Questions on brake and fuel lines.

[MarcDeSoto]

Where is a good source for fuel lines?  Do I need a flaring tool?  On my brake line kit, it doens't have a brake line long enough to reach from the MC to the rear axle.  Can I just screw a short piece into the another piece to make up the difference?  

 

 

 

 

[Doug&Deb]

I recommend nickel copper line. I made my own. It’s easy to work with and lasts forever. Be aware of the ferrule in the fuel line coming out of the tank. They’re hard to find.

[Plymouthy Adams]

if you bought a kit.....the kit supplier should  have included a coupler and instructions for which lines in the kit are to be connected for reaching the rear axle y connector.  If not, contact them for this information and or as stated, get proactive and grab some line and a flaring tool and quit depending on companies that are not up to speed/falling short on the products they are advertising

[Los_Control]

Dunno if it will help. My truck line looks similar to this.

There was a short coiled piece that came from the master cylinder, then a T that feeds the front line. Then it had another short line with a coupler to connect to the rear line.

In photo I have a T instead of a coupler, parts store did not have coupler so I bought a T & a plug.

I can only assume my truck had original stock lines .... they certainly looked 70 years old.

 

Kind of confusing to me why they used 2 pieces to get to the rear area?

From the end of my T that should be a coupler, next line connects to the frame bracket where the rubber line connects to the rear axle.

IMHO, the rear line could run from the frame bracket all the way to the front T. Leaving the coupler out.

 

There was another brake/fuel line thread where we though maybe when making lines from a 200' roll, they came to the end and added a coupler to connect the next 200' roll and carry on. All guesses on our part.

 

Or did they intentionally make that rear line in 2 pieces? 

 

Do you have enough pieces there to make it with 2 lines?

Edited January 6, 2022 by Los_Control

[Bryan]

I'm going with nickel/copper for both the fuel and brake lines.  I bought this tool.  Amazon.com: OTC 6502 Master Brake Flaring Tool Kit : Automotive

[Sam Buchanan]

1 hour ago, MarcDeSoto said:

Where is a good source for fuel lines?  Do I need a flaring tool?  On my brake line kit, it doens't have a brake line long enough to reach from the MC to the rear axle.  Can I just screw a short piece into the another piece to make up the difference?  

 

 

 

 

 

I used "soft" nickel-alloy brakes lines from the local auto parts emporium for the new fuel and brake systems.

 

I didn't need one, just used various lengths of pre-flared brake lines off the shelf and couplers as needed.

 

Yes.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Sam Buchanan

[Plymouthy Adams]

3 hours ago, Los_Control said:

Dunno if it will help. My truck line looks similar to this.

There was a short coiled piece that came from the master cylinder, then a T that feeds the front line. Then it had another short line with a coupler to connect to the rear line.

In photo I have a T instead of a coupler, parts store did not have coupler so I bought a T & a plug.

I can only assume my truck had original stock lines .... they certainly looked 70 years old.

 

Kind of confusing to me why they used 2 pieces to get to the rear area?

From the end of my T that should be a coupler, next line connects to the frame bracket where the rubber line connects to the rear axle.

IMHO, the rear line could run from the frame bracket all the way to the front T. Leaving the coupler out.

 

There was another brake/fuel line thread where we though maybe when making lines from a 200' roll, they came to the end and added a coupler to connect the next 200' roll and carry on. All guesses on our part.

 

Or did they intentionally make that rear line in 2 pieces? 

 

Do you have enough pieces there to make it with 2 lines?

now I see why you are replacing the line.....

[Merle Coggins]

The coil coming from the master cylinder is to allow some flex in the line between the rubber mounted bell housing and the frame. As I recall it then goes into a 4 way connector. 2 lines come out and go to the two front wheels and one goes rearward to the rear axle. It originally would have been one line from the 4 way block all the way to the flex hose that goes down to the axle. 

 

Your coiled line looks to have a few kinks in it. That could cause a bit of restriction in fluid flow. 

[keithb7]

Acquiring tools and making your own brake lines is character building. It can be humbling at times. You may end up with 3 or 4 different tube benders to try and make the job easier. You may end up with a couple of different flaring tools. After one or two initial tool purchases turned into useless junk, after 5 or so double flares are completed.

 

In the end it's rewarding work. A good skill to have in your arsenal. I only trust my own work when it comes to brakes. Actually any work on my old Mopar. Nobody else lays a "finger on my butterfinger". Just me. So when I need brakes lines, I rise to the task. Not without humbling errors and re-dos. Alas we smile when we hit the original brakes on the big hill in our old Mopars.

 

My old Mopars have given me the opportunity to learn so many new skills that I use on many cars well outside of the flathead era. Just last month I installed a new Master Cylinder in a 2006 car. Piece of cake. Attributed to so much old Mopar brake work!

 

Indeed go buy yourself a double flaring tool and a long piece of brake line. Get at it and you'll get 'er done. It not hard. Just trying sometimes, depending on the line you need to make.

 

I bought this one. A better tool in my experience than the horseshoe clamp traditional one. https://www.amazon.com/Cal-Van-Tools-165-Master-Flaring/dp/B00AOTBVJQ/ref=sr_1_3?crid=JLS8A4UNUHZX&keywords=CAl+van+brake+line+flare+kit&qid=1641532314&sprefix=cal+van+brake+line+flare+kit%2Caps%2C112&sr=8-3Keith

 

PS.

Purchase more brake line that you think you need! Trust me.

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by keithb7

[MarcDeSoto]

Thanks Keith!  So I assume I should stick to the factory size tubing so it fits in the original junction blocks and switches?  My Parts Book says 3/16" for brake lines and 5/16" for fuel.  I'm assuming they don't sell new junction blocks and switches.  

[keithb7]

I stayed with stock line sizing. I have made many brake and fuel lines. No issues. I see no reason enlarge stock brakes. The stock master and wheel cylinders are engineered as a system with the line size chosen. I trust their engineering over my 2 bit education.

 

A new brake switch is easy to find. They are generic and readily available. Original style and proper stock fitting junction blocks can be tricky to source. Modern ones can work with some custom fabrication I suppose. I rounded up some old spare axles and scavenged parts off them. Junction blocks were saved for spares!

Edited January 7, 2022 by keithb7

[Los_Control]

21 minutes ago, Merle Coggins said:

Your coiled line looks to have a few kinks in it. That could cause a bit of restriction in fluid flow. 

Yeah that line is junk ... was a first attempt with my new bender and I need to replace it. One more reason to go with nickel/copper.

I have decided to replace it with nicop lines as easier to work with. But that first line is the perfect length & shape I need to make a new one so I keep it around.

 

I was just thinking about how these cars were assembled at the factory.

I am going out on a limb and guessing 1948 Dodge, Plymouth, Chrysler, Desoto would share the same basic frame.

That would make all the brake lines from the master cylinder to the front wheels the same?

I assume the rear axle assembly is done in advance with all the lines & brakes assembled.  Most of the lines for the year would also be the same.

 

This leaves the one piece from the front T to the rear frame bracket that varies in length depending on wheel base.

While there would only be a few options here, sure they were all pre made also.

 

So it would be pretty easy to make a pre made kit for these cars, would just be the rear line that length would depend on model.

 

@MarcDeSoto I hope you have some or all of the original lines, My fuel line is 5/16" the Brake lines are also 5/16" except for the rear axle.

Has 5/16" rubber line from frame to T mounted on axle housing & 3/16" going from T to each side for the drums.

 The front wheels were all 5/16" iirc ... only rear axle is smaller size.

Seems this would change depending on the size of wheel cylinder bore. If the Desoto has big 11" brakes, 3/16" might be small?

 

 

[MarcDeSoto]

3/16 is what the Parts Book says for the brake lines, and 5/16 for fuel lines.  Does anyone have some pics of how you route the front fuel line and brake line?  Where does the brake line switch go?  Unfortunately, my doesn't have existing front brake lines or fuel line.  The the brake switch mount on top of the frame front cross member?  or below it?  

[Los_Control]

1 hour ago, MarcDeSoto said:

3/16 is what the Parts Book says for the brake lines, and 5/16 for fuel lines.

Let me apologize here for being wrong, was last year I did the front lines.  I still need to finish the rear lines.

I make one more post then shut up  I do have 3/16" lines up front also. 

 

Again this is a 1/2 ton truck with 10" brakes. The master cylinder has a 1.25" bore, the wheel cylinders iirc are 1"

It is a engineered system as others have said.

I think it may be relevant to your situation on the routing.

 

The 5/16" fuel line runs from tank to front cross member and over to fuel pump. Your tank location will be different, I imagine it still runs up the frame to the cross member and over to fuel pump.

 

The line coming from the master cylinder to the rear frame mount is 5/16".

There is 2 T's in that line. They are 5/16" x 5/16" x3/16" in each one.

The T on rear axle is 5/16 x 3/16 x 3/16

 

A 3/16 line going to the right front

A 3/16 line going to left front

then same for the T mounted on rear axle.

Everything circled in red is 5/16 feeding 3/16. I just imagine a car would be similar. Not 3/16 from master to all 4 wheels.

But what do I know? Hope someone does post correct info.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Los_Control

[MarcDeSoto]

Los Control, I've never heard of different sizes for the brake lines, but I'm no expert.  I found some brake line for the front of the car.  Not sure whether it's my DeSoto lines or from a old 48 Dodge parts car I had.  I want to know where does the switch go?  Under the frame, in front of the frame?  Does anyone have a good pic of the front frame of their car showing brake or fuel lines?  

 

 

[desoto1939]

on my 39 desoto the brake switch connector which you show is mounted on the frame approx six inches from wher the brake line comes out of my MC.  My MC

[Los_Control]

Sure glad @desoto1939 jumped in there.

 

 

The red almost looks like someone did some welding.

The green is so crunk, no way that is factory.

The blue the plastic was not even available in 1948.

That connection I would guess is not factory & a repair someone did in the past.

 

The trucks did a switch on the master cylinder. All works the same when you get pressure through the line to activate the switch.

 

[MarcDeSoto]

I think you are seeing things.  There's no plastic there.  Those jackets are steel and I guess are meant to protect the line from flying gravel.  There's nothing welded or repaired here.  Don't know what you are talking about.  If you look at my brake line, there is no way the switch is located near the MC.   I have a 48 DeSoto, not a truck or a 39.   It's somewhere on the front frame judging from the brake line I have.  

[keithb7]

Hopefully someone will up my meagre anté and show you pics from a ‘48.

 

Here is what took place in 1938. 
Driver’s side of engine bay. See steering gear box and engine distributor for reference.  That’s a generic brake light switch you see. I bought it at local parts store for like $10.  It threaded in perfectly to the brake line distribution block. 

Don’t mind the wiring mess. Its a driver. And still a “work in progress” sorta deal. 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by keithb7

[joecoozie]

On my 47 Chrysler (not sure DeSoto is the same - might be) the junction block that the brake switch screws into is mounted on top of the frame on the drivers side - up front near the radiator.

[MarcDeSoto]

Is your Chrysler a 6 or an 8?  Keith, That's your fuel line on top right?  So your fuel line and brake line screw into the same junction?  

Edited January 8, 2022 by MarcDeSoto

[Frank Gooz]

Marc

There is a small double male brass ferrule that is in the fuel tank fitting then a standard 5/16 tubing with a standard double flare will work. That what my 48 Desoto suburban looked like. And that is the same thing that is in my 1950 Dodge Coronet. Andys has the double ferrule for real cheap. I think i paid lee then ten dollars for two with shipping.

 

My brake light switch is on the left frame rail, top touching the radiator support right in the corner also touching the inner fender.

I will try to get a picture for you.

Good luck

 

[MarcDeSoto]

Thank you Frank and Joe.  Since you have a DeSoto, albeit, a Suburban, and Joe has a 47 Chrysler, I think you must be right on.  I also watched the 1948 Mr. Tech filmstrip on the hydraulic system and it shows a drawing of the brake lines, which shows the switch on the left front part of the frame.  I wonder what that hook thing is for?  Maybe there is a hole in the frame that anchors it and the bolt hole to bolt it tight.  

[joecoozie]

 I wonder what that hook thing is for?  Maybe there is a hole in the frame that anchors it and the bolt hole to bolt it tight.  

 

YEP

[keithb7]

9 hours ago, MarcDeSoto said:

Is your Chrysler a 6 or an 8?  Keith, That's your fuel line on top right?  So your fuel line and brake line screw into the same junction?  

6 cylinder. 
 

The rear of block upper line seen comes from the master cylinder. The bottom line comes out of the distribution block and heads to the rear axles.  That line splits in two at the rear distribution block mounted at the rear axle. 
 

The two front lines seen go to the front brakes. They get their own separate line each,right off this first distribution block, located in the engine bay. 
 

This ‘38 car has the earlier type master cylinder. Located near the firewall/cowel. Down low near the floor.  Yours is likely located further back, under the driver’s floor of your ‘48. Is that correct? 
 

There are no fuel lines shown in the pic above. Only brake lines. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by keithb7