Driving late 30's early 40's Plymouths

[likaleica]

I'm a newcomer to driving these cars having just got my 39 Plymouth Touring Sedan on the road after buying it as a non-runner 18 months ago. I'd welcome any driving tips on getting the best out of the car.

Mine is a right hand drive export model with a floor shift like the P7 RoadKing (but with other features such as front quarter-lights like the P8 Deluxe)

I've already learned not to rush the gear shifts, but I'm still experiencing the odd nasty crunch when down-shifting especially from Top (3rd) gear to 2nd. 

The clutch seems OK and was recently adjusted according to the workshop repair manual. 

Is this a case of worn synchromesh?

I wonder if other folks habitually double de-clutch when downshifting these cars ?  Or maybe "gas in the gears"  by blipping the throttle while the gearshift lever is in neutral before selecting the lower gear ?

I'd be interested in others' experiences !

 

[Andydodge]

When I had my 41 Plymouth Coupe I had to readjust driving it as compared to the 40 Dodge which has a V8, auto, discs, etc........steering and brakes were stock and required a bit of getting used to again.......the Dodge was all original when I first got it and I had forgotten what a stocker was like....its been a hotrod since 1973......lol.......you mention the gears, well even with a good synchro set you just have to take your time, these are not 2015 model cars..........lol........I tended to double clutch also going from 3rd to 2nd and be real positive in the shift points...........btw the Plymouth was a factory RHD car built in Sth Africa..........been 2 yrs since sold but I do miss its idiosyncracies.......I used to take both out on the weekend and just enjoy the similarities and differences, tho I must admit the 1941 Plymouth brakes were not my favourites......lol..........these are old cars and are great to enjoy as just that.........regards, Andy Douglas  

[greg g]

My second gear sychro is nothing to write home about on the down shift either.  For example on making a turn at an intersection, instead of shifting down in anticipation of the turn, I usually wait till I am half way through the turn before dropping a gear and some times I still get a bit of a grumble.  Many times, if speed doesn't drop below 20 Mph, during the turn, I just leav eit in 3rd and let the low end torque do its thing to accelerate away from the turn.  

 

Are you getting any resistance selecting 1st or reverse from neutral at rest at idle?  If so your clutch may not be completely disengaging.  not enough friction to cause the car to move, but enough to spin the input shaft.  If this is happening, it may also be the case during your down shift also. Slightly shortening the linkage to the release bearing fork may address this. This will assure the bearing does not have any contact with the release fingers.  

[Barabbas]

A third vote for double clutching on the downshift as for 1st to 2nd upshift--no problem as long as you remember it is a definite "H" patern with a slight pause in the center--whenever I get in a hurry and try to shift on a  diaganol pattern-she will grind.

The rubber band steering also took me a while to get used to.  I also find that even with front disc brakes, that I have to start braking a lot sooner than I would in my modern cars

[desoto1939]

Yes would have to agree that when you get back into one of these older cars you need to readjust your driving habits.  These car are 60+ YEARS OLD TECHNOLOGY AND WE SHOULD all be setting our driving habits back to that period of time.  We should anticipate the driving of these cars, watch to see how long that green light has been green. These cars stop but require some distance.

 

So anticipate the stopping time and distance because of fade. Also people think we can just jump out from a standing stopped position at a red light or stop sign.  Life was slower back then but life is at a mush faster pace now. So be prepared for everyone to be in a hurry and they will be right up your tailpipe from a red light.  I have driven model A's and other older cars such as a 1915 Overland so I have the experience with the older cars but always have to remind myself when driving an antique car.

 

Just think before you take it out of the garage and Always, Always anticipate the reactions of other drivers on the road!!!!!  ALso try to make you car standout with some form of rear orange triangle or flashing light in the rear to get the other drivers attention.

 

rich Hartung

[Don Coatney]

A rear orange triangle is the required sign for slow moving vehicles such as farm and horse driven equipment. I don't believe such  a placard is legal on a car capable of driving at highway speed.

 

From Wikipedia.

 

In the United States and Canada an individual vehicle, a vehicle which is being towed, or caravans of vehicles, which are unable to reach a maximum speed of 65 kilometers an hour(45 miles per hour) are required by law to display a special reflective emblem sign at the rear of the vehicle or vehicles, or on the rear vehicle in the caravan.

[Merle Coggins]

A rear orange triangle is the required sign for slow moving vehicles such as farm and horse driven equipment. I don't believe such  a placard is legal on a car capable of driving at highway speed.

 

From Wikipedia.

 

In the United States and Canada an individual vehicle, a vehicle which is being towed, or caravans of vehicles, which are unable to reach a maximum speed of 65 kilometers an hour(45 miles per hour) are required by law to display a special reflective emblem sign at the rear of the vehicle or vehicles, or on the rear vehicle in the caravan.

 

Hmm, that gives me an idea...

[Don Coatney]

Hmm, that gives me an idea...

Thought it might.

[desoto1939]

A rear orange triangle is the required sign for slow moving vehicles such as farm and horse driven equipment. I don't believe such  a placard is legal on a car capable of driving at highway speed.

 

From Wikipedia.

 

In the United States and Canada an individual vehicle, a vehicle which is being towed, or caravans of vehicles, which are unable to reach a maximum speed of 65 kilometers an hour(45 miles per hour) are required by law to display a special reflective emblem sign at the rear of the vehicle or vehicles, or on the rear vehicle in the caravan.

DON:  I know I am not required to have the orange triangle on the car. I had one made of three magnetic strips that had red reflective tape on the non magnetic side.  I put this on my trunk lid.. This could be seen during the daylight and since it is reflective is could be seen at dusk when the car light hit the reflective material.  I feel that having the reflective triangle added another safety item to help identify that I might be going slower that the traffic at 50+ mph.

 

You have to protect you rear end when driving these old cars and possibly your own rear end pardon the pun.

 

Cannot hurt and was never stopped by any local or PA, Del and or NJ state police.

 

Rich HArtung

Edited June 15, 2015 by desoto1939

[_shel_ny]

A "must" for one situation does not necessarily mean a "must not" for another situation.

Edited June 15, 2015 by shel_ny

[Don Coatney]

Rich; I fully understand covering your backside. I have converted my center brake light to also fire the dual filament parking lights. And I have converted all lights to LED's. And I have utilized a special feature that blinks all brake lights in rapid succession as soon as I tap the brake pedal.

 

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/DonCoatney/Lights/th_Mvc-005v.mp4

 

 

[Frank Elder]

You " drive " a modern car............You operate a motor vehicle..........these are the latter.

[P15-D24]

Need to know what your working with. Does the 3 speed have syncros for second to third or is it a crash box (no syncros on any gear)? If it does have syncros you should be able to go up and down between 2nd and 3rd without grinding. If you can't the syncros need replacement. Shift to neutral when coming to a stop, don't try to force into first. (It will grind) When starting go to second for a moment then back to first. Should drop into first gear no grinding. The trip to second stops the inputs shaft from spinning making first gear easy to engage.

 

If it is a crash box first learn to correctly double clutch including matching the speed as you go up and down.(Bump the engine speed up when downshifting) Then learn how to match the speed to engine speed so you don't need the clutch except for starting and stopping. You can actually shift quite quickly with a crash box once you learn the technique.

[thebeebe5]

Not to hijack this thread, (and I AM in the same boat as the OP being new to real antique car operation) but how does one find out if their trans was syncro equiped? I am learning to shift s-l-o-w-l-y between gears on my '37 as it WILL grind if I rush it. I assumed this was because it was a non-syncro trans, but maybe my gearbox needs service?

[TodFitch]

Not to hijack this thread, (and I AM in the same boat as the OP being new to real antique car operation) but how does one find out if their trans was syncro equiped? I am learning to shift s-l-o-w-l-y between gears on my '37 as it WILL grind if I rush it. I assumed this was because it was a non-syncro trans, but maybe my gearbox needs service?

For Plymouth is is easy: 1935 and up into the 1960s there are synchros on second and third. Not sure when Detroit decided that synchros on 1st were a good idea but I know it was after '63.

[Robert Horne]

My 66 Plymouth 3 speed trans was no better than my 38 trans, no syncho for first gear..

[Merle Coggins]

So, it's true... A SMV sigh IS for vehicles that can't go over 45 MPH.

[Don Coatney]

And whom would that slow truck belong to?

[Furylee2]

Saw this truck at Mopars-in-the-Park a couple of weeks ago.  He won first place.

[Merle Coggins]

It's Mark's truck. (ggdad1951)

I had to follow him down the freeway this morning at 40 MPH on the way to Back to the 50's

Edited June 19, 2015 by Merle Coggins

[ggdad1951]

It was not 40....

[Merle Coggins]

Ok, I'll give you 45 but no more.

It was a fund day, even with the teasing of Mark.

[likaleica]

Thanks guys - a wealth of good advice that I'll put to use.

My box certainly is syncro on 2nd and 3rd as going up the box there is no problem at all.

I do get grinding into first unless the engine is at true idle speed - so momentarily going into second then into first sounds like a great idea.

Shifting down from top to 2nd I do think I am missing the gate. On my RHD car with the floor shift you have to guide the lever quite close to the rim of the steering wheel - the gate is further over than you think.

The lack of respect from other drivers for antique cars is just as bad here in the UK.  The first I time I drove my car last week (from the repair shop to the paint shop) I experienced several examples of rude and dangerous behaviour. One guy in a delivery truck pulled out round a parked car on his side of the road - ignoring the fact that I had right of way - and blasted past the Plymouth so close I was breathing in hard!

[Plymouthy Adams]

in some people this behavior is just an expressed form of jealously..you cannot change nor kill the offenders

[likaleica]

My second gear sychro is nothing to write home about on the down shift either.  For example on making a turn at an intersection, instead of shifting down in anticipation of the turn, I usually wait till I am half way through the turn before dropping a gear and some times I still get a bit of a grumble.  Many times, if speed doesn't drop below 20 Mph, during the turn, I just leav eit in 3rd and let the low end torque do its thing to accelerate away from the turn.  

 

Are you getting any resistance selecting 1st or reverse from neutral at rest at idle?  If so your clutch may not be completely disengaging.  not enough friction to cause the car to move, but enough to spin the input shaft.  If this is happening, it may also be the case during your down shift also. Slightly shortening the linkage to the release bearing fork may address this. This will assure the bearing does not have any contact with the release fingers.  

Thanks for this Greg. I'm not quite sure what you mean by shortening the linkage tho  - do you mean adjusting the nuts or actually modifying the linkage in some way ?