Bypass filter needed?

[Sam Buchanan]

I realize this may be a topic that belongs in the "Never Ending Debate" section since most folks will have an opinion based on their particular experience. But the 218 in my P15 didn't have a filter when I purchased it and I don't know if a filter was removed or it never had one, it just has a length of tubing connecting two ports on the crankcase. For a car that receives careful maintenance and frequent oil changes and isn't a daily driver, is it advisable to go to the expense and effort to install and maintain a filter?

 

Associated with this inquiry, if the decision is made to continue to drive the car without the filter, is the tubing loop needed or can those ports be plugged? I'm looking at the oil system schematic in the Service Manual but can't determine if oil flow is essential between those two ports.

 

Update: I decided to install a spin-on bypass oil filter, details are in this thread.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Sam Buchanan

[Andydodge]

My 1941 coupe also was lacking an oil filter when purchased and considering it was supposedly a "restored' car then I was surprised....being a hotrodder I installed a Beehive Filter, shiney with fins....perfect..........but any bypass filter would have worked......but exactly where does the tubing connect?.......if each end attaches to the ports that lie on the same horizontal casting that runs along the side of the block then thats attached to the same ports, just in different spots, the return line should go to a vertical port near the oil pressure spring bolt head.......at least thats what I understand to be correct......andyd   

[Sam Buchanan]

Andy, the bypass loop appears to be connected properly, one end at the oil galley on the block and the other at the fitting on the oil pressure relief valve.

 

 

Studying the oil schematic it seems to me the pressure relief valve is only for regulating oil flow into the filter. Is this correct?

[TodFitch]

1 hour ago, Sam Buchanan said:

Studying the oil schematic it seems to me the pressure relief valve is only for regulating oil flow into the filter. Is this correct?

 

No, the pressure relief valve has too functions: First and for most it relieves any over pressure by dumping oil directly into the pan if needed. As a secondary function, it shuts off flow of oil from the bypass filter back into the pan if the oil pressure drops too low.

 

In the case of your picture, if you aren't going to have a filter there then it would be far better to plug the opening into the oil gallery and into the pressure relief valve rather than piping a shunt between the two.

[PT81Jan]

What TodFitch explained in words.

Illustration of the relief valve function

 

 

[Sam Buchanan]

2 hours ago, TodFitch said:

 

No, the pressure relief valve has too functions: First and for most it relieves any over pressure by dumping oil directly into the pan if needed. As a secondary function, it shuts off flow of oil from the bypass filter back into the pan if the oil pressure drops too low.

 

In the case of your picture, if you aren't going to have a filter there then it would be far better to plug the opening into the oil gallery and into the pressure relief valve rather than piping a shunt between the two.

 

Thank you for the clarification. Now, please educate me....why would plugging the ports be better than the shunt?

[greg g]

No chance of a leak developing in the tube.

[knuckleharley]

Back to your basic "oil filter or no oil filter" question,as long as you KNOW there is no trash in your base pan and no crud clogging any passage,I'd say it is personal choice. These cars lasted for decades of daily driving with no filter back when the best oil you could buy was crap compared to what you can buy today,so it really shouldn't matter.

 

My only caution is to NOT put high detergent oil in your engine if it has been using non-detergent oil. If you do,you will be buying a couple of cases of oil and several filters if you run an oil filter to try to get the passageways cleared out again. In extreme cases you might even end up having to drop the pan and blow out the oil pump lines.

 

I run straight 40 wt non-detergent oil in the old cars and trucks I have on the road now in the summer,and 30 wt non-detergent oil in them in the winter. Once I get around to dropping the base pans and cleaning them out,I will probably switch to 5-30 and 5-40 synthetic oil.

 

But straight non-detergent oil is fine as long as you keep the oil changed and make at least occasional highway trips with the car to make sure the oil gets hot enough to circulate good and burn away any condensation. Non-Detergent oil IS getting pricey,though. If you run it,make sure you carry a few spare quarts in your trunk because it's hard to find on the road.

[Sam Buchanan]

3 hours ago, greg g said:

No chance of a leak developing in the tube.

 

True, and the reason I prefer not having the shunt. But I'm trying to determine whether or not removing the shunt will prevent oil from going where it should in the engine. Studying the oil schematic leads me to believe that won't be a problem.....but some of you guys have been working with these engines far longer than I so I'm hoping to hear from someone who runs an engine with both ports plugged.  

[Sam Buchanan]

2 hours ago, knuckleharley said:

Back to your basic "oil filter or no oil filter" question,as long as you KNOW there is no trash in your base pan and no crud clogging any passage,I'd say it is personal choice. These cars lasted for decades of daily driving with no filter back when the best oil you could buy was crap compared to what you can buy today,so it really shouldn't matter.

 

My only caution is to NOT put high detergent oil in your engine if it has been using non-detergent oil. If you do,you will be buying a couple of cases of oil and several filters if you run an oil filter to try to get the passageways cleared out again. In extreme cases you might even end up having to drop the pan and blow out the oil pump lines.

 

I can't answer that question because I have no clue what kind of oil has been in this engine for the past twenty years. I put detergent 10W-30 in it when returning the car to service after a 5-year hibernation. I may pull the pan at the next oil change to replace the lower crank seal, we'll see what is in the bottom of the pan then.

Edited June 29, 2019 by Sam Buchanan

[TodFitch]

4 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

 

True, and the reason I prefer not having the shunt. But I'm trying to determine whether or not removing the shunt will prevent oil from going where it should in the engine. Studying the oil schematic leads me to believe that won't be a problem.....but some of you guys have been working with these engines far longer than I so I'm hoping to hear from someone who runs an engine with both ports plugged.  

 

In the late '30s (and I think maybe even into the P15 era), the lower trim level Plymouths came from the factory with those ports plugged. If you wanted a filter on those cars you removed the plugs and plumbed in the filter. So basically you'd be running a factory configuration if you plugged both.

[Sam Buchanan]

29 minutes ago, TodFitch said:

 

In the late '30s (and I think maybe even into the P15 era), the lower trim level Plymouths came from the factory with those ports plugged. If you wanted a filter on those cars you removed the plugs and plumbed in the filter. So basically you'd be running a factory configuration if you plugged both.

 

That's good info, Tod, thank you. I'll probably get a couple of 1/8" NPT plugs and remove the shunt.

[DJ194950]

Sam, I prefer to have one even a aftermarket setup to catch as much junk as possible. JMO

See attached. This what I added. This filter shown is made for use as a bypass setup type.

 

There are usually 20 holes in thw side of the head just above the fittings described earlier to add your homemade mount to use this type of filter. If not others have used two head bolts.

 

DJ

 

 

 

 

 

 

mopar bypass filter-wix 51050 oic.bmp

Edited June 30, 2019 by DJ194950
add mounting info

[kencombs]

56 minutes ago, DJ194950 said:

Sam, I prefer to have one even a aftermarket setup to catch as much junk as possible. JMO

See attached. This what I added. This filter shown is made for use as a bypass setup type.

 

There are usually 20 holes in thw side of the head just above the fittings described earlier to add your homemade mount to use this type of filter. If not others have used two head bolts.

 

DJ

 

 

 

 

 

 

mopar bypass filter-wix 51050 oic.bmp 97.93 kB · 1 download

Just to add this:  Normal spin on cartridges are not made for bypass use, they are much 'coarser' than bypass.  But, every filter maker has a spin on designed for bypass use that catch much smaller particles.  They are typically available by looking up the pN for a truck diesel with 2 filters.  One of them is the 'normal' full flow the cleans the oil going directly to the bearings.  The second filters the oil that is being returned to the sump after the pressure relief opens for excess flow.  A Mitsubishi FE436 is one example.

[maok]

Vintage Power Wagons have quality period style of used by-pass oil filter housing and elements at very reasonable pricing.

It wont hurt to install an oil filter.

[Sam Buchanan]

45 minutes ago, maok said:

Vintage Power Wagons have quality period style of used by-pass oil filter housing and elements at very reasonable pricing.

It wont hurt to install an oil filter.

 

Found them. I'll take this under consideration, thanks!

[P15-D24]

Also forum sponsor Vic's Dodge Garage has really nice reproduction kits. 

[DJ194950]

Per Wix, this filter IS made for bypass oil filter use

I choose to hold my tongue on others opinions!

 

From Bob the filter guy- -

 

51050
UPC Number: 765809510500
Principal Application: Allis-Chalmers, Fiat, Continental, GM, Hyster, Isuzu, Iveco, Towmotor, Other
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: By-Pass
Media: Paper
Height: 5.178
Outer Diameter Top: 3.660
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 5/8-18
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.834 2.462 0.200

 

FROM WIX themselves._ - -

 

Product Specifications

Part Number:	51050
UPC Number:	765809510500
Style:	Spin-On Lube Filter
Service:	Lube
Type:	By-Pass
Media:	Enhanced Cellulose
Height:	5.178 (132)*
Outer Diameter Top:	3.66 (93)*
Outer Diameter Bottom:	Closed:
Thread Size:	5/8-18
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI:	None
Burst Pressure-PSI:	380
Max Flow Rate:	1-3 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating:	10

 

(  )* denotes metric

 

Gasket Diameters

Number	O.D.	I.D.	Thk.
Attached	2.834 (72)*	2.462 (63)*	0.200 (5)*

 

Principle Application:

Principle Application:

Allis-Chalmers, Fiat, Continental, GM, Hyster, Isuzu, Iveco, Towmotor, Other - By-pass filter - can be used w/ 24755 or 24098 bases

All Applications

[ptwothree]

Here's mine....Wix 24755 . The filter is a napa 1320 spin on bypass.

Edited July 2, 2019 by ptwothree
Add a part number

[Sam Buchanan]

You guys with the spin-on filters, do you pre-fill the filter prior to installation?

 

Lots of great info here, thanks!

Edited July 2, 2019 by Sam Buchanan

[Dodgeb4ya]

I always do..

[Sam Buchanan]

Ok.....found a ton of remote oil filter adapters......but where did you find one with 5/8" nipple threads for the Wix and NAPA filters mentioned above? What I'm finding are 3/4" and 13/16" filter threads.

 

Maybe an adapter stud like this?

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Sam Buchanan

[DJ194950]

Sam I tried to reply last night but my seldom used house laptop refused to let me reply?

 

I found two Wix filter mounts that fit the 5/8" thread.

 

Wix 24755  has 1/8" pipe in/out. seems perfect as no pipe adapters would be needed.

 

or Wix 24055, would need adaptes.

 

both are avail. at amazon and others.

 

actually I see nothing wrong with the adapter you posted, just put some thread lock on the bigger thread after confirming fit.

 

DJ

 

[Sam Buchanan]

5 hours ago, DJ194950 said:

Sam I tried to reply last night but my seldom used house laptop refused to let me reply?

 

I found two Wix filter mounts that fit the 5/8" thread.

 

Wix 24755  has 1/8" pipe in/out. seems perfect as no pipe adapters would be needed.

 

or Wix 24055, would need adaptes.

 

both are avail. at amazon and others.

 

actually I see nothing wrong with the adapter you posted, just put some thread lock on the bigger thread after confirming fit.

 

DJ

 

 

Excellent. I ran across the 24755 but the site I was using didn't provide enough specs to determine what it would fit. Thanks for the info, now I need to decide whether or not to install an original-style filter or an after-market spin-on setup....or remain filterless.  

 

By the way, there are four Wix filters, all bypass type, that will fit the 24755 mount, each just varies in length:

51050, 51051, 51320, and 51704. As of this writing all the filters and the mount are in stock at Rock Auto.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Sam Buchanan

[knuckleharley]

On 6/29/2019 at 3:36 PM, Sam Buchanan said:

 

I can't answer that question because I have no clue what kind of oil has been in this engine for the past twenty years. I put detergent 10W-30 in it when returning the car to service after a 5-year hibernation. I may pull the pan at the next oil change to replace the lower crank seal, we'll see what is in the bottom of the pan then.

Keep a VERY close eye on the oil pressure gauge,and shut it down if the oil pressure starts to drop.

 

I bought a 57 Ford tractor a while back from a guy in a nearby state that put it up for sale after changing the oil to HD 10w-30 and being shocked when the oil pressure dropped to zero. I discovered this AFTER I bought the tractor that "runs perfectly" and started watching the oil pressure drop as I used it.  I ended up having to change the oil filter and oil 3 times to flush out the clogged areas. I ended up putting non-detergent straight 30 wt in it after getting it cleared out some,and used it that way for a couple of years with no trouble before I bought a newer,larger tractor,and parked it.

I am sure the guy that sold it to me thought he was lying to me when I asked him about the mechanical condition. The oil filter was so heavy when I changed it the first time it was almost comical.