What would Pilot House Owners do?

[TrampSteer]

OK, the next step on a journey... (thanks Paul)

 

I purchased from an honest type of individual what he considered a "daily Driver". Now that it is here, we have had a chance to rack it and take a look around. We were looking at brakes initially with an eye toward converting to dual-chamber. Then some things caught our eye.

 

Nothing about the last four feet of the frame made sense. The more I looked, the crookeder it got. The more we found, the more dangerous the condition of the vehicle became. I've brought in a professional mechanic (he raised the roof on how it is unsafe and not drivable), two retired mechanics who just laughed (thanks guys), and a professional frame straightener ($cha-ching$) who basically steered me away from even trying to fix this mess directly.

 

I am now at the point where I think I have a few choices.

1. Return the truck for purchase price as it should not be considered a daily driver
2. Straighten what is there ( frame guys says that is pretty hopeless)
3. Buy another '53 frame, splice it onto the back at the cross member just in front of the axle.(cut, splice,align,weld as recommended by the frame specialist)
4. Sue for the cost, plus shipping, plus legal fees and let him have the truck back (not in my nature)
5. Drive it. ( No, I'm not really advocating this)

Honestly, I had put a lot of $$ in contingency funding for this  build but it was really for paint, interior, rear end changes, disk brakes. I could have it fixed but then I would be where I thought I was three weeks ago with a running vehicle. And I have not started the engine.

 

I open it up to your learned opinions. All comments welcome. You can't hurt my feelings, I'm still laughing at myself. That's healthy right?

 

Mike

 

http://p15-d24.com/gallery/album/232-as-delivered/

 

 

[Don Coatney]

I know what I would do but the choice is yours.

[Young Ed]

How about option 6-try another frame guy? I would also ask if the price would be lower with the bed removed. Thats a fairly easy task and would give lots of access to the area. I had the front horns of my plymouth straightned after a crash by a frame shop. I think it cost me $400.

[Merle Coggins]

It may be hard to go back after the seller if the deal is done, but I know I'd be awfully PO'd by the poor representation of it's condition.

It appears that someone did a botch job of lowering the truck by relocating the axle over the springs. What was done up front? Is the workmanship the same on that end?    I would certainly be suspect of any work done now. I'd be going over everything thoroughly.

I have to wonder why the cross members were cut out and smaller ones added in. It seems that they purposely weakened the frame by doing that.

I agree with Ed. If you remove the bed you'll have better access to everything. Get the frame rails straightened out and get some proper cross members put back in to keep it straight, and you may be able to salvage it.

 

Merle

[pflaming]

I have an acquaintance near me who has several B series trucks and parts there of. If you wish I'll ask what he has, maybe we can cut out a good frame end and you can replace the bad section.

 

Maybe we can even keep the springs so all you have to do is remove the bed (six bolts) and the axle (12 bolts) and you would have an easy swap.  MacArthur cut trucks in half so he could load them on airplanes fly them to the next island, weld them back and etc., as he fought his way back to the Phillipines and on to Japan. 

Edited March 11, 2014 by pflaming

[48Dodger]

I had to think about this for a moment.

 

1st, I would be mad and then go on the attack based strictly on princple. But the legal cost for a good ol' fight to get your money back might take the wind out of anyone's sails. 

 

But having built these truck I can say from experience, frames are out there and aren't expensive. If you are going with a daily driver, you'd replace a lot of things you weren't planning on replacing after 100 miles anyway. Breaking these trucks down from one frame to another is work, but not impossiple. Having a frame to "restore" first has its benefits. First off, its cheaper than a lawyer. If the rest of the truck is present and accounted for, a frame might be an option. If the rest of the truck is suspect....might have to take the seller to task.   

 

Seeing the picture I noticed right away the original rear crossmember is missing, a square tubing in its place, and the frame is twisted and bent. This frame is done in my book. No need to splice...getting the whole frame is easier.

 

You're in California....I'm up the road. I have four 48-50 parts trucks....one frame bare and ready to go. There are two wrecking yards up the valley that would have frames, not to mention other California forum members with frames. Just figger out the rest of the truck and see if its good enough to transfer over. 1950-53 frames are the same, 48-49 have different steering mount holes and crossmember design (but could be made to work). 

 

48D

[Larry Leibhart]

48 Dodger

I would have guessed that the B1 and B2 frames were the same. But your saying the B2 and B3 frames are the same. Is this correct?

Larry

[52b3b Joe]

Like others are saying, I would just buy a new frame and swap everything over. It would be good for you to put all new brake and fuel lines on and change anything to how you want it. You will get to know the truck very well. If the body and everything is nice already then it really wouldn't be that big of a job to sway it all over. 

[ggdad1951]

frame swap is a great idea,  a bit more work than buy and drive, but not so bad if everything is in working order.

[48Dodger]

I'm speaking of 1/2 ton trucks .

 

The B-1 (48-49) and B-2 (1950) frames are not the same.

 

48-49 have bolts for the cab mount brakets...not rivets. They have a few other bolts too.

50-53 have rivets.

48-49 have a different mounting holes for the steering than 50-53 

48-49 have a different steering brace braket and mounting bolts for the steering box than 50-53 

The rest is minor. The demensions are the same. shock mounts the same. shackle mounts the same.

In some cases the casting numbers for suspension parts are different, but can interchange.

 

If you have a 53 frame...and want to use a 48-49....you will need to drill mounting holes for the steering box, plus swap the bracket that runs from the engine cross member and frame. Why? Because the steering box on the 48-49 has an extension (making it longer) and has a weaker designed bracket.  

 

What some may not know, is that the steering collum and steering box are one unit. You could go through the trouble of separating them, but the point is the 50-53 is a better design. Do you go out and do a swap cuz you have a 48 truck? No. But as far as Dodge was concerned (in 48), it was important to make a change. 

 

48D

[41/53dodges]

There is one other option, I'm not a particular fan of it but this truck is almost a poster child for it. Some people like to swap the entire chassis out for i think Dodge Dakota? that would give you fuel injection, 4x4, etc. Just something to consider, and not a whole lot more work. I know if I knew what I do now after building and testing everything I would do things a bit different.

Good luck, no matter what keep er' on the road!

-Josh

[Larry Leibhart]

48 Dodger

Does that mean that the B1B 1949X models have a different frame than the earlier models? I assume they must have changed the frames for these also. I will quit hijacking this thread now. Sorry TrampSteer.

Larry

[Merle Coggins]

I think the real dilemma that Mike faces here is that he purchased a truck ready to drive, not anticipating to have to do major work on it. If he were to do a complete frame swap it wouldn't be much different than a complete frame off resto, labor wise. Maybe the best option would be to get a donor frame and just graft on the back half. Pull the bed off and cut off the damaged rear area, then weld in the good frame, with proper gusseting. At that time I would also advise correcting the butcher job on the spring under conversion of the rear axle. 

 

Of course this is still assuming that the front of the frame hasn't been butchered too bad.

 

Merle

[wayfarer]

I purchased from an honest type of individual what he considered a "daily Driver". Now that it is here, we have had a chance to rack it and take a look around. We were looking at brakes initially with an eye toward converting to dual-chamber. Then some things caught our eye.

 

First question for you, did you get some kind of hot-deal? or did you pay top price?

Next, did the other guy actually use this as a daily driver?

 

If you paid a fair price for a daily driven truck then have a conversation with the seller, just don't be surprised if he blames damage on the shipper. If he is a standup guy he will offer something but he likely won't want the truck back. Depending on how much energy you want to throw at the process there is always small-claims court but you will have to prove fraud/misrepresentation and that goes back to letters, emails and other paper trail. Recollection of a phone call just won't cut it...yeah, been there and have the t-shirt.

 

If you get a replacement frame then you have the opportunity to do a top notch job of cleaning/painting/changing whatever and then know that you have a solid foundation for whatever comes next. In fact, this would be an excellent opportunity to put a first generation Dak front suspension under it for a truly great daily driver.

[Todd B]

I would START with calling the seller, like wayfarer said.  I am old school and believe you should give the seller a chance to make it right.  If the seller chooses not to be an honest person then move forward with frame replacement and chalk it up as the school of hard knocks. 

 

Sorry for your loss, hopefully this guy turns out to be honest or just did not know about the issues. 

 

 

Todd

[B1B Keven]

Get my money back!

[MBF]

48Dodger is right on with the steering box, bracketing, and mounting differences. I think I'd initiate a conversation with the seller and see where that goes.   If you have the ability for a Plan B, (the most likely scenario) I'd be looking to find a known good frame and swap your sheet metal and drivetrain to something that you know is good and safe because you can build it as you go.  There's a ton of cobjob work there that you can see-who knows what else is wrong.  Bare minimum I'd sabre rattle a little and show him what you're talking about and how he misrepresented it and hope he would at least buy the replacement frame.  I wouldn't start lawyering up.  You'd be better off putting the money towards some beer and a frame-that way you'll have a safe vehicle to drive with maybe a little less aggravation down the road.  Good luck

Edited March 11, 2014 by MBFowler

[ggdad1951]

yah, I looked thru the photos and wow, some "interesting" mods made to that frame and rear suspension.  As someone stated this all looks like it was from the "lowering" job done on this truck....almost like it was done on one of those reality shows, get it done quick and look good but who cares how sturdy it is.

[Jeff Balazs]

Mike;

From what I can see I would be very concerned about other aspects of this truck. And you say you have not even run the engine?

What if the rest of the build quality is similar to the rear frame? The seller may be honest....but that doesn't necessarily translate to him having very good mechanical judgement. I would think that based on what you have shown us you need to do a very comprehensive assessment of the rest of the truck before you even think about keeping it.

I don't know what you paid for it but if you have to go through much of what has already been done it can really add up. Changing the frame ......isn't going to be just changing the frame. It can go on and on. At the very least I would say the seller owes you some money.

 

Jeff

[TrampSteer]

Thanks you guys. A wealth of knowledge and experience again. I am very much in you debt.

 

I'm going to take the next week or so to look into all these variations and make a decision. I'll post back 'cuz I know you're just dying to know what happens next!

 

Mike (Still like the truck)

[JBNeal]

get it insured for the purchase price, drive it to the bad side of town & leave the keys in it 

[pflaming]

Bad Joke, thanks Don. 

Edited March 12, 2014 by pflaming

[Don Coatney]

PP did you ever read how many adolescent children are arrested for crimes they committed because they posted there activities on faceplant or any other open forum?

[Young Ed]

PP did you ever read how many adolescent children are arrested for crimes they committed because they posted there activities on faceplant or any other open forum?

 

I've heard of another newer version too. People are stealing phones and tablets that are setup to automatically upload photos to the cloud. Then the new "owner" is taking photos which the real owner can access and use to track their device.

[ggdad1951]

I've heard of another newer version too. People are stealing phones and tablets that are setup to automatically upload photos to the cloud. Then the new "owner" is taking photos which the real owner can access and use to track their device.

and game trail cameras....