No spark

[Dodgeb4ya]

Those copper strap condensers come with a plastic covering...though can work with out it.

Not proper though.

[Dave72dt]

I just started reading this thread and I assume the dist. is still out of the engine.  Now would be a good time to check for voltage coming out of the coil and or the lead form the coil to the dis. if it hasn't been done already.  A simple, cheap test light will work just fine.   Know how far you actually have power one connection at a time.  Once inside the dist., it's one piece at a time.  Slide a piece of paper between the points so they aren't grounded.

[Carl]

I had spark when I first started to get it started. It almost started then nothing. I found a broken lead from the power wire coming to distributor to points. No power when I replaced it. I have power into coil but none coming out.

[Merle Coggins]

3 minutes ago, Carl said:

I had spark when I first started to get it started. It almost started then nothing. I found a broken lead from the power wire coming to distributor to points. No power when I replaced it. I have power into coil but none coming out.

 

If the points are closed you won't read voltage on the wire between the coil and distributor as the points are providing a ground for that wire. You won't read voltage on a grounded wire. Hold the points open and test it again. If you still don't show voltage on that wire you may have it shorted to ground somewhere before the connection to the points, or the coil has an open circuit internally. 

[Carl]

If the coil was wired wrong , would that make a difference. I have it wired so the primer lead to distr is on the positive terminal.

[Los_Control]

should be negative but I believe the coil does not care. Someone may correct me on this.

 

Way I understand it, the coil gets use to running one direction. after years of use ... you pull a used coil off the shelf with no idea if it was + or - ground the last time used ... it will run but maybe give some weird issues at higher rpm.

 

also if you convert your car to 12 volt - ground, swapping the hot wire to the coil is one of the steps.

 

This is not your issue.

If you have power going to the outside of distributor, but checking inside the distributor you lose power ... something is wrong in that area and needs corrected.

[Dave72dt]

Detach the small wire going from the coil to the distributor.  Do you have ;power coming out of that coil terminal with the key on?  That takes anything downstream of the coil out of the equation.  If you do have power, replace that wire onto the coil and remove it at the distributor end and retest at the end of the wire for power.  If you have power there, reattach the wire and disconnect the points and condenser.  Retest where the power comes through the distributor case.  Next is the points with some paper between the point contacts to insulate them. Power?  At any point where you don't have power, you have a problem that needs to be corrected and it's between the last verified power location and your newest testing location.  By testing in a logical sequence, you can narrow the problem area down.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Dave72dt

[Carl]

The wiring diagrams I have seen has the distributor power wire wired to positive side of coil.

[Sniper]

23 minutes ago, Carl said:

The wiring diagrams I have seen has the distributor power wire wired to positive side of coil.

 

That is correct for an otherwise stock 1950 Plymouth, though it is not a power wire it is an intermittent ground going thru the points.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Sniper

[kencombs]

22 hours ago, Carl said:

I had spark when I first started to get it started. It almost started then nothing. I found a broken lead from the power wire coming to distributor to points. No power when I replaced it. I have power into coil but none coming out.

We really need to know the details of how that measurement was taken.  Points open or closed, wire connected to coil or not, wire connected to distributor or not etc.   For instance, if the points are closed, there will be no voltage at the coil + terminal to measure.

[Carl]

I want to thank all of the input on my project. I replaced the breaker plate with an original one. Now I have spark.  Now I’m making progress. I probably will be back.

[wagoneer]

I’m in a similar spot but I’ve gone to a bench test 

I’m  starting to experience all these failure points. My bench test is failing. I’ve gone through two ignition coils and four condensers. I’ve checked all the continuity and lack of continuity highlighted by @Kilgore47

Hard to tell which component is failing; thoughts?

 

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by wagoneer

[chrysler1941]

9 hours ago, wagoneer said:

Hard to tell which component is failing; thoughts?

 

You forgot to ground the spark plug

[desoto1939]

Check where the breaker plate  come out of the dizzy body. Under this flat spot were the wire fromt he coil attaches there should be a piece of  red sort of looking bakelite maternial. This prevent the breaker plate from grounding out the dizzy. On some of the older dizzy' they had a rubber insert in the body where the breaker plate comes through the body. This small piece of rubber was also used to prevent the plate from grounding.

 

Check you dizzy at that location.

 

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[greg g]

Did you order your parts using the distributor  number, or the standard year, make an g d model routine? There were at least three different styles of distributor used over the years of flathead engine use. Rotors and caps do not interchange among these different designs although the whole distributor  will interchange. ( except for between 23.5 inch and 25 inch engines. Any good counterman should know of these differences and enquire of the number starting with three letters from the distributer number.  If you put IAT parts in an IGS  distributor  they won't play nicely.  You won't know which series you have unless you pull the distributor and read the number on the data plate.

[Sniper]

1 hour ago, greg g said:

Any good counterman should know of these differences and enquire of the number starting with three letters from the distributer number. 

 

Why would they know?  I was in elementary school when they quit making these engines and I'm 56.  Antique engines require an owner to know these things because it isn't neither effective nor useful to expect the counterman to know them.

[greg g]

Guess I am blessed with both an informed owner and competent counter person. She asked me if I had the distributor number when I went in for points a couple years back.

[Los_Control]

I actually think I have a competent counter person ... Ol Charlie is ok in my book.

I actually just brought my distributor in with me to buy points.

He looked up the #, went back and grabbed the points off the shelf that matched the # We looked at them and were backwards of what my points plate wanted.

 

Now I have to wonder if someone took 2 distributors and made 1 work .... or did Charlie have the wrong points in his package?

Someday I will take it to Napa and see what they show ... for now my points are in good shape ... just saying there are strange things that happen.

[wagoneer]

Local parts places only know by car and engine; they don’t ask for distributor. AB’s is the only place that asks me. The local parts shops can’t search by distributor number either, and the last one asked me what is a condenser.

 

 Looking at these distributors, a dizzy is a dizzy is a dizzy. Why did they bother to make so many variations of the basic one?! Even if the body is physically different, the points look and function the same and the condenser (what is the difference and couldn’t we look at capacitors as a modern well built alternative?).

 

 

@chrysler1941 @Sniper  grounding the spark didn’t change anything.

 

I ordered fresh tune up parts and coil from AB. 
 

@desoto1939 could you look at my pics below and see if the breaker plate looks good?

 

yhere is a rubber grommet that the coil + wire goes through the dizzy body that is not in the pic. I don’t see any bake light under it though.

 

also the stationary screw goes through the plate and slides in the slot - limits how far the top plate moves but moves smoothly. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[greg g]

There are some where the points are mounted upside down to what we think of as the normal position.

 

Looking at the chart I my 46 manual that cover through P19s it appears that there is a difference  in advance curve probably in consideration of the increase in compression ratio and the increasing octane of fuel.   The advance begins sooner and onasteeper curve in the later years.

[chrysler1941]

Ok one step at a time.

First step, do a continuity test. Install plate back in distributor.

Loosen nut, remove condenser wire. Measure between plate and nut. Should be 0 ohm. Open points with fingers. Should read OL (open loop). 

Edited June 14, 2021 by chrysler1941

[Jrobi]

Hi, I’m having similar problems, spark out of the coil but not out of the dizzy. Im thinking my problem could be either the cap or the rotor button. Any help would be appreciated both parts are new from local parts stores

[Dave72dt]

Did you use the distributor number when getting parts?  The parts are different depending on distributor number.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Dave72dt

[Kilgore47]

On 5/2/2021 at 12:51 PM, Kilgore47 said:

Replacing parts may be required. But I have always tried to fix what is there first.  I will try to explain what I would do if this were my distributor.  A copy of the picture of your distributor is attached with comments.

 

     Orange - This wire is there to ground the body of the dist to the points plate.  Check for continuity.  

 

     Yellow - Check this with the points open.  The wire from the coil to the points, the copper strap from the condenser to the points and the points should not be grounded to the body of the dist.  The copper strap should be insulated so it will not touch the dist body.  This could be done with heat shrink tubing. 

 

     Purple - There is an insulating bushing here to insulate the points from the body of the dist when the points are open.

 

     Red - This is the wire from the coil to the points.  It appears to be there but it is stuffed down in there somewhere.  Reroute or replace this wire so that it does not ground to the body of the dist.

 

     Blue - This is where the wire from the coil connects to the dist.  Check this through connection to make sure it does not ground to the body of the dist.  You may consider replacing this wire also.  It looks a little worn.

 

     Green - This area looks a little tattered.  When you reassemble the dist I'm sure it will look and function better.

 

I know that this is probably not as clear to you as it is in my head so feel free to ask questions.

 

 As stated above you should remove, disassemble and clean the dist on your bench.   Or the kitchen table if you won't get in too much trouble for that.

 

Go through your distributor and check for shorts.  I added this post May 2 but on my computer it looked like the picture wasn't there any more.  

[desoto1939]

when doing a tune up I always replace the Breaker plate with a NOS unit since all of thye parts and smallwires are connected inthe correct order.  Then I  cleanup the old one that I just tookout of the dizzy and rebuild it with NOS replacement Autolite components. It is so much easier and quicker for me and I can also check that allof the small wires have not lost any of their insulation.

 

Rich

Desoto1939@aol.com