Before I screw up my Crank Hub

[Bryan]

5 hours ago, Andydodge said:

I'm not trying to have a "holier than thou" attitude but if you have the pulley.....reattach it to the crank hub with 2 of the bolts( 5/16 or 3/8th), wedge a block of wood between the pulley and frame and use the 3foot breaker bar you have on the socket and the centre bolt is undone, then unbolt the pulley from the hub and use the puller on the hub to remove it...........it may even be a little loose after the centre bolt is undone..............this centre bolt is about 1" in diameter with a fine UNF thread..........I would NOT expect the centre bolt to break...............andyd      

Thanks..was planning to do exactly that. Since I had the block in the cylinder I didn't want to put full force on my breaker bar.  I'll use the damper and put a wedge in it.  Maybe I should bring my floor jack over. ?  Didn't take it that way.  

[Bryan]

8 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

I could not go without an air compressor....While I could raise a car once on the lift.....I need air to unlock it for lowering.   Even before this model lift, all my body tools and such are air powered.

Well, I just don't want to buy a compressor and impact set for a few bolts.  Then the thing would set for a couple of years and lock up.  Might consider one later but now is not the time. With Christmas, a $150 cat vet bill and other things just something I don't want to do at this point.  Glad you can afford a lift.  Maybe I'll hit the lottery and pay someone to run power to my garage, so I can install a lighting and outlet system, then a fancy lift, a compressor, a separate painting booth, a TIG welder, etc.  Then after I finish everything within a year, it'll set dormant as a fancy parking area.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I know well what you are saying, this stuff does not arrive to the average person overnight and is often the accumulation of years of gathering items.  My shop has been in the making for many many years and continues to evolve in tools, fixtures and often the size of the shop grows a bit also.   Your time will come if this is truly what you want to do in your spare time.  Not everyone shares the same love for shop space and tools for certain, there are many hobbies man can occupy his time with.   Just keep in mind the local parts houses have the loaner tool program that will allow you to do some specialty tasks, don't have to buy everything, especially that once in a blue moon used item.

[Sniper]

I have a portable generator, got to use it last February when we got 7" of snow and no power for 4 days.  Something like that can also be used to provide power to a shop that has no electricity.  Just an option to consider.

[Los_Control]

2 hours ago, Bryan said:

Might consider one later but now is not the time. With Christmas, a $150 cat vet bill and other things just something I don't want to do at this point. 

Absolutely the right attitude to have. These old cars are suppose to be a hobby and give pleasure working on them.

There is no race to finish them in a certain time line.

I also .have to be careful where & how I spend my money, retired living on a fixed income .... todays inflation everything cost more etc...

 

I like @Andydodge idea with installing the pulley etc ... is a safe way to go.

 

Your way can work. Seems like a lot of force going on to the 1 piston, the wrist pin, rod. A chance to either bend a rod or maybe crack or break the piston?

Or it just may break free and no harm done .... just there is a chance to damage. Maybe it does not matter depending on your plans with the engine.

 

@Plymouthy Adams is also correct, is a pretty hefty bolt. If you do break it, we might pass out cigars & give you some atta boys's

At that point, should be pretty simple to extract the remainder of the bolt. I would guess someone here would have a spare bolt to sell you or know where to get one.

 

Myself in this situation, I think I would go with installing the pulley, wedge the board as tight as I could get it. Investigate to see if anyway to wedge a bar or wood into the flywheel to help stop it from turning. Anything helps.

Then I would take your 3' breaker bar and a 5' pipe to slide over it for a handle, twist that bolt out and get on with my day.

 

So getting the bolt off really is not the problem. Just taking care on how you stop the engine from rotating is. While stopping 1 piston is bad. Maybe if you did the same with at least 2 pistons or maybe 4, then spread the load out. Not saying it is right! Just better then 1 piston taking all the abuse.

Not sure what the torque spec is on the bolt .... not that much, just needs the initial shock to get it to start moving. Thats what the impact gun does is shock it.

[Bryan]

1 hour ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

I know well what you are saying, this stuff does not arrive to the average person overnight and is often the accumulation of years of gathering items.  My shop has been in the making for many many years and continues to evolve in tools, fixtures and often the size of the shop grows a bit also.   Your time will come if this is truly what you want to do in your spare time.  Not everyone shares the same love for shop space and tools for certain, there are many hobbies man can occupy his time with.   Just keep in mind the local parts houses have the loaner tool program that will allow you to do some specialty tasks, don't have to buy everything, especially that once in a blue moon used item.

One of these years I'll get to it.  We've only been here since July 2014. Was overseas in Israel, Korea and Germany since 1984. Once here it was adding 2 sheds, a cat house with pen, a garage, then metal roofing on the house and a new front porch. an 800ft driveway with crusher run & drainage, a new heat pump system, a high end wood stove.   I have a 150ft roll of underground cable for the garage..just time & money getting to it.

[Bryan]

2 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

I like @Andydodge idea with installing the pulley etc ... is a safe way to go.

 

Your way can work. Seems like a lot of force going on to the 1 piston, the wrist pin, rod. A chance to either bend a rod or maybe crack or break the piston?

Or it just may break free and no harm done .... just there is a chance to damage. Maybe it does not matter depending on your plans with the engine.

 

@Plymouthy Adams is also correct, is a pretty hefty bolt. If you do break it, we might pass out cigars & give you some atta boys's

At that point, should be pretty simple to extract the remainder of the bolt. I would guess someone here would have a spare bolt to sell you or know where to get one.

 

Myself in this situation, I think I would go with installing the pulley, wedge the board as tight as I could get it. Investigate to see if anyway to wedge a bar or wood into the flywheel to help stop it from turning. Anything helps.

Then I would take your 3' breaker bar and a 5' pipe to slide over it for a handle, twist that bolt out and get on with my day.

 

Agree on that. Thats why I didn't pull with all I had on the breaker bar. Was flexing it a little.  I'm going to go out now that it has warmed up and try the damper/wedge method.  When I get this crazy engine apart I'll check the 3rd rod and the 5th cylinder tappet.  Anything I've put undue force on I'll check and maybe replace.

[Bryan]

Not to go into politics, but the value of the dollar is dependent on the stability of the government and faith of others in the US. For a retiree the worst thing is inflation. I've been pulling from savings to pay for parts, with the idea that if you know you are going to do something necessary in the next 5-10 years, why not pay for it now instead of with devalued currency later.  If it were just from monthly income I couldn't do all this.  Already got bit with C2C floor panels for 58 Dodge, waiting too long for when they were $80 and now they are $100.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Bryan
Forgot panels.

[Plymouthy Adams]

its a juggling act at times....many times just because I see no sense in some of the current prices and marketing trends.  I wish not to step on toes here but I cannot see how a person could continue a practice of tobacco consumption and alcohol given their rising costs.  And to drink at a bar...wow, you know that dips into the coffers...of course it is part of the social pattern many enjoy...so as I said, not stepping on toes, just pointing out that instead of that, I buy tools and such which to many is a total waste of time and resources...  

[Los_Control]

Juggling act for sure. I guess we call that life. I have learned patience being retired on disability .... money is tight but for me time is also hard to manage.

When I needed to do the rear drums on my truck, I bought the tool from ebay and waited for it to be delivered, I just buy tools I need as I go.

Am happy I have maybe 70% of parts I need I bought a couple years ago. Paint, gas tank, water pump, radiator, wiring etc...

Same with my wife car when I blew up the motor, bought the motor 1 month, the engine crane the next month, this month oil gaskets, heater hose etc...  A good mechanic could have it installed & running in a day or 2, will be a few weeks for me yet.

 

After I got the engine out, the leafs finally dropped off the trees so been putting away the garden, raking the leafs up. I built a compost area to recycle kitchen scraps, garden waste leafs etc .... Now I need to build a gate to hold the leafs in.

I bought a stack of 2x6 awhile back for another project. I put that on hold til lumber prices come back down.

Instead I scrounged some pipe I had in the scrap pile and welded together a gate. Paint drying on it now and hang it today.

Then yesterday the wash machine went on the fritz. Will cost some money for me to buy parts to repair it .... Thats ok it wont break the bank, is the time I will need to invest into it to trouble shoot & repair it. I just have to be careful where & how I spend my money.

All I really want to do is work on my pilothouse .... just not enough time right now.

 

About the air compressor, as a carpenter I always have my nail guns & a porter cable pancake compressor. That compressor is pretty cheap but works well.

Runs off of 110.  You can fill it up then carry it with you to air up tires, it will run a impact gun well enough to change a set of wheels on your car .... will cycle on & off several times but will do the job. I bought my impact gun used for $30 at a thrift store.

I have even used it to run a hvlp paint gun. You will run out of air and have to wait for it to catch up. But it will do ok for a fender or small areas. Just one of those tools that once you have it you will be glad you do. Do not have to break the bank to get there.

 

[Dodgeb4ya]

Most likely a large threaded fine thread puller will be needed to remove the hub.

Lube your threaded puller shaft and end point of it too.

 

 

[Bryan]

Still at it since I last posted. Won't budge.  Tried to use the long bolts I bought at Lowes with the socket, damper wasn't stable enough. With the short bolts I had to grind off the bolt heads on one side of each bolt to get the socket to fit.  The engine is not stable enough with the "floating power" mount that is rotten.  Engine keeps twisting and moving up, causing any wedge I use to pop out and turn with the damper.  There's no good place to clamp the engine down.  If I take the motor out and put it on a stand, there will be no place to brace the flat side of the damper to stop the crank from turning.  Had enough of that for today.  Imagine trying to turn it on a motor stand. Probably would turn it over. Considering sticking a block of wood in each cylinder and trying it.

[Bryan]

Found it had the original 2 vane water pump.  The gasket was covering about a third of the water distribution tube.  About the only thing that went right was I got the water pump off without snapping the bolts. Rather clean inside, was using almost pure antifreeze to store it.

[61spit]

Could you borrow an impact wrench and hook it up to a portable air tank? Maybe that would be enough to get the bolt jarred loose. Maybe a mobile tire repair truck that could swing by and knock it loose for a few dollars.

[bamfordsgarage]

It’s been years since I had the starter out of my D25, but could you carefully jam something in that hole to catch the ring gear and keep the flywheel from turning?

 

Given the large radius of the flywheel, stress on the ring gear teeth would (should?) be moderate. 

[oldodge41]

Could you pull that broken front motor mount isolator out of there and run a couple bolts thru the mounts with nuts to hold it in place to stop the engine from twisting when you apply torque to your breaker bar?

Edited December 16, 2021 by oldodge41

[Los_Control]

I think you want to address the bolt issue while the engine is still installed.

 My thoughts would be to use the wooden block as shown in the photo above, a 3 pound sledge hammer and drive it into place. Then a come along to strap the motor down. Either to the front axle or to the frame, will also pull the pulley into the wood wedge making it more effective.

 

I do not have a come along, I imagine if I used some chain to go over the motor & around the front axle. Then a long bolt 6"-8" As I tighten a nut onto the bolt it would pull the chain tight, & lock down the motor to hold it.

 

If the motor moves any while trying to loosen the bolt you lose the shock value ....

 

[Bryan]

11 minutes ago, oldodge41 said:

Could you pull that broken front motor mount isolator out of there and run a couple bolts thru the mounts with nuts to hold it in place to stop the engine from twisting when you apply torque to your breaker bar?

I started looking at that but had enough for today. Had taken the nuts loose, but you'd have to pry the motor up a few inches to clear the mount.

[Bryan]

5 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

I think you want to address the bolt issue while the engine is still installed.

 My thoughts would be to use the wooden block as shown in the photo above, a 3 pound sledge hammer and drive it into place. Then a come along to strap the motor down. Either to the front axle or to the frame, will also pull the pulley into the wood wedge making it more effective.

 

I do not have a come along, I imagine if I used some chain to go over the motor & around the front axle. Then a long bolt 6"-8" As I tighten a nut onto the bolt it would pull the chain tight, & lock down the motor to hold it.

 

If the motor moves any while trying to loosen the bolt you lose the shock value ....

 

I have a come along and rachet straps. Might try it another day.  Yeah, imagine trying to turn it in a motor stand...that's why I was messing with it now.  I'd probably flip the stand over.

[kencombs]

I think I’d first try removing the rubber mount and clamping the steel parts together with vise grips or similar.  Should be rigid 

[westaus29]

Impact gun is the cleanest solution if you can beg/borrow one. It does not rely on the crank being wedged and works AMAZINGLY well. Otherwise, wedge the flywheel ring gear teeth with some soft steel and get a solid breaker bar, not one with a uni joint in it, apply force and start tapping. I use an old cheapie torque wrench that I have welded up solid, and slide a pipe over the handle for extra leverage.

[Bryan]

Yeah, I know what you mean by uni-joint. Thing flexes and has movement of about 6" on end of bar.

[Andydodge]

I would also suggest removing the short extension between the socket and bar, attach the bar directly onto the socket, one less thing to move..........also tap the wood wedge into the frame/pulley a little bit more........whisper sweet nothings to the bolt..........or discuss its parentage.......I sometimes do both at once............lol............also a wood wedge on the flywheel from the bottom on the drivers side between the flywheel and bellhousing after removing the bellhousing inspection cover on the bottom.........you'll beat it.............we are intelligent life forms......its only an inanimate piece of shaped steel.........teach it who is the BOSS.........lol.............gently.........lol............andyd  

[Tired iron]

When you said that you tried heating it are you using a oxy/acetylene torch or just a plumbers propane torch? I ask can use I find that an oxy torch that can get a bolt truly red hot quickly before everything else heats up is what works best for me with very stubborn bolts. Course that's my last resort!

[Bryan]

1 hour ago, Tired iron said:

When you said that you tried heating it are you using a oxy/acetylene torch or just a plumbers propane torch? I ask can use I find that an oxy torch that can get a bolt truly red hot quickly before everything else heats up is what works best for me with very stubborn bolts. Course that's my last resort!

Map gas torch...it looks gray now.