Picking a paint store. Auto Color Library?

[Sam Buchanan]

9 hours ago, MarcDeSoto said:

My garage has 1 inch PVC piping going up to the ceiling then slanting upward across the garage and coming down in the middle and at the end with water drains on both down spouts.  Never had a problem with the pipes bursting or with water, but I keep the air press at 100 lbs.  

 

Marc, the concerns with using PVC for air is the failure mode.....hundreds of razor-sharp pieces of PVC being projected at horrendous speed. Also due to this being compressed air, it is a relatively long-term event as the pressure slowly bleeds down and can literally unzip the compromised pipe.

 

I had PVC air lines in my shop for awhile but after thinking about it I took them out. I now have a multi-outlet manifold at the compressor and run conventional air hoses to where ever they are needed. Safest hard line material is copper or iron. 

[Young Ed]

My compressor is in the middle of my shop and garage and I have iron pipe with a drop down all the way to the front and rear walls. I used short whips between the lengths to allow the compressor to vibrate and to go through the wall 

[vintage6t]

About 10 years ago, I ran a Rapidair system in my shop with quick connect outlets throughout. I'm very happy with it, it's a nice safe easy to install system.

[kencombs]

1 hour ago, Sam Buchanan said:

 

Marc, the concerns with using PVC for air is the failure mode.....hundreds of razor-sharp pieces of PVC being projected at horrendous speed. Also due to this being compressed air, it is a relatively long-term event as the pressure slowly bleeds down and can literally unzip the compromised pipe.

 

I had PVC air lines in my shop for awhile but after thinking about it I took them out. I now have a multi-outlet manifold at the compressor and run conventional air hoses to where ever they are needed. Safest hard line material is copper or iron. 

AMEN!    I’ve seen what happens.  Not pretty.  Usually caused by age and/or Uv rays accompanied by some minor damage or impact.      A short net search will yield hours of reading.   My shop now has all copper    Mostly recycled or contractor surplus(quiting business sales) so fairly cheap.  All 1/2 and 3/4”.

[Sam Buchanan]

21 minutes ago, kencombs said:

AMEN!    I’ve seen what happens.  Not pretty.  Usually caused by age and/or Uv rays accompanied by some minor damage or impact.      A short net search will yield hours of reading.   My shop now has all copper    Mostly recycled or contractor surplus(quiting business sales) so fairly cheap.  All 1/2 and 3/4”.

 

Excellent point that I neglected to make. Any impact or stress on the PVC (tripping over a hose connected to a PVC elbow) can precipitate total failure with extremely unfortunate results.

 

Here is my present setup--three connections at tank pressure and one regulated connection for paint gun, rivet gun, etc. A 25' hose will reach any part of my shop.

 

 

 

 

https://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools-compressors/air-compressor-accessories/fittings-valves-couplers/couplers.html

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Sam Buchanan

[MarcDeSoto]

Excellent, I never knew you could do it this way!  I sprayed some cardboard and some junk fenders today with my acrylic enamel.  I did not put the hardener in it.  The tech sheet said about 10 lbs. at the cap for HVLP.  I got a lot of orange peel so I increased the pressure a bit and still got orange peel.  I'm going to try again tomorrow with the hardener and maybe some reducer and more air pressure to see if the spray improves.  

 

[kencombs]

The ten pounds at the cap measurement requires a special setup to measure it.  I've never seen one but know they exist.   Most guns will specify a value at the gun inlet that will approximate the 10psi at the air cap.  I have a couple of those purple guns and I think the inlet is 30PSI.  But, it is important that that value is set with the trigger pulled and air flowing.

 

 I have a regulator neat the compressor set at 100 or so, and a small HF regulator on the gun set at about 30. 

[MarcDeSoto]

Ken I think you're right.  I saw on youtube that lack of enough air pressure is one major cause of orange peel. I set my pressure just before the gun at about 15 psi.  Now wonder I had orange peel!  Luckily, I am just spraying cardboard panels and junk fenders right now until I get it right.  The other way to avoid peel is to add some reducer.  

[OUTFXD]

Honestly.  buy a 50-100 dollar gun.

 

You can spend big bucks on a fancy gun,  but its kinda like buying a Farrarri.  If you are a good driver,  its a fast car.  To get the MOST out of the car you need to be a GREAT driver.  I beginning driver is gonna mess it up.

 

The pressure you want to run will depend on the type of gun you buy, and the type of paint your pushing through it.

 

A pressure pot system will want 50ish psi pressure

 

A Gravity feed will be best about 25 PSI

 

But I was an industrial painter

 

Here is a great auto-sentric channel with some great starter guides

 

 

Edited July 13, 2022 by OUTFXD

[TodFitch]

I haven’t tried to do any serious painting in years but one thing I noticed way back when was that the pressure at the gun end of the hose is lower than the pressure at the compressor end.

 

I made up a tool consisting of a male disconnect, female disconnect, a "T", and the most accurate pressure gauge I have. I insert that between the hose and the gun then while running air through the gun adjust the pressure. Once the regulator is set, I remove that pressure gauge tool. Remember that the first little bit of trigger on the spray gun will have higher than desired pressure until the flow stabilizes.

[kencombs]

7 hours ago, OUTFXD said:

Honestly.  buy a 50-100 dollar gun.

 

 

A better gun would be nice for sure.  OTOH, I have had several of the purple guns over the years.  Primer, equipment paint, small parts etc get painted with them, never cleaned well because solvent to do a really good job is more expensive than the gun.  so they get  a quick rinse and tossed stuff builds up then replaced when needed   but they all get an attached regulator that comes with the 'high dollar' version of that gun at HF.  $27.99 vs 16.99, less on sale.   It a real diaphragm type, not a simple cheater valve and a great value.

 

I even use one on my good gun, a Devilbiss GTI620G.

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

I like the HVLP but only IF it is a true HVLP spray gun....not all are quite up to the name and far from the task the true HVLP gun is designed.   Many are designed to look and act like the HVLP but the single one item of the HVLP is the regulated inlet against the stated outlet NGT 10PSI tip pressure.  The ability to achieve and maintain NGT 10 PSI at tip is the key to low bounce...the input to the gun on a very well made unit will have the max inlet pressure marked on the gun..this is the assurance you will be within the EPA guide line and also that your atomization will be complete and bounce the least.  The manner of your gun controls are set is important to achieve the flow at X stated NTE pressure, air flow, spray pattern (fan) and fluid combined with viscosity, tip size,  long before we move the gun for square, speed and distance from substrate.

 

I long back bought three NIB Finex spray guns...simplicity at its finest...quickest and easiest guns to set up and keep clean.  Set the inlet to 29PSI as per true HVLP gun is manufactured and never have had an issue...if it does not spray well at 29PSI...I assure you, your viscosity is the issue.  Probably the single biggest problems with most all paint application...pressure and viscosity....true HVLP eliminate the pressure issue altogether.

[kencombs]

2 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

  Probably the single biggest problems with most all paint application...pressure and viscosity....true HVLP eliminate the pressure issue altogether.

Add distance to that and you have the holy trinity of spray art.  Then add a good water vapor management system and the only thing left is speed and angle.   Operator error in maintaining those is my weakest point.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I don't spray as many cars as I used to....the MTBS (mean time between spraying) is getting greater as I get older and I am always nervous of the task as so so many things can go wrong even with all the things you prep for NOT TO HAPPEN....technique can be explained and can be taught as far as established practices....but each painter must develop this with practice....but founded on technique he has the better chance of success early in the game, they will often be a time you will not be able to visualize some segment of a job and must fall back on this.  Shadows as you age and your sight likely diminished with start of cataracts will be the main reason you will rely on your learned skill.  

[Bob Ritter]

Kirker has a low gloss Matte Urethane clear, it is premium quality acrylic urethane system dries to an even smooth matte finish. You can achieve that old school rat rod look while protecting your paint against weathering. I use Kirker clears and primers, it's good stuff. The matched colors I get here local.

Matte clear (fc325) (TP Tools 800/321/9260)(www.tptools.com)

Hope this helps, you can call me if I can be of help. Bob (818/768/3782)

[MarcDeSoto]

Painted some junk fenders and cardboard today.  Had some paint left in the cup, so I shot a thin coat on the cowl.  It came out OK.  It was painted with a standard gun with acrylic enamel with hardener and a little slow reducer since it was about 90.  

 

 

Edited July 14, 2022 by MarcDeSoto

[MarcDeSoto]

23 hours ago, OUTFXD said:

Honestly.  buy a 50-100 dollar gun.

Yes, I'm thinking of buying the gun that Brian showed in the video.  A Devilbiss GTI Pro LIte.  But what is the best way to buy one.  I don't want to buy on Ebay that comes from China where they say "will arrive somewhere between Aug. 10th and September 30!  

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/374144100768?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5337674829&toolid=10049&customid=895405191-16-151220020.1657774023

 

Boy they sure try to trick you into buying a fake Devilbiss gun with a name that the lazy buyer might miss!  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/224361006632?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20201210111314%26meid%3Df11ec02078f34bc0927de0e2ff99237e%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D374144100768%26itm%3D224361006632%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseWebMskuAspectsV202110NoVariantSeedWithRevOpt90NoRelevanceKnnRecallV1&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A224361006632f11ec02078f34bc0927de0e2ff99237e|enc%3AAQAHAAABMAoNKsJM3HOHkM0OuV9XKcsoXSMLk3wBBxTIYdgqgcSsJbD%2BWQW2%2Fi9%2FH9y8TZ%2F9TU3Es3oTKRolT9u5mF91RnSGjcRDdDpXI3GNi9QMheFP623sd2luaveQWWobQW5%2FETdaHfTClMvz1MrUDuLlniJs01OMKxjv2cBvKT45%2Fh%2FHp0bChRXq8fqLB7mk2cr0KFUr0xrF0ZyoiWoSy3H5Jl2PvISn4kUKUz0oDzV2VKRqQ9%2FEmUoOqSrV7IyYAHsDXdaaebOhwngDB4A6DuonRkAuymP6%2BqQ%2BiiKl0LRjGWqEOZtPu%2BCudxC5DU4p8BT5N1B34C1U7K67LkREdZbpuaWVEG1bysPJjRGgvOmW7WefeV1q3GvTXHgyrHzsSWpaBY3%2BcqWYIZ7otP1N%2Fp6lJXo%3D|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2047675

Edited July 14, 2022 by MarcDeSoto

[OUTFXD]

The Dewalt guns are good hobby level guns.

 

Gravity feed with a BIG paint cup

https://smile.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWMT70777-Gravity-Feed-Spray/dp/B00OK3TLH6/ref=sr_1_1?crid=30KXKOE09X0XU&keywords=dewalt+hvlp+spray&qid=1657778210&sprefix=dewalt+hvlp+spray%2Caps%2C174&sr=8-1

 

Gravity Feed with a small paint cup

https://smile.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWMT70778-Gravity-Touch-Up-Spray/dp/B00OK3TQJY/ref=sr_1_3?crid=30KXKOE09X0XU&keywords=dewalt+hvlp+spray&qid=1657778210&sprefix=dewalt+hvlp+spray%2Caps%2C174&sr=8-3

 

My personal set up.  Siphon feed.

https://smile.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWMT70779-Siphon-Spray-Gun/dp/B00OK3TQFS/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2NNIC76WW63K7&keywords=DWMT70779&qid=1657778427&sprefix=dwmt70779%2Caps%2C122&sr=8-2

+ pressure pot

https://smile.amazon.com/Astro-2PG8S-Quart-Pressure-Silver/dp/B000RH86N4/ref=sr_1_25?crid=1HC4VGY08ZA0Q&keywords=pressure+pot+paint+sprayer&qid=1657778631&sprefix=Pressure+pot%2Caps%2C144&sr=8-25

 

My set up is mainly one of familiarity.  It may not be the best setup for spraying cars,  But it is what I used for decades while hanging off Bridges and dams.

 

I also have a Harbor freight Purple $25 siphon feed gun for doing parts.

https://www.harborfreight.com/20-oz-hvlp-gravity-feed-air-spray-gun-with-regulator-62381.html?_br_psugg_q=hvlp

 

Once again,  I was an industrial painter where the idea was to get as much paint on a surface as thick as possible.   It doesnt really translate to applying a micron thick layer for a mirror finish.  But alot of the toys are the same and the overlapping spray techniques are the same.

Edited July 14, 2022 by OUTFXD

[OUTFXD]

1 hour ago, MarcDeSoto said:

Yes, I'm thinking of buying the gun that Brian showed in the video.  A Devilbiss GTI Pro LIte.  But what is the best way to buy one.

I think you best bet is to find an Auto specific paint shop and get them to order you one in.

 

[kencombs]

Source?   My technique is to settle on the exact make and model of whatever I want to buy.  Use that info to search the net for price and availability.  Then do some research to check the validity of the prospective vendor.   And, I much prefer Paypal as there is another layer of buyer protection there.

 

Local stores have a very limited variety to choose.  And most don't provide any services or parts anyway beyond the original sale. 

 

On the subject of parts:  When selecting a gun be sure that seals, air caps, nozzles are available if spending enough to worry about that.  You may want a range of nozzle sizes for primer, base etc or, heaven forbid, drop it and damage the nozzle or air cap.  

 

That is the major reason I bought the gun I did, it came with 3 different sizes and Devilbiss always has provided parts.   Not cheaply, but available. And I've never used the good gun for primer so the 1.8 tip is still brand new.  Just don't want to take a chance on not getting all the primer out and messing up the next real finish paint work I do.

Edited July 14, 2022 by kencombs

[Sam Buchanan]

As a wise man once said, “It’s not the arrow, son, it’s the Indian.”

 

Good equipment won’t overcome mediocre technique, and good technique will work well with a wide range of equipment. ?

Edited July 14, 2022 by Sam Buchanan

[Plymouthy Adams]

I also have guns for top coat and guns for primer.  Beside the obvious tip size issue as stated above cleaning is also an issue.  Long before I went with Sharpe/Finex series HVLP my go to were Binks....and again with both primer and topcoat guns on hand.  Some will yell loud that this is expensive....yes...it can be....and yes, it does not have to be.  I was fortunate to find my Binks guns NIB at places like a pawn shop for pennies on the dollar....My most expensive Binks was 30.00 in this manner.  Like all things you can come across a deal, like all things these deals are not often dropped in your lap and proactively pursuing these items is the only manner you will attain them.  Time is often a commodity we do not have in abundance so then it is time to weight the pay to play scale and proceed accordingly.   Many here have built their shop and inventory over a long elapsed time frame ever seeking the goal and level of shop/equipment they want or need....just starting out and such will place the newcomer at a great financial disposition if the goal is an overnight setup.  Just like kids today....they want everything mom and pop has but want it now without thinking of the sacrifices the parents made raising the family and providing as needed.   Instant gratification....just like everything else in their lives is NOW and ME 

[Bryan]

13 hours ago, MarcDeSoto said:

Boy they sure try to trick you into buying a fake Devilbiss gun with a name that the lazy buyer might miss!  

https://www.ebay.com/itm/224361006632?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20201210111314%26meid%3Df11ec02078f34bc0927de0e2ff99237e%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D374144100768%26itm%3D224361006632%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv9PairwiseWebMskuAspectsV202110NoVariantSeedWithRevOpt90NoRelevanceKnnRecallV1&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A224361006632f11ec02078f34bc0927de0e2ff99237e|enc%3AAQAHAAABMAoNKsJM3HOHkM0OuV9XKcsoXSMLk3wBBxTIYdgqgcSsJbD%2BWQW2%2Fi9%2FH9y8TZ%2F9TU3Es3oTKRolT9u5mF91RnSGjcRDdDpXI3GNi9QMheFP623sd2luaveQWWobQW5%2FETdaHfTClMvz1MrUDuLlniJs01OMKxjv2cBvKT45%2Fh%2FHp0bChRXq8fqLB7mk2cr0KFUr0xrF0ZyoiWoSy3H5Jl2PvISn4kUKUz0oDzV2VKRqQ9%2FEmUoOqSrV7IyYAHsDXdaaebOhwngDB4A6DuonRkAuymP6%2BqQ%2BiiKl0LRjGWqEOZtPu%2BCudxC5DU4p8BT5N1B34C1U7K67LkREdZbpuaWVEG1bysPJjRGgvOmW7WefeV1q3GvTXHgyrHzsSWpaBY3%2BcqWYIZ7otP1N%2Fp6lJXo%3D|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2047675

Think they left off the "T" in the name.

[OUTFXD]

4 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

As a wise man once said, “It’s not the arrow, son, it’s the Indian.”

 

Good equipment won’t overcome mediocre technique, and good technique will work well with a wide range of equipment. ?

That is a much better Metaphor than my Farrarri!

[kencombs]

13 hours ago, OUTFXD said:

The Dewalt guns are good hobby level guns.

 

Gravity feed with a BIG paint cup

https://smile.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWMT70777-Gravity-Feed-Spray/dp/B00OK3TLH6/ref=sr_1_1?crid=30KXKOE09X0XU&keywords=dewalt+hvlp+spray&qid=1657778210&sprefix=dewalt+hvlp+spray%2Caps%2C174&sr=8-1

 

Gravity Feed with a small paint cup

https://smile.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWMT70778-Gravity-Touch-Up-Spray/dp/B00OK3TQJY/ref=sr_1_3?crid=30KXKOE09X0XU&keywords=dewalt+hvlp+spray&qid=1657778210&sprefix=dewalt+hvlp+spray%2Caps%2C174&sr=8-3

 

My personal set up.  Siphon feed.

https://smile.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWMT70779-Siphon-Spray-Gun/dp/B00OK3TQFS/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2NNIC76WW63K7&keywords=DWMT70779&qid=1657778427&sprefix=dwmt70779%2Caps%2C122&sr=8-2

+ pressure pot

https://smile.amazon.com/Astro-2PG8S-Quart-Pressure-Silver/dp/B000RH86N4/ref=sr_1_25?crid=1HC4VGY08ZA0Q&keywords=pressure+pot+paint+sprayer&qid=1657778631&sprefix=Pressure+pot%2Caps%2C144&sr=8-25

 

My set up is mainly one of familiarity.  It may not be the best setup for spraying cars,  But it is what I used for decades while hanging off Bridges and dams.

 

I also have a Harbor freight Purple $25 siphon feed gun for doing parts.

https://www.harborfreight.com/20-oz-hvlp-gravity-feed-air-spray-gun-with-regulator-62381.html?_br_psugg_q=hvlp

 

Once again,  I was an industrial painter where the idea was to get as much paint on a surface as thick as possible.   It doesnt really translate to applying a micron thick layer for a mirror finish.  But alot of the toys are the same and the overlapping spray techniques are the same.

Those deWalt guns look remarkably like HF stuff.  Both are copies or adaptations of a Sata design from the last century.  But, I guess if you have to copy, Sata is a great one to copy!

 

Sad to say, most of these come from 'you know where' no matter what name is on them.  Even sadder some are absolutely identical, down to parts interchange with the originals.  That's sad because the maker uses the original specs under contract to make them for the original company.  Sometimes even on the same machinery! 

 

I've read several horror stories from companies that have off-shored their manufacturing only to find the contractor is using the intellectual property gained along with the contract to compete.