Fire

[pflaming]

With a higher pitch roof this building would do just as good as a wood frame and be a lot warmer. I will put on a good motion sensor with BRIGHT light(s) before I remove the temp fence between the building and the alley. Taggers would love to mark this building. 

[JerseyHarold]

if you worry about the building getting tagged, ask your builder if there is a wax or silicone you can apply to the outside surface so paint won't stick.

[pflaming]

That 8' X 4' extension saved me at least $5,000. That allowed me to 'restore' instead of 'rebuild'. Once it's all approved, then I will replace the dry wall and reorganize the shelves and make that a 'specialty' bench and shop office. Should be able to put "The Phoenix" in tonight. I think it will like it's new digs. 

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2014 by pflaming

[ggdad1951]

what's the skin made out of?  Dry wall on the inside?  How secure is that?  Just wondering since it seems you have a bit more crime than I'd be comfortable with.

[Jeff Balazs]

Hey Paul;

Congrats on the new digs. Enjoy! Looks like the "Phoenix" has a new hanger.

 

Jeff

[pflaming]

"The Phoenix" has landed. It looks great in its new nest. There was only one way to test those pipe's strength, so I chained a winch to one and unloaded the engine and tyranny that was in the truck bed. It did not break a sweat.  The building has ample room for two cars. The engine is a '52 Studebaker with an overdrive tyranny. 

 

 

 

 

The Studebaker engine will go into this truck this winter. Before that I have to finish the suburban and detail the truck so I can drive it out to Indianapolis, IN and give it to my daughter. When I do that I wlll need a truck. This truck I can drive home if I wish. 

 

 

 

[Desotodav]

The new shed looks great PP. It sure is good to see the recycled Phoenix back in place again!

So there will be a Studebaker truck in the stable too soon?

[Jeff Balazs]

Paul;

I hate to say this.......but man are you fickle. This Studie makes how many different projects you have started? You crack me up.

More power to you I suppose. The Studebaker truck is cool but there are at least 2 or 3 decent Pilothouse true patina project trucks on my local Craigslist right now. I am surprised you didn't jump on one of those............ maybe you were put off by yellow?

 

Jeff

[Dave72dt]

I wouldn't have even begun to think about using a rafter like that for lifting an engine.   Ask the building engineer if it can safely support the weight suspended the way you did before doing it again.  Having the building come down around your  shoulders  wouldn't be a good thing and getting away with it once doesn't mean it won't happen the next time you try it.

[Don Coatney]

I wouldn't have even begun to think about using a rafter like that for lifting an engine.   Ask the building engineer if it can safely support the weight suspended the way you did before doing it again.  Having the building come down around your  shoulders  wouldn't be a good thing and getting away with it once doesn't mean it won't happen the next time you try it.

Dave, you are so correct. Schedule 20 (or possibly10) tubing is not designed to carry anything close to that weight.

[DJ194950]

Paul, not sure what to say except sometimes you scare me!

 

Just got a new toy and already trying to break it!

 

 

Doug

[48Dodger]

how does that handle snow load?  

 

Apparently its around 725 lbs Mark, give or take a rafter....lol.

 

48D

Edited May 17, 2014 by 48dodger

[Eneto-55]

There was only one way to test those pipe's strength, so I chained a winch to one and unloaded the engine and tyranny that was in the truck bed. It did not break a sweat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Paul,

The picture doesn't show how you attached the lift - maybe the weight was distributed across several 'rafters', but when we pulled engines back home we laid a drive shaft in the cradle (where braces come down to the ceiling joist) across 3 trusses (24" center, 24' span) to distribute the weight.  We pulled heavier engines than these flat heads (pulled a couple of these in there, too), and I also lifted my entire 46 Ply in the same manner, suspended at the firewall and rear fender mounts.  Maybe that pipe is bigger diameter than it looks in the pictures, and maybe heavier wall, too.  The constuction looks a lot like a lot of green houses are set up here in Ohio, and they take the snow load, but I don't know what they are actually rated for.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2014 by Eneto-55

[pflaming]

This hobby and this forum may be the most fascinating journey I've ever taken. A garage burns and the information related to fire, demolition, building ideas, auto body finishing, etc., etc., just continues.

 

Here is an event, a hoist is attached to a pipe structure and a valid discussion occurs related to safety, stress, risk, etc ensues and that fascinates me.  The question on my mind is this: was it risky and unsafe to lift that engine attached to one pipe truss? I do not think so because even if that pipe had failed, 800 # of mass would not have severed that pipe, it might have bent it and damage the structure. For that pipe to give the wall which is secured every 36" with another truss would have had to go out and every truss would have had to bend out and that is unlikely.

 

Will I lift another engine in this manner, no. We will put together a beam which is supported by at least three of those trusses. Why, because it just makes sense and that beam will extend the area from which I can lift by nearly 72".  

 

This building will allow me to have a first class shop. I will treat it with all due respect and that includes listening to and considering any and all suggestions on how to use it and to use it safely.  

 

I am indebted to so many of you. It is becoming quite a journey. Thank you to all. 

 

edit: the shop is unkempt in this picture. The car doors were in the truck and the items on the tables came out of the addition so I can clean it and paint it. Zachary asked this building was a big as Tim's  (48dodgers). I asked him if he like Tim's and why. His response was:  " He has it so organized!". Quite an observation for a nine year old boy. So he is going to help Papa keep this organized. 

 

Edited May 17, 2014 by pflaming

[48Dodger]

 

 

...Zachary asked if this building was as big as Tim's  (48dodgers). I asked him if he liked Tim's and why. His response was:  " He has it so organized!". Quite an observation for a nine year old boy. So he is going to help Papa keep this organized...... 

 

LOL.....Don, don't you dare pull any of your "Tim's messy shop pictures" out......you'll crush a little boy's heart.   

Paul, tell Zee I said Thank you!!

 

48D

[JerseyHarold]

One more thing about a hoist attached to your new structure:  It may void your warranty.

[Plymouthy Adams]

setting aside the slip of sensibility mentioned above, I could not help but notice how quickly that patina is turning into full fledged rust on the that truck front fender and door...again..this is only what we see..lord only knows what the underside looks like..

 

I see the truck and a white car in the shop...you already out of room...time to build on...

[pflaming]

" I'm just a old chunk of coal. . ." 

 

 

 

"BUT, I'm gonna be diamond some day!"  

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

not so worried I think about bldg. warranty as it could be in voiding PP..by the very design of the chain..they alternate  between flat and vertical links..the vertical links around a light duty tube could cause a kink...this kink would cause a partial collapse of the tubing and with the down jolt of the weight suspended such as it was..could cause even greater amount of folding and if one gives, the avalanche effect of that jolt would spread left and right to adjacent supports..while the structure may not fail completely..it will damage the pipes..the screws will rip out of the roofing and someone could get hurt by the suspended weight dropping..a building such as this is not designed for supporting suspended weight to this scale..I think an investment into a rolling gantry would be a safer bet

[pflaming]

From this Feb 2014 to:

 

 

this May 2014

 

 

Now to start cleaning up the yard, do some landscaping and some serious interior decorating while trying to rebuild the truck. It's been a hard 90 days but the best is now beginning. We're very thankful and just love the new building. 

 

This will just about wrap up this thread. Thank you all again for you unqualified support. 

[pflaming]

OMG: Today I cleaned up the distributor. When I was done, my hands were again, full of soot. Everything I touch on the truck has soot and it slowly occurred to me that the removal of soot is not the same as the removal of 50 years of dirt, dust, and grime. So I wondered it I really wanted to give this truck to anyone, let alone my daughter.

 

So I looked up 'soot'. I cleaned up that garage without a respirator. Read this, I made a huge mistake and hope I will not pay heavily for it.

 

 

Industrial Hygiene - What is Soot and Why is it Dangerous?

Posted by Zachary Keefe on Wed, Dec 11, 2013 @ 03:47 PM

 

 

 

4
inShare

 

 

 

 

The word "soot" sounds so simple and harmless. To some, it conjures up images of campfires and candles, and perhaps a charming dance number from Mary Poppins.

In fact, soot is anything but simple and is certainly not harmless.

Soot includes the fine black particles, chiefly composed of carbon, produced by incomplete combustion of coal, oil, wood, or other fuels. Soot can consist of acids, chemicals, metals, soils, and dust. The common trait of soot particles is that they are extremely tiny – 2.5 micrometers or smaller in diameter. This is smaller than dust and mold, and is about 1/30 the diameter of a human hair.

This combination – extremely small size and toxic composition – is what makes soot so dangerous. It can travel deep into the lung, where the compounds it consists of can do some serious damage.

Sources

Soot is the byproduct of the burning of fossil fuels. This includes burning coal for electricity or industrial fuel, manufacturing, oil refining, and motor vehicles.

Soot enters the environment either as a solid particle or as a gas which turns into a particle after it has been released. These particles can end up very far away from their site of origin.

Soot can also become a problem following a fire. A common house fire results in the burning of a wide variety of materials, from wood and paper to plastics and other synthetic items. This results in soot contamination, and poses a serious cleanup problem.

Soot can also negatively impact Indoor Air Quality. Excessive use of candles in an indoor environment can lead to a buildup of soot. This sometimes leads to "ghosting", where the tiny soot particles cling to areas of walls and ceilings due to electrostatic attraction. This can also happen when fireplaces are insufficiently ventilated. If you see these "soot ghosts" in your home, you may want to rethink your level of candle usage or have your chimney evaluated. 

Risks - Health & Environment

Compounds from soot - sulfur dioxides and nitrogen oxides - combine with moisture to form acid rain, which worsens water quality, damages soil and crops, and changes nutrient balances in various ecosystems.

Breathing the tiny particles can cause coronary heart disease, asthma, bronchitis, and many other respiratory illnesses. 

Research has also shown that many premature deaths are directly related to soot in the environment. Particle exposure leads to around 20,000 premature deaths in America each year. Many of these deaths were caused by soot-related diseases. Data also show that soot annually causes almost 300,000 asthma attacks and 2 million lost workdays due to repiratory problems.

Edited May 24, 2014 by pflaming

[RobertKB]

Take it to a local car wash and wash the hell out of it. Everywhere, underneath, in the cab, engine compartment, etc. You will likely be fine. Think what chimney sweeps went through. They probably died of some disease, infection, malnutrition long before the soot got them. My dad grew up in pre-war London and if you want to talk about a toxic atmosphere, that would be it. Everyone had coal fires, coal stoves, coal water heaters,coal power plants, etc. He can remember sleeping on the roof in the summer and being covered in soot in the morning. He is now 94.

 

Also think what crap smokers put in their lungs and many beat the odds and live a long time.  Don't panic but see a doctor if it will ease your mind.

[ggdad1951]

I wouldn't freak out too much...like anything in the world, the internet makes a bigger deal out of things than needs to be.  Firefighters deal with this all the time as do criminalists, and they seem to be fine.  The PEL is probably in your favor by a mile.

[TheMoose]

I wouldn't freak out too much...like anything in the world, the internet makes a bigger deal out of things than needs to be.  Firefighters deal with this all the time as do criminalists, and they seem to be fine.  The PEL is probably in your favor by a mile.

I spent 28 years as a Firefighter, I started in 81 when use of Self Contained Breathing Apparatus was still "optional".

While I do not recommend being in any dusty, smokey or sooty area without a mask of some sort pflaming cleaning out his burnt shop was most likely no worse than spending time in a smokey bar.

That's assuming there was no toxic chemicals in the mix.

I wouldn't worry too much but I do recommend use of filter masks in such conditions.

[TrampSteer]

Looks great Paul. When you put that  beam up there you might as well put wheels on a trolly too so you can move things from one end to the other. Plus it doubles as a great diversion for the kids when they come over if you hook up a swing to it!