Looking for AMMCO 1750 or DIY tool

[49WINDS]

Hello all, I've been browsing this site for weeks in trying to find a solution to getting the brakes set up correctly on my '49 Chrysler Windsor and am still stuck. I have all new shoes, wheel cylinders, & master cylinder from Andy Bernbaum, have bled them several times, tried adjusting the minor adjusters, and still have a very low pedal grab with little stopping power. I did find that if I pump the pedal twice then the brakes seem to grab better, which made me wonder if there was still air in the system, but when I pulled a drum off to check how the shoes were wearing I could tell they're definitely not adjusted right. They look to only make contact on the heel, to which confused me more because if I followed the instructions in the https://p15-d24.com/page/p15d24/tech/brakes.html/ article to adjust the position of the shoes, that would just increase the heel contact even further.

 

I'm hoping that someone here either has an adjusting tool they would be willing to loan me, or even instructions on how to build my own would be helpful as well. I'm good at repairing cars but not very good at fabricating so I'm lost at trying to make something work.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

[P15-D24]

The brake article tells you how to do it with a dial indicator and bearing holder. 

 

Also adding your location would be helpful.

[Sam Buchanan]

Here ya go, notes on how I built my brake tool:

 

https://p15-d24.com/topic/50182-brake-adjustment-tool-updated/?tab=comments#comment-532931

 

[49WINDS]

Sorry I forgot to mention that I'm in Denver, Colorado. It seems like most members I've seen in this forum are on the Eastern side of the states.

 

Thanks for the link to your article Sam! That looks like a fairly easy and inexpensive route to go. I don't have a dial indicator as I've seen some people use, and while I don't want to have to spend a lot of money to get the brakes set correctly, I suppose anything is cheaper than what I've seen the 1750 selling for on eBay right now.

[keithb7]

I sent you a message. Check you in-box here on this forum. Thx. 
Keith

[Sniper]

Not all of us are on the eastern side of the states.  You are actually closer to where I bought my 51, Dalhart, TX, than I am, San Angelo, TX.  But I ain't driving up to Aurora to help out, lol.

[49WINDS]

Haha ok I won't wait for your help then, but don't expect me to drive down there if you ever need help either!! ?

 

Actually a family member works in a 4x4 fabricating shop near me and he's going to try and replicate the one from Sam's earlier post. I'll be sure to post pics of me trying to use it.

[DJK]

Here is the brake tool I fabricated using the 3/4-16 nut. The one on the left is my first attempt, right side is finished product.

[neil and ethan]

Well I built your tool yesterday,  ,had the nut in the bolt bin. Sure helps but there still is play, it helps for ballpark , but 6 thou.?  But a lot closer than I was before.

  Have all China new master and slaves, 

Driver front grabs and still have air somewhere,  ,  will check for free play on master next.  Eventually I will get the air out,     researching a power bleeder.

    Thanks for the tips . Learning slowly 

But learning

 

[MarcDeSoto]

Did you replace your brake lines?  If not, the lines could have a tiny rust hole where air could suck in.  That can mess up your fuel pump too.  

[Sam Buchanan]

1 hour ago, neil and ethan said:

Well I built your tool yesterday,  ,had the nut in the bolt bin. Sure helps but there still is play, it helps for ballpark , but 6 thou.?  But a lot closer than I was before.

  

 

A new nut will give you much better results.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Sam Buchanan

[50mech]

As it happens, 320 Emory cloth is about 6 thou. I used spray adhesive to stick a piece to the inside of the drum. Install it in space between the shoes then rotate. Make adjustments until I have even contact from one end of the shoe to the other. Peel it off the drum and done.

I also cut slots in the ends of the major bolts so I could adjust from behind with the drum on.

[Sam Buchanan]

10 minutes ago, 50mech said:

As it happens, 320 Emory cloth is about 6 thou. I used spray adhesive to stick a piece to the inside of the drum. Install it in space between the shoes then rotate. Make adjustments until I have even contact from one end of the shoe to the other. Peel it off the drum and done.

 

 

That is pretty clever. ?

[49WINDS]

Well I got my tool about a week ago and put it to use as quick as I could. The only slight problem I had with it was since the nut was thinner than the ones used to hold the drums on it in turn would wobble a little bit and not give an accurate reading. I was still able to make it work by trying to put constant pressure on it and adjust the shoes the best I could. I didn't use any feeler gauges as I know my shoes aren't perfectly arced to the drums, but just using this tool to adjust the major adjusters definitely made a difference. The pedal height is much better now and I can confidently go drive it around to bed the shoes in without fear of not being able to stop. As they've started to wear in a little more I can even get them to begin to lock the tires up on heavy stops so that's quite an improvement!

 

The only (small) issue I have now is I think the drums may be warped as when I'm almost to a complete stop I can feel them grab kind of pulse-like. I don't feel a vibration in the pedal however, and it stops very straight as well so I'm not sure if I'll bother taking everything back apart to get the drums machined or not. I actually did take them to a shop before I did all this work and the employee who looked at them with me said they looked in such good shape that he wouldn't bother turning them if it were him. They did look near new as there were no ridges or scoring on any of them, so am I being too picky and still expecting them to behave as smoothly as 4 wheel discs on most modern vehicles?

[Sniper]

Looks are deceiving, did he measure the runout with a dial indicator? 

[49WINDS]

Lol no he didn't, he just picked it up out of the box I brought them in and looked it over in the parking lot.

[Sam Buchanan]

39 minutes ago, 49WINDS said:

Lol no he didn't, he just picked it up out of the box I brought them in and looked it over in the parking lot.

 

Then he doesn't know squat.....unless he has eyeballs calibrated to a few thousandths.......  ?

 

If the drums are out-of-round you won't be able to get a complete adjustment of the brakes (pedal won't be as high as it could be). I drove my P15 for six months with rear drums that needed turning and after they were turned and the brakes readjusted the pedal was 1.5" higher. Definitely worth the effort.

[Sam Buchanan]

2 hours ago, 49WINDS said:

Well I got my tool about a week ago and put it to use as quick as I could. The only slight problem I had with it was since the nut was thinner than the ones used to hold the drums on it in turn would wobble a little bit and not give an accurate reading.

 

 

Is somebody marketing my tool?? I haven't gotten a royalty payment yet..........

 

The cheap copy you got with the defective nut is what you get with an unauthorized clone..........   ?

[squirebill]

If you were to hacksaw a slot about half way through the nut, as if you were going to make two thin lock nuts...then spread the slot a bit with a tapered tool like a common screw driver or chisel,  it will remove the slop from the nut when you thread it on the spindle.  

[squirebill]

Further to my last;  Only has to be spread a few thousanths ,  not very much.  If it won't thread on with only slight resistance it is spread too far.  Tap on the nut to close up the gap. Regards.

[Plymouthy Adams]

with the nut and welded shaft with an adjustable 90 degree stop plate....one can expect play here for sure....it is not a smooth close fit tolerance such as the tool provides.  At best these home made tool are better than nothing but expect issues as above.  I would have to also suggest you rock the tool in and out while reading a gap in center to find an average.  Also with this tool you cannot with certainty set the gap between the shoe and drum a the specified distance per the book as you need to be able to read the drum and transfer this to the tool with the .006 difference.... BUT, again, it is better than many other methods of guessing.  To what degree you can live with as a margin of error is a call only you can make and while a good pedal will most always result from this home version, wear patterns could be a bit off.  If you can a drum inside caliper and an outside caliper and very good means to measure....you can get real close with these and get some assurance of a decent wear pattern over the life of the shoe.

[hansen]

I have a lathe....this is how I did it.

[JBNeal]

Maybe that vibration is a loose wheel bearing...

[Sniper]

19 hours ago, JBNeal said:

Maybe that vibration is a loose wheel bearing...

 

 

Speaking of which, unless my google fu has completely deserted me I cannot find a wheel bearing adjustment procedure in the manual I have or anywhere on this site.

 

What is the official procedure?  I haven't done them on a front drum cars since probably the 80's and that was on my Dart, I do know there was a different adjust drums vs discs on that car.  But the later Mopars use a bit different retention setup compare to the earlier ones.

 

This is basically how the Dart got done

 

 

[JBNeal]

That is generally how I would tighten wheel bearings...I had several seasoned mechanics tell me that a torque wrench is great but after awhile you can get a feel for when you're "within specs"...so they had me snug up the axle nut with one hand while rotating the drum with the other hand; then put a wrench on the nut to tighten the rest of the way SLOWLY while rotating the drum with two fingers of the other hand; once the drum feels difficult to rotate with two fingers, then back the axle nut off so that the cotter pin slips into its spindle hole.  Verify wheel bearing tightness by installing wheel and tire and shake it up'n'down then side-to-side then give it a good spin in both sides to listen for any scraping growling grinding or squeaking...if ya do have a torque wrench and the factory specs, do it all by hand then dbl check your work with the torque wrench to see if'n ya nailed it