Fuel pump life span

[John-T-53]

It's a "pooper" to hear so many pumps are failing prematurely. Especially with such a simple issue as the pivot pin.

 

I plan on stashing a rebuilt pump under my seat too (along with tools to change it). Will check out "Then and Now". There was past talk on here of another place that sells pump rebuild kits as well, and the name slips my mind.

 

Hank - I always appreciate your "exploded view" photos of parts. So how the heck do you R&R the diaphragm from the link?" Grind it down and re-peen?

[greg g]

There is a test in the repair manual to determine proper fuel flow volume.  It has been referenced on this forum several dozen times.  Every suspect fuel pump should be put to this simple and effective test as part of a fault finding procedure.

[John-T-53]

Well, fast forward a couple years and a few thousand miles....here we go again.

 

Same issue with the troublesome pivot pin. Last time when I acquired a new pump, I staked the casting around the pin ends, but I guess it wasn't good 'nuff.

 

I made it back from the BBQ ok, drove it around town for the week, then it wouldn't start the other evening. Luckily, I happened to be parked outside my friend's machine shop, so we made a new pin with a c-clip groove in one end, and the other end with a "head", so it hopefully won't come out again!

[Jamiejimbob]

That's a great post and really informative pics especially for a Flathead newbie like me. Great people on a great forum!

[Don Coatney]

Such pins are available from McMaster Carr

 

[Jeff Balazs]

Well, fast forward a couple years and a few thousand miles....here we go again.

 

Same issue with the troublesome pivot pin. Last time when I acquired a new pump, I staked the casting around the pin ends, but I guess it wasn't good 'nuff.

 

I made it back from the BBQ ok, drove it around town for the week, then it wouldn't start the other evening. Luckily, I happened to be parked outside my friend's machine shop, so we made a new pin with a c-clip groove in one end, and the other end with a "head", so it hopefully won't come out again!

This and the possibility of oil dilution is why I chose to fit a vane type electric pump instead. Of all the operating failures you see here this one seems to be near the top of the list.

 

Jeff

[DJ194950]

Such pins are available from McMaster Carr

 

 

Are these Pins hardened or at least surface hardened?  as the fuel pump arm rides on this pin and will wear down quickly if not.

 

Had the same question on a pin JohnT over on the truck forum just had one turned on a lathe by a machinist friend for his pump on his truck that had started coming out.

[TodFitch]

. . . so we made a new pin with a c-clip groove in one end, and the other end with a "head", so it hopefully won't come out again!

 

 

Such pins are available from McMaster Carr

 

 

 

The last fuel pump rebuilding kits I received from Then & Now Automotive (a.k.a. Antique Auto Parts Cellar) had pins with grooves cut in them and there were c-clips in the kit to secure the pin.

[Don Coatney]

Such pins are available from McMaster Carr

 

 

Are these Pins hardened or at least surface hardened?  as the fuel pump arm rides on this pin and will wear down quickly if not.

 

Had the same question on a pin JohnT over on the truck forum just had one turned on a lathe by a machinist friend for his pump on his truck that had started coming out.

I dont know if they are hardened. But I have not heard of any pins original or not failing from excessive ware. Failures have always been from the pins slipping in the pump casting. The pins are steel and the pump casting is softer aluminum. Your guess??

[ggdad1951]

Pretty easy to see if they are hardened. A punch will tell you quick if they are hardened.

[pflaming]

Like Jeff, I switched too. When I start my engine, I count to four then engage the starter. My engine starts immediately with out choke or gas pedal assistance. If the next owner wants it original, there is a ready to go pump under the seat.

[John-T-53]

This and the possibility of oil dilution is why I chose to fit a vane type electric pump instead. Of all the operating failures you see here this one seems to be near the top of the list.

 

Jeff

 

This is failure #3 at the fuel pump for me.

 

I plan to switch to an electric fuel pump when I install headers on the motor.

 

And good info on McMaster Carr, however the replacement pin we had to make a little bigger in dia. due to when the old pin slipped out, it enlarged the bore slightly (maybe .002") so we cut the new pin with a made to order press fit.

Edited April 11, 2016 by John-T-53

[Jeff Balazs]

This is failure #3 at the fuel pump for me.

 

I plan to switch to an electric fuel pump when I install headers on the motor.

 

And good info on McMaster Carr, however the replacement pin we had to make a little bigger in dia. due to when the old pin slipped out, it enlarged the bore slightly (maybe .002") so we cut the new pin with a made to order press fit.

John;

Just reading about all the problems various people have had with this was enough to get me to ditch this item. I think this item along with bad wiring inside the distributor and / or bad points etc.....are the two most common problems I have seen people have. For what it is worth I prefer the electric fuel pump.......and don't mind at all that it is not bone stock. But then I expect a 60 year old vehicle in regular use to show some sign of evolutionary change.

 

Jeff

[Don Coatney]

Jeff, You are slowly making me a believer. I do believe in evolutionary change in motor vehicles. Dependability in the vehicles produced today is much greater than vehicles produced 60-70 years ago. I have not yet experienced fuel pump failure in my P-15 but if and when I do my thinking at this time says electric is the way to go. However I have had a electric fuel pump failure in my 97 F-150 after well over two hundred thousand miles 

[pflaming]

It seems to me that new paint, disc brakes, dual point distributor, and dual carbs are all indicators of "old vehicle evolution (OVE)"!. 

[Jeff Balazs]

Don;

I am not saying that my fix is the only way to go here. Surely there are plenty of folks who have not had a problem with their fuel pumps.

I just kind of looked at this from my "hate to call for a tow truck" perspective and came up with a set up I prefer over the stock arrangement.

If I have a failure I can prove it is the pump in about a minute.......and change out the pump in about 15 or 20 minutes. All while the engine is still hot and with the on board tools and spares. This approach works for me and with the way I have put this truck together. Might not work as well for others.....especially if they are sticklers for originality or see no shame in calling for a tow.   

 

Jeff

[Brent B3B]

Jeff, you have never had problems with the electric fuel pump? where is yours mounted?

years ago, I had a 67 chev truck with an electric fuel pump mounted in the frame rail on the drivers side and on hot days (80deg and above) that pump would heat up ( I always referred to it as vapor lock) and shut the truck dead until the pump cooled down

I know your area gets a lot hotter.....  

[Don Coatney]

Don;

I am not saying that my fix is the only way to go here. Surely there are plenty of folks who have not had a problem with their fuel pumps.

I just kind of looked at this from my "hate to call for a tow truck" perspective and came up with a set up I prefer over the stock arrangement.

If I have a failure I can prove it is the pump in about a minute.......and change out the pump in about 15 or 20 minutes. All while the engine is still hot and with the on board tools and spares. This approach works for me and with the way I have put this truck together. Might not work as well for others.....especially if they are sticklers for originality or see no shame in calling for a tow. 

 

Jeff

Jeff, As soon as I win the lottery I will buy your truck at your asking price as I believe you have engineered the best dependability into your build.  

[pflaming]

Bremt. my pump must be mounted close to the fuel tank and below it as it is a push pump and relies on gravity flow from the fuel tank. I have mine mounted to the frame with a rubber pad between it and the frame: (a) to reduce the sound of the pump, and (2) to cushion it from the vibration of the truck frame.

 Others may be different. 

[Jeff Balazs]

Jeff, As soon as I win the lottery I will buy your truck at your asking price as I believe you have engineered the best dependability into your build.  

Don;

I have tried to.....but it still has some issues I am not satisfied with.

 

Brent; so far this fuel pump has been 100% good. It is mounted back by the tank and has a large filter ahead of it. I intentionally kept the line routed as far as possible from the exhaust manifold so heat has not been an issue. I also have an aux. heat shield below the carby.

 

Jeff

[bluebanshee]

I bought mine with a Facet installed on the frame by the motor, little noisy but works well. Can hear it quiet down once it has full pressure and starts instantly. Got a new Airtex E8016S pump in the box under the seat in case that one fails. Seems to be a lot of junk electric pumps on the market too and not just the aftermarket types we are using. I know you are supposed to push the fuel instead of pull it but so far so good even with the large canister fuel filter at the tank.

[Plymouthy Adams]

use these to quiet that Facet pump...been using them since about 1984...best bang for the buck...now marketed as a Puralator I believe or often seen as a Elderbrock...

 

just be sure you make a proper ground connection when using the iso mounts

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1Pc-Rubber-Shock-Absorber-Vibration-Isolator-Mount-1-4-20-1-x-3-4-Threaded-/371514985046?hash=item568004ca56:g:J0wAAOSwPcVVo1kn

 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Plymouthy Adams

[Joshuanotsosmart17]

Have a 39 Plymouth p7 deluxe business coupe with the 201 was getting fuel all the way to the pump but nothing after where do I go abouts to get a rebuild kit no idea if this is the original or not

[Jerry Roberts]

12 hours ago, Joshuanotsosmart17 said:

Have a 39 Plymouth p7 deluxe business coupe with the 201 was getting fuel all the way to the pump but nothing after where do I go abouts to get a rebuild kit no idea if this is the original or not

 

[Jerry Roberts]

See the post in this thread from 4-9-16 by Tod Fitch .