Copper clad aluminum wire?

[OUTFXD]

One again dealing with electrical issues.  This time I noticed that I loose a lot of cabin power, when I turn the headlights on.  New battery, New Battery cables, New whirly charger(Alternator). 

 

My conclusion is that the wire between the whirly charger and the battery wasnt up to snuff. 

 

Simple fix,  just run a new wire.  Maybe 18" of 10g wire.  Checked the stash but only had smaller wire. 

 

Started Looking online.  Found one quick... labeled as Copper clad aluminum.  suspicions raise I kept looking and found "Oxygen free copper" wire with silicone insulation  and "tinned"<?> copper. 

 

Its starting to make my head spin.  Day was you just walked up to the counter and asked for 10g wire. The guy measures out however much you need and your done. 

 

What is the (conductive) difference between these wires?  I know Aluminum is NOT as conductive as copper.  I would think that "copper clad aluminum" would be the same as "Gold plated".  It looks right,  but it doesnt do the job.

 

all opinions and any information appriciated!  Thanks!

[Plymouthy Adams]

you would likely be better served just going to your favorite big box automotive store and see their limited stock of wire, you may get lucky.  For myself, I usually glean my pieces from wiring harness of donor cars.  I cut these out at the wrecking yard for cheap and they a huge asset when doing mods, upgrades and common repairs.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Plymouthy Adams

[Eneto-55]

I kept all of the wire when I scrapped out a 93 Chrysler T&C.  There is very little wire in that whole mess that is over 12 or 14 gauge.  

 

The tinned copper is sometimes referred to as "marine grade", designed to resist corrosion in "unfriendly environments".  (It's also supposed to be much easier to solder.)  When I first started looking at replacing all of the wire in my 46, I thought it was all tinned copper, but it turned out that the thing I started with, the heater motor, was the only place I've found tinned copper.  

 

The other thing to look at is the strand count.  The more strands it has, the more flexible it will be, both for installation, and for resisting fatigue from vibration, etc.

[Los_Control]

Back in the 1970's they use to wire houses with aluminum wire ... it was cheaper. So it was real common to see in mobile homes and then cheaper contractors used it.

Because the wire expands and contracts so much, it would eventually leave all the connections on the ends loose .... many home fires were caused from it ... then it was banned from home use ... I think it is still used in outdoors from power companies on poles and providing power to the outdoor meter.

 

I have never seen "copper clad aluminum wire" I would not want to use it myself.

 

This might seem like over kill if you just need a couple wires. Copper wire is expensive. This is a 12 circuit universal wire harness from Amazon for $43

I bought a 14 circuit for not much more, but I need to completely rewire my truck and am now 12 volt.

I have decided I do not want to use the fuse box, while it would work for me it is overkill .... So I'm going to cut all the wire off of it and just build my own wire harness.

 

For $50 I get all the different colored wires & different gauges .... more then enough to wire my simple truck.

When you start buying rolls of automotive wire at $8-$10 per roll, then different gauges and different colors .... $$ will quickly add up.

I have been collecting rolls of wire since 2018 when I bought the truck, have  very poor selection of colors and more then $50 tied up in it.

I wish I would have just bought the wire harness in the first place.

 

@Plymouthy Adams is doing the same thing, just getting it cheaper buying it used at the wrecking yards.

 

[desoto1939]

just purchase all copper wire 10-12 gage at any NAPA or Automovtive store. Also check that you have good clean grounds on the car.

 

Rich Hartung

[OUTFXD]

1 hour ago, Los_Control said:

For $50 I get all the different colored wires & different gauges

That is crafty!  I like that idea!

[Sam Buchanan]

Way too much thinkin' going on here. 

 

https://www.autozone.com/miscellaneous-non-automotive/electrical-wire/p/dorman-conduct-tite-red-8ft-10-gauge-primary-wire/1080860_0_0

 

Twelve bucks.

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Sam Buchanan

[Los_Control]

Just now, Sam Buchanan said:

Way too much thinkin' going on here. 

I agree with you to fix a couple of wires ....... IIRC, @OUTFXD has original wiring and simply trying to keep it alive.

I'm all for replacing one wire at a time .... eventually they all will be replaced. Just because they are 77 years old.

 

So one wire for $12 fixes the immediate issue .... for $40 more you have a selection of wire for future issues.

I'm just thinking ahead .... They are still 6V so many of the wires will be to small to use, same time they would get plenty they can use.

 

So by all means just buy a roll of wire and fix the problem ..... If you expect future problems a universal wire harness is not a bad idea.

 

[D35 Torpedo]

Ali covered copper is the same as Aluminized. It's coated in Aluminum for corrosion resistance. It also reduces the amount of copper. Edit: rereading your post you said copper covered Ali. That's the cheapest stuff. I've seen it in transformers. Tinned would be similar to Aluminized. When you solder wire you need to tin it first. The copper is ran through a solder bath before the jacket goes on. It prevents green death from getting to the copper.

Edited October 13, 2023 by D35 Torpedo

[soth122003]

You can also try Lowes and Home Depot for 10 and 12 gage wire by the foot. It only has the basic colors though. Red, Black, Green, Yellow and Brown. Good for the high draw systems. Also using them, you could add colored heat shrink to the ends to denote the system.

 

Joe Lee

[kencombs]

One comment on wire.   To quote Nancy Reagan on copper-coated AL, Just say no!   Or maybe she was talking about something else, but she was right.

 

Aluminum wiring of any kind has no place in a moving, vibrating, corroding conveyance.   Becomes brittle, loosens connection when heat cycled etc. 

 

Only copper for me, I'd love tinned but will probably settle to an all-copper 12-14 circuit kit.  The kind with pre-printed wire labels and integral turn signal flashers (two for hazards too).  Since I'm using GM column parts the fact that most of these come with the correct plug for ignition, turn signals and dimmer switch is a huge plus for me.

 

Those come at several price points.  Reading carefully some have the above mentioned CU-AL wire.  Better ones don't. 

 

I'd be interested in hearing from folks who have used the sub-$150 kits.   I know the 300 up buck kits are better but are they that much better?

[GoodnightIrene]

Just buy wire by length or a whole spool at home depot. It is higher quality stuff then what the auto parts stores sell, and cheaper.
I re-made my wiring harness using 10 gauge stranded wire I bought there, but other places like ace might have it.
Its copper wire with a thick nylon and a transparent plastic insulation.
It was cheap and I could always get more when I needed it.
They also carry connectors for various gauges.

Friction tape is also nice for bundling it up as it doesn't unravel over time, but use sparingly as it is made of cloth.

[TodFitch]

1 hour ago, GoodnightIrene said:

Just buy wire by length or a whole spool at home depot. It is higher quality stuff then what the auto parts stores sell, and cheaper.
I re-made my wiring harness using 10 gauge stranded wire I bought there, but other places like ace might have it.
Its copper wire with a thick nylon and a transparent plastic insulation.
It was cheap and I could always get more when I needed it.
They also carry connectors for various gauges.

Friction tape is also nice for bundling it up as it doesn't unravel over time, but use sparingly as it is made of cloth.

Maybe the big box building supplies near you carry different wire than those near me. The stranded wire at my local big box has fewer but larger strands than the stuff used in electronics and automotive work. I believe that is because the larger the strands the less well it flexes and the more it will work harden. For building wiring the stranded wire is pulled through conduit once when it is installed and then is basically static so it does not need to deal with long term vibration issues. I will personally stick with the wire from automotive or electronics supplies that have more strands that are smaller.

[GoodnightIrene]

10 minutes ago, TodFitch said:

Maybe the big box building supplies near you carry different wire than those near me. The stranded wire at my local big box has fewer but larger strands than the stuff used in electronics and automotive work. I believe that is because the larger the strands the less well it flexes and the more it will work harden. For building wiring the stranded wire is pulled through conduit once when it is installed and then is basically static so it does not need to deal with long term vibration issues. I will personally stick with the wire from automotive or electronics supplies that have more strands that are smaller.

This is true, but, It was cheap and available. An automotive store simply wont supply you with the quantity of wire you need to make a new harness.
Might I add, I'm not sure about the quality of insulation you get from those tail light wires you can buy at O'Reilly's. I simply made sure to bundle everything tightly and run them through sleeves to keep anything from rubbing through. Here is a pic of my new harness going through the firewall. 

[Sniper]

THHN wire is really not for automobiles.  You want wire specifically for automotive use and THHN is not it.  It's fine to wire your house but your house doesn't have the heat, grease, oil or gasoline in the mix an automotive application will have.

[Eneto-55]

Maybe I'm digging up this dead horse to beat it, but STRAND COUNT "counts".

Here is what I found in my original wiring:

Gauge:    Strand Count

  16                19

  14                26

  12                41

  10                65

 

I thought about commercial building wire as well.  I do not recall what the strand count was for, say, 12 gauge wire, but I did a strand count, and it wasn't anywhere near what the OEM wire was.

 

Like others have said, that stuff is not made to flex or withstand vibration.  It's cheaper because it is cheaper to make, and probably also because it is made in much higher quantities.  Don't skimp on wire quality.  Don't get the wire for which the measurements are given primarily in metric, then converted.  Convert the measurements yourself.  What I found was that it wasn't really the full size for the standard gauge claimed.

 

Also, the finer the strand the easier it will be to route it around tight corners, etc.

 

I also did strand count comparisons between wire out of the 1993 Chrysler T&C I stripped out and scrapped and the P15 wiring harness.  The '93 wire isn't marked for gauge (to my knowledge), but from the best I could tell, the strand counts were much lower there as well.  At any rate, you can tell just looking at a single strand that the old wire is finer.  And, incidentally, I found a number of wires in that harness that were either completely broken in places, or had a reduced number of strands that were intact.  This was especially so in the engine harness, where it went from the engine to the fire wall.  Makes sense - a lot of flexing going on there.

[Sniper]

10 hours ago, Eneto-55 said:

Maybe I'm digging up this dead horse to beat it, but STRAND COUNT "counts".

 

You are exactly right.

[kencombs]

12 hours ago, Eneto-55 said:

Maybe I'm digging up this dead horse to beat it, but STRAND COUNT "counts".

Here is what I found in my original wiring:

Gauge:    Strand Count

  16                19

  14                26

  12                41

  10                65

 

I thought about commercial building wire as well.  I do not recall what the strand count was for, say, 12 gauge wire, but I did a strand count, and it wasn't anywhere near what the OEM wire was.

 

Like others have said, that stuff is not made to flex or withstand vibration.  It's cheaper because it is cheaper to make, and probably also because it is made in much higher quantities.  Don't skimp on wire quality.  Don't get the wire for which the measurements are given primarily in metric, then converted.  Convert the measurements yourself.  What I found was that it wasn't really the full size for the standard gauge claimed.

 

Also, the finer the strand the easier it will be to route it around tight corners, etc.

 

I also did strand count comparisons between wire out of the 1993 Chrysler T&C I stripped out and scrapped and the P15 wiring harness.  The '93 wire isn't marked for gauge (to my knowledge), but from the best I could tell, the strand counts were much lower there as well.  At any rate, you can tell just looking at a single strand that the old wire is finer.  And, incidentally, I found a number of wires in that harness that were either completely broken in places, or had a reduced number of strands that were intact.  This was especially so in the engine harness, where it went from the engine to the fire wall.  Makes sense - a lot of flexing going on there.

That T&C wire strand count is exactly why the power sliding doors fail so often that there are aftermarket door harnesses available.   2007 T&C owner who has changed both sides.  

[OUTFXD]

21 hours ago, GoodnightIrene said:

 

That is one sexy engine compartment! I.. am...  jealous!

[Sam Buchanan]

1 hour ago, OUTFXD said:

That is one sexy engine compartment! I.. am...  jealous!

 

You need to get out more..........  ?