Please Help, Flathead 6 Low Power

[Noah H]

Hello Friends,

First off I hope that all of you are staying safe during these crazy times and have some time to drive your classics as well as finish up those never ending "honey-do's"

 

Since it it starting to get nice I have been driving my 50 dodge sedan more often with a stock flathead 230. My issue is when I shift through all of the gears, I get little to no power. It also takes quite a long time to reach 50 mph with my foot clear on the floor. It starts and runs flawlessly because the motor has been rebuilt from the ground up but recently it seems like it is very lacking of power. I pulled the plugs and they are all sooty and fouled. (Autolite 295) Would this cause a significant loss in power? I would have not a clue where to start.

 

Here are some things that have been done to the engine

• New points, condenser, wires and coil when the motor was rebuilt 5000 miles ago
• A new clutch was installed about 10, 000 miles ago
• New gas tank installed before the motor was rebuilt 
• The Carb has been rebuilt after the new gas tank was installed
• The motor was timed after the new points were installed using a timing light
• Fluid drive unit was never checked because it has never seemed to leak
• Accelerator pump is in the middle hole on the accelerator pump rod. 

 

Hopefully this will help with any answers that you need. Open to all ideas, I have a lot of time on my hands so it would not hurt to experiment a little bit with it.

 

thank you for your help and hope you all are having a great time at home with your family 

 

Noah 

 

 

[Veemoney]

First thing I would check is the points for correct gap and pitting since you said 5000 miles since rebuild. 

[Tom Skinner]

Noah,

Please re-tune your car. Way back when - 5,000 miles was a good time to, as a matter of fact most guys retinkered/timed their cars every month or so in their driveways to keep them running optimally. I know your plugs will last 10,000 or more but points aren't what they used to be and one other thing to check is your vacume advance (if you have one) is it pulling or leaking? Good Luck. Our Flat Heads like to be advanced on the timing 4-6 Degrees as well from the static timing position. Here is wishing you - Happy Wrench Turning.

Tom

[Sniper]

sooty and fouled plugs tell me it's running rich.

 

I'd start with checking the float level and the inlet needle for debris.

[Tom Skinner]

Sniper is correct! Of course after Cleaning Plugs and resetting Points and Timing, a Vacume Gauge needs to be hooked up to a vacume port near the Carb and the highest reading (usually 18 - 20 Inches)  obtained at the Carb for a correct Carb setting.

Tom

[Noah H]

Thanks guys I just installed new plugs, If I do not have my hands on a timing light what would be the best way to time the engine? I have cleaned my points with a points file really good. I do not have a Vacuum gauge nor a timing light. Can I time an engine correctly with only one of these tools? 

 

Thanks

[Sniper]

You can time it like they used to do before they had timing lights.

 

Pull the pipe plug on top of #6 cylinder, insert a, 8 inch or longer skinny rod, wire from a clothes hanger is about right, rotate engine over till that rod is at max lift, this will be TDC on #6 (and #1) cylinder.   You DO NOT want the rod to fall intot eh cylinder and not be able to pull it out, you will be pulling the head if you do that.

 

Timing mark should read TDC.

 

Loosen distributor clamp bolt.

 

Hook a test light from the battery - terminal to the coil + terminal (assume it's still 6v negative ground). 

 

Gently rotate the distributor opposite of it's normal rotation. till the light lights up, then rotate it back till it just goes out.

 

Lock the distributor.  Remove the wire, put the pipe plug back in and you are done.

Edited May 2, 2020 by Sniper

[greg g]

Time it using a vacuum gauge.  Connect it to read intake manifold vacuum, start the engine set the idle speed to 400to 500 rpm. Then loosen the dist and rotate it till you get the highest reading on the gauge that maintains a steady needle.  Snug the dist slightly and readjust idle to 500 rpm.  Now drive the car and listen for spark knock or pinging under load like accelerating in high gear, or when climbing a grade.  If you get no ping and good drivability tighten the dist.  If you get pinging, rotate the dist slightly till it is gone, then tighten the dist there.  This will provide the optimal timing for your engines and fuels condition.

 

Sounds like you also want to check the step up or power jet within the carb to assure it's moving freely.  This valve and jet provide for additional gas to go into the mix after the initial squirt from the accelerator pump.  Do you have a shop manual?

[Sam Buchanan]

55 minutes ago, Sniper said:

 

 

Pull the pipe plug on top of #6 cylinder, insert a, 8 inch or longer skinny rod, wire from a clothes hanger is about right, rotate engine over till that rod is at max lift, this will be TDC on #6 (and #1) cylinder.   You DO NOT want the rod to fall intot eh cylinder and not be able to pull it out, you will be pulling the head if you do that.

 

 

I would put a 90* bend on one end of the rod to make sure it can't fall into the engine. 

 

The test light method reminds me how we timed VWs (and motorsickles) back in the day (timing lights were for amateurs...).  ?

Edited May 2, 2020 by Sam Buchanan

[James_Douglas]

There is an other long lost way to time and engine without anything other than a glass of water.

 

You fill clear glass cup with water. Place it flat on the head. Start the engine.

 

Note the wave pattern in the cup while turning the distributor in both directions. Keep doing this until you get an even wave form, like dropping a rock in the middle of a dead still pond and the ripples are even.

 

I learned this technique from an old timer when I was a kid and had no money for a timing light. When you get good at it, usually you can get to within a few degrees of using a timing light.

 

***********

Now all that said if this is a new engine, have you done a compression and leak down test to make sure the rings are sealing?

 

James.

[desoto1939]

you can purchase a general 12v tining light and it will work on your 6v positive grounded car. all you have to do is just switch the alligator clips. the red clip would then be you ground clip and the black would be power clip and hook the sparkplug wire black box the the number 6 sparkplug wire  and then go time the car.

 

This is a good tool tohave does not have to be the most expensive unit it is just a light to shine down on the pulley where the timing marks are. Much simplere than the other ways that were discussed.

 

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com 

[soth122003]

4 hours ago, Noah H said:

Thanks guys I just installed new plugs, If I do not have my hands on a timing light what would be the best way to time the engine? I have cleaned my points with a points file really good. I do not have a Vacuum gauge nor a timing light. Can I time an engine correctly with only one of these tools?

Harbor Freight has the timing light for $30 and the fuel pump/vacuum tester for $15.

 

Joe Lee

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

some time we do small changes when doing tune ups that cause catastrophic effects some of which are negative....did  you by chance change a screw for the points...maybe a tad long now and preventing the mechanical advance to operate.....no advance and you have to coax that puppy to speed and even if not a longer screw by accident...is something now in the way preventing the movement of the timing plate....this would be a good item to verify functioning correct....another thing is you have to buy the tune up parts specific to the type distributor off the tag on the side of the distributor...if you have a mismatched rotor and cap...you can have issues......

[Noah H]

Thanks so much guys, I tried retarding the timing a bit and it helped substantially. The distributed seemed way to advanced. It isles smooth and I have taken it down the highway without any pinging or knocking so far. I might want to get my hands on a vacuum gauge because I advanced it about 7 degrees by eyeballing it to see if it would make a difference. And it defiantly did. Any thoughts? 

[Dodgeb4ya]

Always make sure point gap or dwell is correct before timing the engine.

Otherwise timing the engine correctly cannot be done.

[Noah H]

Always wondered what dwell is, could I please have some clarification on what it is and how I know it’s right?

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

dwell is the electrical description for the mechanical period of time the points stay closed allowing your coil to go into saturation for the better spark...it is best described as a duty cycle...

[Noah H]

Thanks, is there a way I can make sure that my dwell is correct?

[Sniper]

With a dwell meter

 

Or measuring the point gap

 

A brief write up I made on tuning the 218 in my 51, it also contains links to more info

 

http://www.yourolddad.com/tune-up

[Plymouthy Adams]

point gap is only effective when setting the points new and once they have even an initial amount of wear it is only guessing at best....do use the dwell meter if points are used....do use the meter if you have one and the points are new.....used points cleaned along the roadside and set by gap is just to get you home...the dwell alters the timing and also the saturation of the coil for the best spark....

[Oldguy48]

If the suggestions provided thus far don't lead to the source of your problem, I'll toss another possibility into the discussion.  Is there any chance that the issue is a restriction in the exhaust system?  Just a thought.

[dpollo]

sounds to me like a plugged muffler.  the vacuum gauge mentioned earlier will reveal that problem with a low reading when you open the throttle.

 

check the tail pipe where it kicks up over the rear axle.  sometimes they get bent almost shut if the car has been reversed into something solid.