DLK Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 I wrote earlier about my brake issue last Friday. I called the brake shop and they have two hours labor into trying to remove that left rear drum with no luck. They are concerned they may have to break the drum to get it off. As if that isn't bad enough the four front wheel cylinders with less than 1500 miles are leaking. I spent $1300 on a brake job in 2011 and at the time the brake shop told me the wheel cylinders I bought were Chinese knockoffs and junk. Clearly they were right and they were right in saying I should have re-sleeved the NOS ones in the car. Any thoughts other than putting heat on that drum to get it off? They have fried it and tried to pound it off. I suppose it is so grooved it won't come over the shoes. Are used drums that hard to come by? I hope my Wayfarer uses the same rear drums as Plymouth's. They don't want to break the drum without my "blessing". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Does that shop have the correct hub/drum puller? I wouldn't be too surprised if the shop was new that it would not have that tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desoto1939 Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 what type of puller are they using to get the drum off? Are they using a 3 legged puller or a five hole puller that can pull equally on all five lugs? I have both of these and I have found that by useing the puller that pulls with all 5 lug nut or bolts is a better unit since you get equal pulling versus only getting a 3 point pull and then two are pulling against one effect.. Also you state that they have been working on the brakes for t hrs labor. I would have a hard time saying they are just dedicated for two hrs pounding onthe drum puller. They have twos of the car on a jack stand or lift but they are not just standing therejust working on your brakes. They are also doing other work on other cars. I would also have to agree about getting new cylinders today. If you can get real NOS cylinders then get those. I have several listing for brake components if you need this information. If you can not get true NOS then I would go and get them resleeved since they wouls still have the original body that can be cut and the sleeve inserted. Just my 25 cents. Rich HArtung Desoto1939@aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 I too question the proper puller. I've taken a couple apart where the shoes were into the drum. The drum still came off it just bent the shoes. I believe you're dodge may have studs while a Plymouth drum has lug bolts. While working on the front brake and equipment in NE can sleeve them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLK Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Rich I thought I was dealing with an honest shop. They did a brake job on my 53 Desoto in 2008 and I was pleased and they have the same management. I was NOT happy with the shop that did the prior job in 2011 on this car (came highly recommended) which is why I did not go back to them. After work I will stop and talk to them about what puller they are using. 1. On the re-sleeving question can I have those cheap knockoffs re-sleeved or do I need NOS cylinders? 2. How hard is it to find a used brake drum for my car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casper50 Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 I have 2 11" drums off my 47 dodge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertKB Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 If they have been using a puller, hopefully they have not been beating on the end of it directly onto the axle. That can cause serious problems. They have to hit the handle of the puller, usually in a clockwise direction. Not sure why they are having trouble getting the drum off. I have pulled dozens of rear drums using a decent three legged puller and never had an issue with a drum that could not be removed. Some drums were on cars that had sat on the ground for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinsailor Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Shoes are certainly not the issue. Even if the shoes were stuck, they would have enough movement that it would be obvious. The drum would come loose from the axle, but only wiggle a bit and not slide completely off. I can't imagine one not coming loose with some heat on it. If you can go by and get a very clear description of what they are doing, maybe even a video of them trying it, someone here will be able to figure out what is amiss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desoto1939 Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Rich I thought I was dealing with an honest shop. They did a brake job on my 53 Desoto in 2008 and I was pleased and they have the same management. I was NOT happy with the shop that did the prior job in 2011 on this car (came highly recommended) which is why I did not go back to them. After work I will stop and talk to them about what puller they are using. 1. On the re-sleeving question can I have those cheap knockoffs re-sleeved or do I need NOS cylinders? 2. How hard is it to find a used brake drum for my car? Let me look up in My Wagner and EIS brake master catalog. I might be able to get you the proper wheel cylinder numbers for this car. Then you could look for NOS cylinders and this way you would know that you would have some quality parts. Since the are NOS if you find them they might need a slight honing to remove any slight contamination that has formed over the years. Send me you home email and I will try to find this info for you. My hollander book does not go up to your year so I can not answer your question on the interchange but maybe someone elase can. Rich HArtung Desoto1939@aol.com cell 484-431-8157 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captden29 Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 tod, I had the same problem with cheap wheel cylinders.as far as the drum, they all come off. I have had luck with just moving the three leg puller to different lugs [ after hitting it with great force ].just when you think you cannot hit it anymore without breaking something, hit it once more and that is the one that will do it.i have never used tremendous heat or banged hard on the end of the axle.it is a tapered fit and it has to come off.perhaps your mechanic can go on this site for all the info needed to get the drum off. used rims are not difficult to get. someone here already has some. the shop seems to be losing interest instead of taking this as a challenge and learning experience. they are in business to make money, so they see this from a different time frame. I have experienced the drum from hell myself, but in the end a bigger hammer and a few more whacks ALWAYS does the job.also, you must have the right puller. capt den Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLK Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 tod, I had the same problem with cheap wheel cylinders.as far as the drum, they all come off. I have had luck with just moving the three leg puller to different lugs [ after hitting it with great force ].just when you think you cannot hit it anymore without breaking something, hit it once more and that is the one that will do it.i have never used tremendous heat or banged hard on the end of the axle.it is a tapered fit and it has to come off.perhaps your mechanic can go on this site for all the info needed to get the drum off. used rims are not difficult to get. someone here already has some. the shop seems to be losing interest instead of taking this as a challenge and learning experience. they are in business to make money, so they see this from a different time frame. I have experienced the drum from hell myself, but in the end a bigger hammer and a few more whacks ALWAYS does the job.also, you must have the right puller. capt den I fairness to them they are trying to avoid a broken drum and having my Dodge tie up a hoist until I find a replacement. I will be interested to see what they are using for a puller. Thanks for all the suggestions - I haven't pulled a rear MOPAR drum for probably 45 years (then it was on my 59 Saratoga). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shel_ny Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 I take it that they are experienced enough to loosen the nut on the axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLK Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 I wouldn't assume anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P15-D24 Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Tell them to check this site in the Resources -> Tech -> Brakes section 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLK Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Thank you for suggesting the Resources-Tech section. With October here I probably should just park the car and spend the winter making an informed decision about disk conversion and get all the new parts for a spring brake overhaul. Unfortunately this is Minnesota and it will not be in a heated garage. A couple people suggested I loosen the rear axle nuts 1/4" and drive the car in circles to break the drums loose. I guess I have nothing to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andydodge Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 There are various types of pullers that can be used, generally with these tapered axles, the bigger the better........this is the type I use, its never found a brake drum it couldn't remove...........good luck with this.....andyd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Reddie Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 I like this type with the handle that can be struck with a hammer to tighten it. This one has pulled some stubborn drums successfully. Good luck to you. John R 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamfordsgarage Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 ...A couple people suggested I loosen the rear axle nuts 1/4" and drive the car in circles to break the drums loose. I guess I have nothing to lose... This is a common procedure with Model T Ford rear hubs, which like your car are mounted to tapered and keyed axle shafts. Diversion --> there are pullers for Model T hubs as well, but often the hub/axle bond is very strong due to age and corrosion, and the Model T pullers only latch onto very fine hubcap threads — not to sturdy log nuts or bolts like your Mopar. Anyway, my emphatic advice is do not back off the axle nut by anything like 1/4". One turn is more than enough and put the cotter pin back in. Once the hub breaks loose it will ride out to meet the nut and you're set. If you back the nut off too far, the hub will wobble around on the axles by the time you get home and may damage the taper and/or key. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) while this may not be the answer you looking for but throwing good maoney after bad is something that would be weighing heavy on my mind at this time....for the moeny you may want to consider going with disc conversion in the front and upgrading the axle at the rear and if not the axle then at minimum the backing plates and modern (well. mid 60's Mopar) self centering self adjusting brakes.. Edited September 30, 2014 by Plymouthy Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathbound Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 I too question the proper puller. I've taken a couple apart where the shoes were into the drum. The drum still came off it just bent the shoes. I believe you're dodge may have studs while a Plymouth drum has lug bolts. While working on the front brake and equipment in NE can sleeve them. I think you were referring to this place in Minneapolis, MN:http://www.brakeplace.com/. For the dkopesky....I used them to re-sleeve my rear wheel cylinders a couple years ago....$75 each for stainless steel with a stepped bore & took about a week or so from the time I shipped them to the time I received them. In the end, I have my original Made in USA wheel cylinders that with never pit again, for me or any future owner. Hopefully you kept your original wheel cylinders when they were replaced with the re-pop wheel cylinders. If so, they can be re-sleeved, if not, maybe a forum member has 1 or more original used ones they may part with. Also, the correct puller is key. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobandy Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 If the drum is destroyed in the process, there are still a few around in the junk yards. Hope they don't destroy yours. I know of two chryslers about an hour from me (one is a 49 and the other is a 48 coupe). Another is a 48 Dodge 4 dr sedan about 35 minutes away. They should have tools to remove them... I know that's not close to you but they are still around in the yards. not the big yards... small country yards... Thanks for the pics of the pullers... I need one of those... Bobandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 I think you were referring to this place in Minneapolis, MN:http://www.brakeplace.com/. For the dkopesky....I used them to re-sleeve my rear wheel cylinders a couple years ago....$75 each for stainless steel with a stepped bore & took about a week or so from the time I shipped them to the time I received them. In the end, I have my original Made in USA wheel cylinders that with never pit again, for me or any future owner. Hopefully you kept your original wheel cylinders when they were replaced with the re-pop wheel cylinders. If so, they can be re-sleeved, if not, maybe a forum member has 1 or more original used ones they may part with. Also, the correct puller is key. Good luck. Yup thats the place. Its local for me and Dave. Nice shop and great guys to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ194950 Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 I wrote earlier about my brake issue last Friday. I called the brake shop and they have two hours labor into trying to remove that left rear drum with no luck. They are concerned they may have to break the drum to get it off. As if that isn't bad enough the four front wheel cylinders with less than 1500 miles are leaking. I spent $1300 on a brake job in 2011 and at the time the brake shop told me the wheel cylinders I bought were Chinese knockoffs and junk. Clearly they were right and they were right in saying I should have re-sleeved the NOS ones in the car. Any thoughts other than putting heat on that drum to get it off? They have fried it and tried to pound it off. I suppose it is so grooved it won't come over the shoes. Are used drums that hard to come by? I hope my Wayfarer uses the same rear drums as Plymouth's. They don't want to break the drum without my "blessing". My Hollander interchange say that the Rears of 49-52 Wayfarer only fit, sorry no Plymouths etc. No reasons given, sorry! Not impossible to find, just not everywhere until you don't need one. I've had one rear drum that took a Heavy duty 3 leg puller several days of tighten, loosen,beating. finally some heat on the hub above the key-way with and oxy/acetylene torch area left tight overnight, loosened next day, moved the bolts pulling and a Big hammer--- Finally! Best of luck, will come off! DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 the Wayfarer is Dodge..the Wayfarer should also be 10 inch drum same as Plymouth as it shares the smaller Plymouth chassis..but being the DODGE line, it may well be the very difference is only the fact that studs are used in the drums over that of bolts in the Plymnouth... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ194950 Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Doubt most would care if if had stubs instead of bolts. Suppose the left/right threads still apply? Would be good info to find out! Like I said no notes on this app.per interchange book. Some do have notations indicating exchange-ability and changes required if any etc. Just none in this case. Could open more possible replacements, big time! DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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