Shot three coats of primer surfacer on the 48 DeSoto today. Now how do I choose a top coat?

[MarcDeSoto]

Now I need to sand the primer surfacer down.  Should I put another primer on after the primer surfacer?  Now on to selecting a top coat.  Is there a place that has to know how to mix colors like the original?  I looked at the modern colors in a thick book at the paint store and none of them are even close to original colors!  Paint chips are easy to get, but if I have the paint store try to match a paint chip, the chip might not be accurate to the real color.  Does anyone have any experience with a shop matching a color from a paint chip, or is there a better method.  I don't have a piece of the car to take in for matching as I'm changing the color.  

[Sam Buchanan]

Marc, I am assuming you are using the same paint brand/system for the primer and color finish. That is very important as modern paints (they are actually very sophisticated "finishes") are designed to cross-link with each component. I suggest you get the technical docs for the system you are using and follow the procedures detailed.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Sam Buchanan

[Dan Hiebert]

Modern paints are not formulated the same as the original paints on our cars, that's why many places' formulas have difficulty making exact matches if you give them a paint code, but they can get close enough that "experts" can't tell it's not an exact original color.  The MoPar paint chip sheets I have are made with the same paints as applied to the cars, so a shop (body or paint) that runs one of those scanners on it will get as close a match as possible with modern paints.

 

Ditto what Sam B wrote about paint systems.  Different primer and finish systems will work, but best results tend to be obtained with one system.  Kinda depends on how much you want to spend, as you've probably already discovered, none of them are cheap.

 

I've gotten original finish colors fairly recently from both Advance Auto and NAPA based on color codes, no issues.  I had problems with PPG getting a good match for 1948 Fortress Gray, but that was 30 years ago, things may have improved.

 

 

[allbizz49]

I always use sealer before paint. I prime and block multiple times before I paint a car too. Once you have the car ready, masked up ,wiped down and tacked, shoot a nice wet coat of sealer. Let it flash for an hour or so then start shooting your color. I finish my surfacer with 320 dry, sometimes 400 wet. Either way I always seal. It makes for a nice barrier between the surfacer and color. Also, the sealer I use can be mixed in various colors to help your color cover quicker. Any good paint shop should be able to mix up the color you need. Good luck.

[desoto1939]

Marc: You state that you are changing the color of the car. So in reality it does not matter if the paint does not match the paint code onthe cowl tag.  It is your car and you can chnage the color to what ever you want. Most AACA judges donot know the corect colors for our cars. They are judging the quality of the paint job but remmember that if the car di dnot come with a metal flake paint originally then you go to a metal flake paint then you will get major deductions.

 

Basicaly the paint color must be of a color that would have been available back when the car was produced.

 

Again you must match up the primer paint company witht he same manufactures of the top coat and follow their specific instructions.  Also cars of you vintage did not use two stage paint only single stage to be correct an enamel was available.

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[MarcDeSoto]

Dan, you got original color paint from NAPA just by giving paint codes?  Does NAPA make paint? And I thought they could not use the old paint codes because they don't make Dulux enamel anymore.  I used a primer surface made by High Tech paints.  It came with a activator and has an acetone solvent base.  I used the proper reducer to thin it as my gun was spitting without the reducer.  

[andyd]

Marc, as others have said use the same brand of primer/undercoat & colour paint  and you should be fine........you mention that the primer you used is acetone based so I'm curious whether it was actually acrylic lacquer based?..........I used acrylic lacquer on my Dodge when I painted it back in 1978, when the r  vinyl roof was removed about 15yrs ago a mates son repainted the roof in 2 pack, he is a professional paint & body guy so that was what he wanted to use, colour wise he matched the 2007 paint well with the 1978 paint so I'm happy..........when I painted the Dodge in 1978 I mixed up 4litres of paint into 12 litres of sprayable paint, shot 4 straight coats onto the car then started mixing some clear into the mix and shot another 2-3 coats of paint/clear mix then did the reverse, ie, mixed paint into the clear at about 70/30% clear to paint  and then 2 coats of very thin clear and finally a last coat of virtually straight thinners with a small about of clear in it............then wet sanded the whole car by hand with 1200 grit wet&dry paper then used machine cutting compound by hand then polished out.............apart from all the stone chips & crazing it looks o/k ......lol..........I'm no expert but I decided that I could spend a few thousand getting someone to paint the car and really learn nothing or spend a lot less on a compressor, spray guns, paint,thinners,paper etc and whilst it may not be as perfect as the professional it will have taught me something..........and the reason my mates son did the roof is that after a couple of right shoulder operations I didn't trust myself to be able to hold the spraygun above the roof like I needed to.......lol......old age catching up........lol...........heres a pic with the yinyl top, with the top off, note the writing "vinyl top to go here" that I wrote in 1974 & the car as it is now & has been since 1978 with the Mahogany Metallic  paint ............regards from Oz    

[allbizz49]

You don't have to stick with one paint manufacturer. It's good policy, especially if you are doing it for a living. Napa paint is Sherwin Williams renamed Martin Senour. It's ok, I'd say mid level. I sprayed it for a few years in a collision shop I worked at. I use mostly House of Color and Matrix on the cars and motorcycles that I paint. Talk to the guys that you're buying paint from. Those guys are pretty knowledgeable most of the time. What are you looking to get in the end? Stock looking or super shiny? Most good paints anymore don't use much, if any reducer especially in California. Mixing paint and clear is something guys did way back. With the high solids clear we have now, you get your base coat color where you like and clear it. No messing around and it's pretty simple.

Edited April 24, 2022 by allbizz49

[andyd]

Yeh.........lol..........I'm from way back..........lol.....all good.........lol............personally I will never use any 2 pack or urethane paint as its cyanide based but as mentioned I'm no expert & acrylic lacquer has worked fine for me over the years but if you are comfortable using these new fangled paints  then go for it.......why, I've even heard that there are telephones now that you can carry in your pocket................things change.......lol...............andyd 

[allbizz49]

Wasn't trying to offend you AndyD. Just pointing out that paint technology has changed a lot and is constantly changing especially in California. I started painting cars professionally in 1994 and since then it has been a challenge keeping up with the changes. As far as isocyanates go, yeah, it's some bad stuff. Most any good shops provide fresh air systems for us although I have shot 1,000s of cars while wearing regular respirators. 

[MarcDeSoto]

I'm in California.  No Acrylic lacquer here anymore.  You have to use water base or acetone based.  Apparrently acetone doesn't hurt the atmosphere so California says it's OK.  The High Teck primer surfacer I used does have isocyanates in it so my helper and I used filtered respirators and left the garage doors open.  I put a half cup of reducer in a one quart can to make it come out of my gun without spitting.  When my helper was spraying, he noticed that the fumes went right out of the garage and floated down the street in a misty haze.  He was concerned that the overspray would get primer on cars in the street, but I don't think that's possible.  So he closed the garage doors so that they were only two feet open.  I'm trying to use a paint that is similar to the original Dulux oven baked enamel.  I'm going to go with an original blue, green, or beige color.  I'm going to spray a sealer on it before I spray the top coats.  It sure is a lot of work.  If I remember correctly, you have to hand wet sand the primer down to about 400 grit before shooting the top coats.  

Edited April 25, 2022 by MarcDeSoto

[MarcDeSoto]

[Dan Hiebert]

12 hours ago, MarcDeSoto said:

Dan, you got original color paint from NAPA just by giving paint codes?  Does NAPA make paint? And I thought they could not use the old paint codes because they don't make Dulux enamel anymore.  I used a primer surface made by High Tech paints.  It came with a activator and has an acetone solvent base.  I used the proper reducer to thin it as my gun was spitting without the reducer.  

 

[Dan Hiebert]

12 hours ago, MarcDeSoto said:

Dan, you got original color paint from NAPA just by giving paint codes?  Does NAPA make paint? And I thought they could not use the old paint codes because they don't make Dulux enamel anymore.  I used a primer surface made by High Tech paints.  It came with a activator and has an acetone solvent base.  I used the proper reducer to thin it as my gun was spitting without the reducer.  

Yes, but I wouldn't call it "original" color.  These were for a 1957 and a 1963 color.  The code told them what color it was supposed to be and what tints of their paint to use to make as close a match as possible.  They told me from the onset that it probably wouldn't be an exact match, but I was repainting the entire cars, so they didn't need to be.  Not a "NAPA" paint system, but I don't remember the brand right now.  I don't think every NAPA store does the paint thing.  One thing to keep in mind, too, many "modern" colors are really the same as old ones, their names just evolve over time to make the consumer think it's something new.

[Eneto-55]

Shooting clear over the primer reveals a lot of small imperfections that will show up in the top coat if not fixed at that stage.

re: matching original colors:  The old-timers doing that before all of the computer programs could probably do a better job of it that than the modern computerized methods.  (Just my opinion, based on how well they matched mine, back in 80 or 81.)

[Sam Buchanan]

6 hours ago, MarcDeSoto said:

 When my helper was spraying, he noticed that the fumes went right out of the garage and floated down the street in a misty haze.  He was concerned that the overspray would get primer on cars in the street, but I don't think that's possible.

 

It is very possible. If you are in a neighborhood you must control the overspray otherwise you might end up paying for paint repair on several vehicles. 

 

Not to mention the way you will be accused of jeopardizing the health of the chillrun......yes....you could become an infamous guy in the hood....  ?

Edited April 25, 2022 by Sam Buchanan

[Plymouthy Adams]

when last I bought paint from Napa their go to line was Martin Senour.  Finally shot that paint, only it was 40+ years later....it performed flawlessly might I add...

[Dan Hiebert]

19 minutes ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

when last I bought paint from Napa their go to line was Martin Senour.  Finally shot that paint, only it was 40+ years later....it performed flawlessly might I add...

Yep, just went out and found some left over reducer, 'tis indeed Martin Senour, I used their "Cross/FIRE" system.

[Tired iron]

I always use a sealer, both so the paint takes consistently and I notice I end up using less paint. And you'll probably find it helpful to find an automotive paint shop and buy your products from them. You'll be ensured of compatibility and you can pester them with lots of questions about how to do things!

[Adam H P15 D30]

I usually finish the surfacer with 320, then apply 2 wet coats of sealer.  Finish the sealer with 400 wet trying not to go through, then paint.  If I go through, I'll spot seal is and shoot.  I am not a pro by any means but this has worked for over 20 years.

For color, I prefer a catalyzed enamel base with a urethane clear.  The enamel will not give that "plastic" look urethane does, more of an "enamel" job of yesteryear.  The clear is for UV protection.  Cut and buff, shiny but not urethane shiny.  

I have an inflatable booth that works very well.  Pictures of the panel I painted with that system before cut and buff.

 

[chris 48 P15]

this company online tcpglobal.com has all kinds of modern day paints and info also will mix specific colors 

[belvedere]

When I wanted some rattle cans made up to touch up my engine compartment, I called ABS and gave them the original paint code from 1957. I wasn’t real confident, but to my surprise, it turned out to match well.

[andyd]

Allbiz.......no offence taken nor implied...........I've a thick head & skin and its all good.........have enjoyed this thread as its good to learn some new things........thanks.......andyd 

[desoto1939]

I had my car painted in 1996 with a single state paint called Grumenmacher.  It was never block or wet sanded as foa all that I know.  I clay bar the car twice a year and then use a good quality paste was caranuba on the car.  I am currently using the Turtle was ceramic spray on the car and that seems to give me great results with very little effort to apply and buff out.

 

The best advice is that single stage enamel is fine for our older cars and here is the proof. Like any car you just have to maintain the paint every year with washing with a good car quality car wash product and not use regular kitchen dish soap. Regular dish soap is a grease cutter and removes all of the wax and polish.  I use a generic spped spray as my lubricant with the claybar and use microfiber towels to wipe and buf out the detailer spray.  Also removal all tags from the microfiber towels  and drying cloths and also the washing mit.  Also get your seld the egg crate insert for you car wash bucket. This prevents the accumulation for dirt and grit that was taken off the car when washing it and then settles to the bottom of the bucket.  The egg crate also sit onthe bottom of the bucket but has  square holes to let the grit go to the bottom and then your wash mit does not pickup the dirt particles when if goes to the bottom of the bucket.

 

Spending money on quality products is the key to a prolonged paint surface and also keeping a cover over the car when parked in your garage.

 

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[harmony]

Hopefully you won't run into this problem Marc. But if you do perhaps there is a knowledgeable guy following this thread that will have some advise.

I recently had my roof painted ( about a month ago) with single stage Urethane. ( no clear coat)  and there are 3 significant runs or drips in the paint.  I'm wondering if I can simply wet sand them out?  Starting at perhaps 320 and working my way up. I have sanding grits going up gradually to 12000 grit.