Can't get no spark-isfaction

[Purple Moo Cow]

So those are the parts numbers of the distributor. Based on photos I found through the rest of this forum, my wires are hooked up correct, and I got the tension spring? Of the points under the screw with the connection to the condenser. Also, the screw is a tad long but it is not currently touching the points. It's not fully screwed in but it's tight on the wires from the points tension spring. 

[Plymouthy Adams]

9 minutes ago, Merle Coggins said:

 

just find where you dropped your insulator and place it where it goes...........and per Merle's advice.....get a VOM if you plan to work on electrical of your car....

[Purple Moo Cow]

@Merle Coggins I'll double check the grounding, perhaps the rubber piece is not sufficiently stopping it from grounding. 

 

@Plymouthy AdamsI have a VOM, and will be trying to check for continuity next chance I get. Find my dropped insulator? Oh boy...I guess I just need to buy a complete NOS distributor 

[Plymouthy Adams]

IF you have a factory repair manual.....please look to the parts breakdown and view the insulators and their position on the points...as it is now...you are shorting you ignition straight to ground.....

[Purple Moo Cow]

@Plymouthy Adams

 

I only have a basic reprint manual with the attached diagram. Nothing is labeled as insulators in it.

 

I also pulled up the NOS plate picture from mopar mall, and pulled off my plate so I could verify things. It certainly appears to me that they look identical in where the connections are attached. Maybe it's time to just buy a petronix replacement for the points. 

[_shel_ny]

Have read through the thread, and may have missed it, but if no one else has mentioned it, let me suggest..................   don't change the engine position while you have the distributor out.   

 

The tang on the distributor matches up with the slot in the oil pump.  If the distributor was, somehow, possibly by some miracle, properly set for #1 plug spark at the 7 o'clock position, not having to reset that would be one additional obstacle that would be avoided as you continue on.  7 o'clock is not mandatory, but is preferred as a standard position.

[Purple Moo Cow]

@_shel_ny appreciate it. Haven't moved the engine nor would I with the dizzy out of it. I'm assuming the engine/distributor was set up correctly  previously so I'm not looking to change that. 

[desoto1939]

Purple Cow:

 

I looked in my autolite catalog and for 1946-48 Dodge here is the info:

 

Dizzy IGS 4207a_1

cap igc-1107s

rotor igs 1016B

Contact IGP3028ES

Condensor IG3927G

Breaker Plate IGS 3004J

Housing IGS2158

shaft IGS1113r

Spring set IG636HS

Vacuum: VC 2082R

Service coil CR-4001

 

Looks like you have the correct dizzy

 

rich hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[Purple Moo Cow]

@desoto1939 thanks for the info! Guess I'll start pulling up parts to order

[wagoneer]

2 minutes ago, Purple Moo Cow said:

@desoto1939 thanks for the info! Guess I'll start pulling up parts to order

I still recommend that you bench test your dizzy and coil before ordering anything. A 15 min test will tell you what you need to replace.

[Purple Moo Cow]

2 minutes ago, wagoneer said:

I still recommend that you bench test your dizzy and coil before ordering anything. A 15 min test will tell you what you need to replace.

I conducted a bench test yesterday, no dice though. Trying to resolve this no spark issue without annoying the whole forum aha

[keithb7]

I just jumped into this thread. I read the hi-lites. There's an army of help already here. Not sure I have much more to offer except suggest a few tools. A digital multi-meter (DMM) is a priority. You need one.

 

Ideally you would be able to confirm voltage is present at various stages of the primary and secondary ignition system. Additionally a multi-meter allows continuity testing. It's a game changer when trouble shooting. One awesome thing it does is it can tell you if wires are connected to ground, when they should not be.

 

I suppose a DMM could be a pretty foreign, somewhat useless tool if a person has little to no understanding of electricity. We often instruct others with the assumption that they have a certain amount of understanding and knowledge of the topic at hand. We all want to help get your car up and running. We all love seeing another old Mopar flash up and hit the roads. If you own an old Mopar, you can overcome massive roadblocks by reading and understanding the various systems.

 

We will throw out ideas and help here. When you get it running, consider booking some reading time and source some good books. You cannot get any better help anywhere than educating yourself. 

 

Ok, off my soap box. My next suggestions include a DMM. Do you have one. Can you use it?

Edited August 2, 2021 by keithb7

[_shel_ny]

I agree with keithb here. You need to check to see that you have the "volts" where they need to be, and follow their progress through the system. Replacing parts may eventually lead to a fix, but good to just replace the ones that need replacing.  Don't want to read all the way again. Did you replace the condenser? Often a common fail item.

 

Once you find that spark the next thing may be getting it where it belongs at the right time ?

 

I had that problem with my D24. Thought all was ready to go, but apparently when I slid the dizzy back into the engine the tang did not line up just right, and took a half turn before dropping into place. Firing when there was no compressed fuel there didn't work out well.

[greg g]

The yellow wires are going to be way to stiff to allow the vacuum and centrifugal advance systems to work.   They need to be thin and flexible to allow the breaker plate to move smoothly and fully through it complete arc.  Others have mentioned the leads are available at NAPA.

[The Oil Soup]

Also verify that the vacuum advance works, it either does or doesn’t. I think oldmoparts rebuilds them.

[kencombs]

3 hours ago, greg g said:

The yellow wires are going to be way to stiff to allow the vacuum and centrifugal advance systems to work.   They need to be thin and flexible to allow the breaker plate to move smoothly and fully through it complete arc.  Others have mentioned the leads are available at NAPA.

I've been able to use wire that was too stiff for that app but had to make it way too long and put 'curls' in it to provide the flex needed.  That requires very careful routing to not interfere with other stuff in there.

 

Agree with the need to test with a meter or light in a methodical fashion.  I like to start with all the connections disconnected.  Turn on the key.  Measure voltage at the wire that goes to the coil - (for a + ground).  If ok, connect it.

Be sure the points are open.  Measure at the coil +.  If ok, connect it.  Now measure the other end of that wire.  If ok, connect and measure at the screw.  If ok measure the point just inside the distributor.  If ok, connect the wire to the points and test.  Repeat on the other end of that wire. If ok connect the points and check for power at the actual contact face of the moving arm.   With everthing connected you should be able to hold the coils high tension lead near a ground and use a screwdriver (or something) to make contact across the points (completed the low tension circuit to ground) and see a spark.  jump the gap when that tool is removed.

If a test at any point fails, find and fix the fault before continuing.

 

Of course, step one is to measure the coil resistance on both sets of windings to be sure it is capable of creating a spark.

 

Forgot to add:  At every test step, wiggle, shake and pull at connection to be sure there isn't an intermittent looseness.

 

It helps to have clip leads on the meter instead of just  pointed probes.

Edited August 2, 2021 by kencombs

[Kilgore47]

This is a simplified generic ignition system diagram.  I marked it up to show positive ground.  Not sure if something like this has been added to this post.  Hope it helps.

[maddmaxx1949]

2 hours ago, Kilgore47 said:

This is a simplified generic ignition system diagram.  I marked it up to show positive ground.  Not sure if something like this has been added to this post.  Hope it helps.

 

 

Do you mind if I add this diagram to my minimalist wiring post in the tech archives?

[Kilgore47]

On 8/3/2021 at 11:11 AM, maddmaxx1949 said:

Do you mind if I add this diagram to my minimalist wiring post in the tech archives?

I don't mind.  Don't remember where I got the diagram.  Could have been on this site somewhere.  I just marked it up to show positive ground.

[keithb7]

Good diagram. I like it too. 
When troubleshooting, remember a circuit is a circle. Electrons come from your negative battery post. When they have traveled over to the positive battery post they have completed the required circle.  There are plenty of hurdles, stops, detours along the path. Given the opportunity they’ll make it back to the opposite battery post. 
 

When key switch is off, 6V is sitting at the ready, right at the switch. Turn it on then electrons flow to the coil. They’ll sit there till the points close. The little buggers can then flow throw the primary coil winding, thru the closed points, to ground. Which is back to the battery. Completing the circle. The primary coil becomes saturated. When the points open, the primary coil circuit is broken. Electrons cannot flow. Then the magnetic field around the primary coil collapses. It jumps to the secondary coil. High voltage gains here. At that precise time the distributor rotor points to the next wire lug in the distributor cap. The large voltage in the secondary coil now rushes out thru the coil wire, thru the rotor to the proper sparkplug wire. It rushes to the sparkplug tip. The spark plus tip is grounded via the engine block. The high voltage from coil now jumps the air gap at the sparkplug tip to ground and creates a spark to ignite the air fuel mixture inside the cylinder.  The next electric circle is completed. 
 

Circuit=circle. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by keithb7

[greg g]

When you say you have no spark, where is it you have no spark? Have you tried to power your coil directly from the battery with a jumper wire? Make a jumper from 6ft of 12 gauge wire. Put an insulated alligator clip on each end.  If you want to get fancy, add an inline fuse holder with a 20 Amp fuse. Connect the coil negative post to the negative battery post.  This will bypass the ign switch and power the coil directly.   If the fuse blows you have a short some where in the distributor.  Now put the distributor  points cam in the flat position so the points are closed.   With a small screw driver, open the points manually.  If ther is a spark present at the points, this confirms that the points circuit is correct. At this point, you can now point to the ign switch as the likely fault. Bench testing the switch is a realitively easy process. You need to verify power in, another place where the jumper wire is useful, and also verify power out with the key in the run position.  With power to the switch, the key in run, the ign and acc terminals should be hot,  if not then your switch is bad.

 

If you get a start run idle situation with the jumper hooked to the coil, shut off is achieved by disconnecting the wire!  As mentioned these circuits are circular,  through a switch to the load or work and back to the batt through the ground connection.  The jumper wire will assure your path from battery to work is complete.  Your Chrysler may be a bit more complicated circuitry because the starter solenoid is integral with the bendix  but the jumper to the coil should energize the coil and points circuit to allow you to verify that it's working.

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by greg g

[Purple Moo Cow]

You all have been so helpful, I figured I should update you, especially since people keep throwing on more useful information without my response. I do apologize for nothing sooner, it's hard with little kids n no garage to get free time from the kids thay coincides with cooperating weather to work on the car. That being said, I brought my stuff inside and put in a new breaker plate, swapped out the wire and coil and ran a small circuit with just the battery, ignition coil and distributor. Low n behold I got spark! So while I have every intention of trouble shooting the parts I replaced again to see where the issue is, I'm very happy to be seeing spark. Once it stops raining I'm going to put the distributor back in, install my new plugs and wires and hopefully with everything set back up i can get her to run. I'll update again when able. 

[desoto1939]

glad that you are getting spark. I had suggested a new old stock breaker plate becasue youare then starting with a fresh factory situation.  You never know what the prior owner has done so eleminate what they did and start like you did.

 

Hope this solves you pbm.

 

Rich Hartung

[Purple Moo Cow]

21 minutes ago, desoto1939 said:

glad that you are getting spark. I had suggested a new old stock breaker plate becasue youare then starting with a fresh factory situation.  You never know what the prior owner has done so eleminate what they did and start like you did.

 

Hope this solves you pbm.

 

Rich Hartung

 

Yes n with everything in I have spark at the plug so it's a step in the right direction. Now I gotta figure out how to get this fuel pump working! Aha never a dull moment with these old cars 

[Kilgore47]

The first time I drove the P15 I had a one gallon lawnmower gas tank duct tapped to the fender with a gravity feed line to the carb.  Less than 5 mph around the block.  E brake only.  What could go wrong.  Had a smile on my face all the way.  A year after that the car was road worthy.

 

Keep working on your car when you have time.  It will all be worth it when it's on the road.