime in about the spare parts issue. Both sides are good reasons to have parts or AAA (actually both). Here is the thing about my spare parts, They are not usually for local driving. Fast forward a few years and you want to go to an event or show that might be a couple of hundred miles or further away That's when the spare parts really come in handy, because most auto shops you'll find on the road trip won't have a clue about how to work on your car or have the parts in stock. About the only real spare parts I would carry besides a small tool set would be Water, oil, An assembled breaker plate for the Dizzy (mine has gone out twice in 6 years and  5 minutes to change) and a voltage regulator (once in six years). Of course bulbs and fuses as well. These hardly take up any space at all and are just insurance for a trip. Any other problems are usually bigger and take a bit of time to solve. As far as electric fuel pump, put one in and wire it to a 3 way switch. Off in the middle, left for momentary to prime for vapor lock or boiled away fuel on hot days and right to engage full time for a fuel pump failure just to get home.

 

Your car your choice. We are here to offer advice and help which you can take or leave as you please. 

 

Joe Lee

Edited by soth122003
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My first two cars were distributor w/ points cars (62 Chrysler & 72 Dodge Coronet), and while I regularly cleaned & reset the gap on them, I never had a failure on the road.  (The car my wife had when we got married, a 1980 Datsun, which then became our only car until we moved out of the States, may have also had points, I don't know, as I cannot remember ever working on them if it did.)  So I really don't think it's a big problem, as long as you check the gap each time you reset the gaps on the spark plugs, which I think I did every oil change.

 

My dad always had a full tool set (wrenches & sockets, etc) along when we traveled, and also belts & radiator hoses, and an extra starter & possibly a generator or alternator as the case may be.  I can't recall that he ever had to do more than a belt change on the side of the road, but he was prepared.  This happened before I was born, but I know that once, states away from home, the contacts in the regulator messed up.  He bent them together so that it would charge full time, then they continued on their way, with the fan, lights, everything running, to keep it from over charging the battery.  I imagine he stopped the first opportunity to get a new one, but I don't remember that part of the story.

 

So, here's my addition to the list of stuff to have along: overalls, and a piece of cardboard or a small tarp to push under the car if you have to crawl under. 

(I did have to crawl under that Datsun on a trip a couple of times before we got to our destination - the exhaust pipe broke, and man could that little 4 banger make a lot of noise!  I was afraid I would attract the attention of the police.  I ran it up on a curb or sidewalk so I could slide under it.  Used one of those exhaust pipe tape kits to wrap it back together - the deal that hardens when it gets hot.  It worked fine until I shut the engine off to fill up with gasoline, then when I started it up again, the engine shook enough that it broke apart again.  We went the rest of the way with it screaming out loud.  Then I pulled it all apart & borrowed a gas welder to weld a piece in.  It was that way until we sold the car when we moved to Brazil half a year or so later.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.

Terms of Use