So...what would you do?

[Jeff Balazs]

Hi Guy's

I have been thinking about how best to proceed on the engine for a while now. I guess I really want to get this project moving.

Today at lunch I decided to pull the head and take a look. After reading many post's I figured I would just get started and make a little bit of progress.

Well........... it was off in 20 minutes. Was a lot easier than I expected. And no broken bolts. It shifted on the first tap of a rubber mallet.

So basically it looks pretty good. It has 40 over pistons. The cylinder walls are not scored or rusty. There is some evidence of light pitting but it is clean and not rusty at all. There is some carbon build-up....but not more than you would expect. The tops of the exhaust valves are all tan in color. There is no sign of head gasket failure or water in the cylinders. The deck is clean and the mill marks look pretty fresh on the head.

I am trying to figure out how far to take this and would appreciate some input from Y'all. Well Y'all ??? except for Hank () who really hurt my feeling's with that Kenny G remark.

How far should I take this ?

Thanks in advance.

Jeff

[Plymouthy Adams]

maybe you can share with us as to why you thought pulling the head was necessay..I may have missed this in an earlier thread..

[Dodgeb4ya]

I'd put it back together and fire it up with new oil.

[52b3b Joe]

Have you ever ran the engine? Also did you do a compression test on the engine before you pulled the head? If you haven't, I would try to get bore gauge and see if the bores are still round and to see if they are still within specs. If they check out ok, I'd probably run it. It wouldn't hurt to pull the pan and pull the caps and mains to see the crank's condition. It all depends on what you want to do. I thought my engine looked good until I checked the bores and found they were tapered badly. You can't really know until you measure it. I just got done rebuilding my model A engine too. When I bought it, it had been sitting for who knows how long. It started right up with new ignition parts and ran great. I pulled the head on it, and the bores were .015 over, the pistons were just floating in there and it had one bent rod! lol but it sure ran good! I would have never guessed it was that bad!

[NiftyFifty]

Make sure those valves are moving nice and chech the seats... If its been sitting they could be quite corroded and cause issue.

It's always tough to get into something k

[NiftyFifty]

Make sure those valves are moving nice and chech the seats... If its been sitting they could be quite corroded and cause issue.

It's always tough to get into something knowing it might just create a money monster, but better that then cruising the highway and having an engine implode like mine did.

[Jeff Balazs]

Guy;s

I should probably clarify question this a bit.

1) This truck will be my only road vehicle and my daily driver.

It will be asked to work like it was originally intended for. And I also want to be able to take some trips with it.

2) I don't know what the real history is on the truck. I bought it from the previous owners Daughter a few years after he had passed away. All I do know is that it sat for several years. I will add that I think the head came off too easy.....like it wasn't torqued down and the manifold bolts seem loose as well. Like perhaps the last owner had it apart and just slapped it back together. It did have clean oil & decent compression of around 120# but that is really all I know about it.

3) Since I have it all torn apart it seems like this is the best time to deal with any necessary heavy work. I am not made of money...... but since intend to drive this truck until I drop...... I want to get it as right as possible.

Jeff

[Dan Babb]

I would pull the motor and have it redone by a machine shop and maybe have the head milled for a little extra power. Since it will be a daily driver, it would be easier to do it now instrad of after you are on the road and really need it to work hard for you.

[JBNeal]

when these trucks were new, not much was thought about how they would perform in an Interstate Highway System society 6+ decades after they rolled off of the assembly line. A valid point has been made about checking everything since you don't know the history of the truck...ya don't necessarily have to replace everything, just make sure the engine specifications are within tolerance. Completely go through the brakes & fuel system as corrosion from moisture can cause failure. Check the bearings in the transmission, differential, and wheel hubs & axles as spalling can cause failure. Plan on replacing every seal and gasket as they have probably dried up and gone brittle. Replace the original wiring harness and battery cables; they may look okie dokie, but the insulation is prone to breaking down, allowing corrosion on the strands of the conductors, increasing internal resistance and putting a load on the 6V system that it was not designed for. And make the 180F thermostat and PCV system upgrades and see about getting the compression ratio up to 8:1 so the motor will run cleaner & with more power.

[Don Coatney]

You may as well go ahead and strip it down to the frame to check everything.

But if it were me I would put the head back on and drive it to get a feel of what it may or may not need. With 120 pounds of compression across the board I would think the engine is sound. Transmissions and differentials rarely fail as long as they have lubrication. I would pull the wheels and inspect the brakes. If you find no fluid leaks and the shoes are servicable then flush and replace the brake fluid and drive it.

[NiftyFifty]

Daily Driver = massive inspection

I would start with the engine, but it's the least of your worries. As others have stated..get into that wiring and make sure it's decent...even good looking wires can cause issues and you don't want your head or tail lights flickering out at 10:00 at night.

Brakes #2...if I was going to drive this every day I would do the front disc conversion to it..makes it a way more useable vehicle, and really not that much money..just some time and a little know how. Also do all the brake lines and rear wheel cyls....thats a cheap step to make sure your not a grease spot..or smash into someone else..

Back to engine...if you have plans to daily drive but don't want to pull the motor, then pll the pan and go through the bearings, and honestly..while your at it..pop the pistons out..it's only 12 more nuts and you'll know then if you have any cracked or broken rings that could come apart once you start actually running it and cause major downtime and damage... if it looks ok...Id still throw a cheap set of rings in and be done after a quick cyl hone....and yes you can get away with some larger tolerances on these old blocks, as the rings are pretty stiff from what I've found...

If your like most of us, you get a new toy and you just want it on the road and going..but if you rush it, thats when bad things happen..I never went through my first motor..I did everything but...got about 4 rides out of it and it put a rod through everything...only salvageable part was the head and water pump really....

[HanksB3B]

I am trying to figure out how far to take this and would appreciate some input from Y'all. Well Y'all ??? except for Hank () who really hurt my feeling's with that Kenny G remark.

How far should I take this ? Thanks in advance.Jeff

Jeff,

You have taken it too far already. Buy the complete Felpro Gasket Kit. Study the Truck and parts Manual know where every gasket goes. Source the best suppliers for bearings, springs, valves, valve seats, pistons etc.

Then, El Guapo, bring it to Ricardo and get to working on your frame, build a new wiring harness with turn signals, restore your components parts, rebuild the carburator and on and on there's a lot of small stuff to do.

These engines are pretty much bullet proof but because they are getting older good parts (especially NOS parts) as you know are hard to find. Knowing the sources ahead of time really helps because once oversizes are known it's just an online order or phone call and Fedex away.

JMHO,

Hank

Edited March 28, 2012 by HanksB3B

[Jeff Balazs]

Guy's

It is going down to a bare frame. I will replace the wiring, hard lines etc...

I have had the radiator re-cored and the fuel tank repaired, lined and coated.

I am sending out the starter,generator and wiper motor for re-manufacture.

I have replaced all the brakes with all new parts. Will look again at front disc's but it looked like there might be issues with the master cylinder arrangement.

It has a T 372 engine which I think is a slightly later block. I have been trying to find out particulars on this engine but have struck out so far. I want to start gathering the parts for a rebuild and that is the reason for this post.

Jeff

[B1B Keven]

Guy's

It is going down to a bare frame. I will replace the wiring, hard lines etc...

I have had the radiator re-cored and the fuel tank repaired, lined and coated.

I am sending out the starter,generator and wiper motor for re-manufacture.

I have replaced all the brakes with all new parts. Will look again at front disc's but it looked like there might be issues with the master cylinder arrangement.

It has a T 372 engine which I think is a slightly later block. I have been trying to find out particulars on this engine but have struck out so far. I want to start gathering the parts for a rebuild and that is the reason for this post.

Jeff

Jeff, if you're going to rebuild the engine, why not look for a series correct block?

[Jeff Balazs]

Keven;

Well I am not sure what benefit that might have? At least with this one I am fairly certain it was not a victim of catastrophic failure in the past.

I think what I really need to find out is what the difference is between a T372 and the standard engine.....or if there is any? Maybe someone out there knows.

This may effect what parts I need to obtain.

Hank;

Too far? At least now I know a bit more about what I have....which can't be all bad considering I didn't break anything.

One question though....... Why was Englebert Humperdink helping Ricardo work on your truck?

Jeff

[Young Ed]

Jeff more than likely the only difference between the T372 and what you're truck came with originally is that #. You could possibly have a 230 vs a 218. Either way if you aren't concerned about the #s matching there's no reason to go hunting. If it were mine I'd put the head back on and drive it. Spend money on brakes wiring etc which I'm sure will need attention.

[Merle Coggins]

I'm with Ed and some of the others here. It sounds like the engine is in pretty good condition. You have very good compression which tells me the valves and rings are in good condition. If it has good oil pressure I'd reinsall the head, with a new gasket, and run it as is. If I was concerned with reliability, as it seems you are, I'd rebuild the fuel pump with a kit from Antique Auto Parts Cellar / Then and Now Automotive http://www.maritimedragracing.com/then_and_now_automotive.htm so that I know it has parts resistant to modern fuels. I might even do the same with the carburator. You could also do an electronic ignition swap from Langdon's Stovebolt for better ignition and less maintenance. http://stoveboltengineco.com/catalog/store/#ecwid:category=361515&mode=product&product=1222043 However, this would require an upgrade to 12 volts if you haven't done that already.

It sounds like you've got the brakes handled, although I also recommend a disc brake upgrade. You can do it without messing with the master cylinder. I haven't done anything to my m/c after adding discs and it works just fine. You won't have the added safety of a dual chamber m/c, but it'll work. You may want to add a 10lb residual valve for the rears, but again I haven't and don't have any issues to date.

And I'll pile on to the statements on the electrical system. Old wiring WILL fail once it gets used on a regular basis again. There are most likely many corroded connections which raise the amp draw, adding additional strain on the old wires. Make youself, or buy, a new harness and have piece of mind that you won't have electrical problems.

Merle

[Jeff Balazs]

Guys;

I hate electrical problems so I am definitely going to make a new harness for the truck. The mess that was in it has all been removed. I have done plenty of rewire jobs over the years and this one is pretty simple. My plan is to leave it 6V positive ground.

I am sending my Starter, Generator and wiper motor out to Northwest Starter to have them re-manufactured. And I am in the process of gathering a spare starter and generator which I will get rebuilt and keep as spares. I have already gone through the distributor. Wherever possible I will get new switches, etc. I am not a total purist so I will make upgrades to the wiring harness where I think it will improve reliability. I had Keven go through and recondition all my instruments....he sent me a photo last night and they look amazing.

As usual Merle you have given me something to think about in regards to the front brakes. The major reason I decided against them was the lack of a clear cut solution to the master cylinder arrangement. Since you got yours to work ...then there is hope for me. One thing though. I just went through a drawn out process of getting all new lug studs installed and the original wheels reamed to fit them. These are all 5/8" diameter lugs now so if I switch to discs on the front I need to accommodate this. Not sure if that creates a problem with this conversion?

I have already done the fuel pump rebuild you refer to....and the carb as well. I had the gas tank cleaned, spot repaired, lined and coated by the same fellow that re-cored the radiator. I also have a new sending unit from Roberts and will replace all the hard lines etc..

As for the engine..... part of me want's to put it all back together and fire her up. The more cautious part (funny how this part kicks in when you get past a certain age) has some concerns about this. I am inclined to think that there is probably nothing much wrong with this engine but ....the head bolts sure didn't seem to be all that tight. And now that the head is off there appears to still be an awful lot of rust etc....in the water passages.

I have to think about this some.

Jeff

[Merle Coggins]

So, get some new head bolts and reinstall the head. Don't forget to retorque after it gets up to temp. You could also pop out the casting plugs from the side of the block and flush out the block to ensure good coolant flow.

If you do a disc brake conversion you'll have 1/2" studs. I run them with my stock wheels made for the larger studs and find that the taper on the nuts still seats good enough to hold the rim. I wish they were larger, but it seems to work. Maybe you could drill out the new rotor to accept your new studs?

Merle

[NiftyFifty]

I would get away from the 6v system, it's slowly getting harder to find parts etc for these, not to mention the ease of use with 12v if you want to add accessories, you need a battery out in the road... Or just need a bulb.

Dump the generator and get a alternator, your starter will be fine... But you'll deffinately thank yourself later if you go to 12v

If this was just a stock resto.. Different story, but ease of daily use leans towards 12v

[Jeff Balazs]

Hi Guy's;

How can you tell if the head it at standard compression or has already been shaved? What is a safe amount to mill these to if you wanted to raise the compression a bit?

Jeff

[TodFitch]

I would get away from the 6v system, it's slowly getting harder to find parts etc for these, not to mention the ease of use with 12v if you want to add accessories, you need a battery out in the road... Or just need a bulb.

Dump the generator and get a alternator, your starter will be fine... But you'll deffinately thank yourself later if you go to 12v

If this was just a stock resto.. Different story, but ease of daily use leans towards 12v

My suburban local "better auto supply" has all the tune up parts for my 79 year old Plymouth. I give them a call in the morning when they open and the parts are available for pick up at lunch. Same thing for the 6v battery. I haven't bothered checking on the light bulbs as those are easy for me to stock. NAPA carries the generator cut-out, I can get generator and start brushes easily too. So I am wondering what 6v parts might keep me from using the car as a daily driver?

If you want/need 12v for modern accessories that is a good reason to convert. But I don't buy the "getting harder to find" argument.

[Jeff Balazs]

Guy's

A machinist buddy of mine and I just got through checking all the bores....

His verdict was that there is virtually no wear on any of the cylinders since it was bored to 40 over. No ridges or scoring either. Based on what he saw he thinks this engine has about 30-50 hours run time on it at the very most.

Sounds good to me.....think I will just finish cleaning things up and run it.

Jeff

[B1B Keven]

Guy's

A machinist buddy of mine and I just got through checking all the bores....

His verdict was that there is virtually no wear on any of the cylinders since it was bored to 40 over. No ridges or scoring either. Based on what he saw he thinks this engine has about 30-50 hours run time on it at the very most.

Sounds good to me.....think I will just finish cleaning things up and run it.

Jeff

Cool. Saved some money!

[Scruffy49]

I'm doing the same thing with the guaranteed runner 230 I picked up last year. Started taking it down this weekend since it has been sitting on a trailer and got wet. My truck's (circa 1963 swapped in) 1948 P15 218 was known good and snapped the rings in 3 cylinders when I fired it off in 2004. And that was with pouring ATF down each plug hole and letting it sit for several days. Hadn't been run for 10 years prior to that.

Swapping to an alternator even though I have a decent 12v generator. And a decent 6v generator.

EZ-wiring mini-fuse harness. Will be adding some convenience items like power windows (my stock regulators are broken). All new switches too. And brighter lights.

Daily driver work truck huh? I don't even trust my 69 D100 that far. And it has twice the brakes the PHs do. You really need to consider upgrading at least the fronts. For mine, the stock rear will be deep sixed in favor of something that can support discs. Of course, Memphis drivers make west coast drivers look sane...