Fuel Flow issue.

[OUTFXD]

Driving home last night and Jacquiline just stopped.  Motor shut off and refused to do anything but sputter a bit.  with the help of a passerbye I managed to wrestle her into a near by parking lot.  as serendipity would have it I was only about a block from the local parts house.

 

It was quickly diagnosed as a fuel issue.  as in.  none to the carberator.  

 

at this point I assumed it was a plugged fuel pick up sock.  I bought a radiator overflow tank 2 foot of fuel line and some zip ties.

 

In no time I jimmied together a fuel system that I was sure would get me home.

 

One of the guys that stopped to help me suggested I route the new "fuel system" through the Fuel pump.

 

I hooked it up and hit the start button.  No joy.  checking the fuel line at the carb showed NO fuel flow.  and gravity feeding the fuel to the carb didnt flow enough fuel.  she would run, as long as I didnt touch the accelerator.

 

I just replaced the fuel pump... sadly I did it at the same time as I rebuilt the carb which made diagnosing the new "carb" propblems.... problematic.

 

So.. how do I go about testing the fuel pump if it is good and is it common for "new" pumps to be bad?

Edited September 15, 2022 by OUTFXD

[Sniper]

Apparently, it is common for the pivot pin on the fuel pump back out and the pump no longer pumps.  Did you look at that?

[OUTFXD]

I did not.  Thats external right? as In I dont have to remove the fuel pump (yet) to check it.

[Los_Control]

Yes @sniper is correct, thanks to all the high quality replacement parts coming from overseas .... The arm that rides on the cam, the pin that connects it to the fuel pump can walk out.

You would need to remove the fuel pump to see if this is the problem.

Then using a hammer & punch you mushroom over the head of pin on each side so it can not walk out again.

 

Still could be lots of other things. When I first started my truck I used original tank and running it in the yard was fine for several months ... eventually crap fell apart inside & plugged the pickup line. Let it sit and the crud would float away, start it & the crud would get sucked back in again.

 

Basically, remove the line from the pump & see if you have fuel coming from the tank to the fuel pump. If yes, then the pump is not pumping it to the carb.

[OUTFXD]

40 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Apparently, it is common for the pivot pin on the fuel pump back out

 

7 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

thanks to all the high quality replacement parts coming from overseas .... The arm that rides on the cam, the pin that connects it to the fuel pump can walk out

 

Does it look something like this?

 

Makes my head hurt to think such a little thing could cause so much bother.

[Sniper]

Yes, it looks exactly like that.  Is this the fuel pump in question?

[OUTFXD]

yup. Shot gasoline into my eye trying to get the pin back in so I'm pretty sure the pump still works correct.

 

Scored up the edges to try to keep it from backing out again... I am going to be paranoid about this forever now.  What was that?  Did the engine hesitate? Its that damn fuel pump pivot again! I know it!

[Young Ed]

Replace pin with a longer piece that can be either a nut bolt or something you can use clips on. 

[Los_Control]

I wonder if a grade 5 bolt of the correct diameter with a shoulder long enough to reach needed depth ... then two nuts to lock it down with ....

Would look like a fix from a old Hog farmer .... but it would be a good fix.

 

Just thinking a pin .... if you could find one, or even cut the head & threads off of a grade 5 bolt & used the shoulder .... You would need a drill press & a machinist vice to drill holes in the pin for cotter pins to hold it. ..... It would look more professional. Not technically better then the hog farmer fix above..

Choices.

[Sam Buchanan]

 

McMaster-Carr has a large variety of pins, some with cotter pins and some with circlips. Washers can be used to adjust the length of a pin that is a little long.

 

https://www.mcmaster.com/pins/clevis-pins-with-retaining-ring-groove-6/

[Doug&Deb]

Adding an electric pump would be cheap insurance. I use one for priming after sitting and to combat fuel percolation on hot days. Or simply replace the mechanical pump with electric. 

[OUTFXD]

Pushed the pin back in, gnarled up the edges so the pin wont push out easy.  Plan on going back and doing a proper fix.

 

Drove to town and back.   It fixed the fuel cut out.  but I still have to run at like 15-20% choke for the engine to run smooth and it idles way to high. 

 

So... it works but I still need to pull the carb back out.

 

Thank you all for input and advice! 

 

I think just going with a long Grade 5 bolt and thread locking a nut in place (or just two nuts tightened together)  is going to be the winning formula.

[JohnS48plm]

I used an allen screw with a diameter the same as the pin and a shoulder that was the length of the pin. I put a locknut on the the screw , I think it was 10-32. I got this at a local hardware.

[keithb7]

It's unfortunate to see so many people break down with this same issue, after replacing their new fuel pump. The people who manufacture or sell these pumps seem to not care. This has been going on for years. Maybe the folks who own the largest tow truck company in North America also own the fuel pump manufacturing plant. Lol.

 

There are so called Mopar supplier "specialists" selling these crappy pumps. One wonders if they cannot get a message back to the factory to do something about this. They got it right in 1930. Why cant someone get it right 100 years later?

 

Like so many others, this happened to me 2 years ago as well. I quickly ran the lines to a  6V pump, while on the side of the road. Then drove my car home. Then I took the pump off and hit the pin ends with JB weld. Multiple applications over 3 nights. It has been problem free since. I also permanently mounted my 6V electric pump. It serves me well also. Under a couple of occasions it has pushed through vapor lock. Also great for priming the carb when the car has sat unused for several weeks.

Edited September 16, 2022 by keithb7

[Sniper]

9 hours ago, keithb7 said:

They got it right in 1930. Why cant someone get it right 100 years later?

 

Not to get political, but times were different back then.  Depression era and people worked harder to keep their jobs.

 

Same issue with oil pumps too

[OUTFXD]

The lead from the carb to the vacuum advance was loose. Must have loosened it in prep for pulling the carb and forgot about it.  Tightened it up, fiddled with the Idle mixture screw a bit and she will Idle when warm without the choke now!

[kencombs]

17 hours ago, keithb7 said:

It's unfortunate to see so many people break down with this same issue, after replacing their new fuel pump. The people who manufacture or sell these pumps seem to not care. This has been going on for years. Maybe the folks who own the largest tow truck company in North America also own the fuel pump manufacturing plant. Lol.

 

There are so called Mopar supplier "specialists" selling these crappy pumps. One wonders if they cannot get a message back to the factory to do something about this. They got it right in 1930. Why cant someone get it right 100 years later?

 

Like so many others, this happened to me 2 years ago as well. I quickly ran the lines to a  6V pump, while on the side of the road. Then drove my car home. Then I took the pump off and hit the pin ends with JB weld. Multiple applications over 3 nights. It has been problem free since. I also permanently mounted my 6V electric pump. It serves me well also. Under a couple of occasions it has pushed through vapor lock. Also great for priming the carb when the car has sat unused for several weeks.

Biggest reason this continues IMHO, is lack of effective customer feedback.  Use a credit card, give the seller a chance to make it right then contact the card company for a chargeback.   That will prompt the seller to get with the maker.  But that may be really difficult due to the distance, especially if the seller is not the original purchaser but is buying from a distributor.

 

I don't do that, but I should.  Instead I use eBay for as many purchases as possible .  Them and/or Paypal have always taken care of any issues.

[OUTFXD]

So.... I think this is the new Starter issue.   Drove her to town.  Filled her up. Went to another store.  Went in and shopped, came out.  No fuel to the carb.  Pulled the fuel pump. The pin was in its regular place.  I tried the fuel pump and promptly shot myself in the chest with a cup of gasoline.

 

My next theory is the pick-up in the fuel tank is partially clogged.  Sadly I JUST filled up at near $5 a gallon. 

 

I inspected the fuel tank and only noticed four penetrations.  A drain bolt in the bottom.  The Filler neck in the side.  The fuel Gauge access on top. and a threaded fitting on the side leading to a hard line(Presumably the fuel line to the carb).  

Iis there a way to access the fuel pick up without draining and removing the tank?

[Los_Control]

Pretty tough to deal with these old tanks as they are. They will drop rust inside & clog the outlet for the fuel ... We are talking a fuel tank 70 years old ... it needs replaced.

 

You can deal with it anyway you want .... I would replace it.

 

 

[Sam Buchanan]

49 minutes ago, OUTFXD said:

My next theory is the pick-up in the fuel tank is partially clogged.  Sadly I JUST filled up at near $5 a gallon. 

 

I inspected the fuel tank and only noticed four penetrations.  A drain bolt in the bottom.  The Filler neck in the side.  The fuel Gauge access on top. and a threaded fitting on the side leading to a hard line(Presumably the fuel line to the carb).  

Iis there a way to access the fuel pick up without draining and removing the tank?

 

I finally solved my fuel issues with a new tank, new sender, all new lines, filter and electric fuel pump. The system is now as reliable as a new car. 

 

I don't think there is any way to access the fuel pickup/filter in the old tank. Chunk it. My old tank had some sort of alien life form living in it.........   ?

Edited September 22, 2022 by Sam Buchanan

[Sniper]

Short of cutting the tank open there really is no access to the pickup.  I suppose you could get one of those cheap fiber optic cameras you hook up to a laptop to inspect it.

[LazyK]

blowing compressed air back into the tank from the fuel line, might clear any obstruction from the in tank filter.  then drain the tank via the drain plug. 

[OUTFXD]

18 hours ago, Sniper said:

Short of cutting the tank open there really is no access to the pickup.  I suppose you could get one of those cheap fiber optic cameras you hook up to a laptop to inspect it.

 

15 hours ago, LazyK said:

blowing compressed air back into the tank from the fuel line, might clear any obstruction from the in tank filter.  then drain the tank via the drain plug. 

Both great ideas!  Luckily I have a cheap bore scope that attaches to my phone that till give me an idea of the state of the interior of the tank. We have a good compressor system to blow out the line to clear it.

 

Worst case scenario, it will buy me some time until I can afford to replace the tank.

[Sam Buchanan]

I tried to nickel and dime my P15 fuel system until I just ripped it all out and started fresh. I could force enough air back through the pickup to make bubbles but it was too constricted for the mechanical pump to maintain prime. A 74 year old fuel tank is going to be a problem. ?

 

In regard to your inquiry about quality of new pumps, the new replacement I got from Rock Auto leaked, never could get it to stop. I returned it and then decided I could do better than that. That's when the entire old system bow to stern came out, full-time electric pump now. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Sam Buchanan

[OUTFXD]

Time for the stupid question of the day.  Glass bowl up or glass bowl down?