Ford Transmission Problems

[Dan Hiebert]

Still working on my brother-in-law's '57 Ford Custom.  Waiting for some body panels to come in, so I'll delve into the transmission issues the car is having in the meantime.  But, I am not that suave on transmissions, I can take it apart and address anything obvious, but more than that I am not sure of.  I'd certainly appreciate some input from those more knowledgeable on the subject than I before I tear into it.  It's a stock manual three speed column shift.  All clutch and shift linkage adjustments are correct.  Issue is that when driving, the car won't shift from first to second.  It won't come out of first, even when the shifter is moved to second.  It will only go into second if you grind it into reverse a tad on the way between first and second, don't know if that's an every time thing though, because I only did it once, kind of by accident because I was mad at it.  It will take off in second OK, and shift between second and third OK, and even downshift into first, but then the same issue arises.  I have never dealt with a transmission with this problem.  I notice that the synchronizer gears are readily available, perhaps because they're prone to wear out and it's a synchronizer issue?  (I just realized I never tried double clutching it.)  Something in the shift assembly is worn out?   Any suggestions would be welcome.   

[Dodgeb4ya]

Transmission shift lever issue?.....possibly the shifter side cover interlock balls and springs....springs missing....balls missing.

Worn parts etc.

These parts make sure two gears cannot attempt to engage the dame time.

Column shifter and linkage must be  thoroughly checked for wear and adjusted properly too.

[Sniper]

I was thinking interlock as well, not savvy at all on Ford transmissions though so take it with a grain of salt.

[kencombs]

12 hours ago, Dan Hiebert said:

Still working on my brother-in-law's '57 Ford Custom.  Waiting for some body panels to come in, so I'll delve into the transmission issues the car is having in the meantime.  But, I am not that suave on transmissions, I can take it apart and address anything obvious, but more than that I am not sure of.  I'd certainly appreciate some input from those more knowledgeable on the subject than I before I tear into it.  It's a stock manual three speed column shift.  All clutch and shift linkage adjustments are correct.  Issue is that when driving, the car won't shift from first to second.  It won't come out of first, even when the shifter is moved to second.  It will only go into second if you grind it into reverse a tad on the way between first and second, don't know if that's an every time thing though, because I only did it once, kind of by accident because I was mad at it.  It will take off in second OK, and shift between second and third OK, and even downshift into first, but then the same issue arises.  I have never dealt with a transmission with this problem.  I notice that the synchronizer gears are readily available, perhaps because they're prone to wear out and it's a synchronizer issue?  (I just realized I never tried double clutching it.)  Something in the shift assembly is worn out?   Any suggestions would be welcome.   

Reading the red part literally, the shift lever moves down, toward the dash and up into the norma second postion, yet the trans is still in low gear?   I cannot think of any way that could happen.  However, if it really doesn't move down toward the dash, it could be the column shifting mechanism isn't properly selecting the 2/3 gate, but slipping between the two.  That could leave it low but the lever would move nothing.

[Dan Hiebert]

7 hours ago, kencombs said:

Reading the red part literally, the shift lever moves down, toward the dash and up into the norma second postion, yet the trans is still in low gear?   I cannot think of any way that could happen.  However, if it really doesn't move down toward the dash, it could be the column shifting mechanism isn't properly selecting the 2/3 gate, but slipping between the two.  That could leave it low but the lever would move nothing.

Yep, you read that right.  Baffles me, too.  It only seems to do this while driving, though.  If the car is stopped, it will go back and forth through all the gears.  That's why I was thinking it may be either a synchronizer, or the shifting mechanism that's on the transmission.  To get down the road in other than first, I had to start off in second.

[Dan Hiebert]

19 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

Transmission shift lever issue?.....possibly the shifter side cover interlock balls and springs....springs missing....balls missing.

Worn parts etc.

These parts make sure two gears cannot attempt to engage the dame time.

Column shifter and linkage must be  thoroughly checked for wear and adjusted properly too.

Probably the first thing(s) I'll check once I get the tranny off.  Looking at the exploded view of the transmission I can see how those interlock parts affect shifting.  That may be easier to fix than taking the whole thing apart.

[kencombs]

Still thinking about this.  It almost certainly is in the shift linkage, really the selection mechanism at the bottom of the column. All the interlock does is prevent movement of both levers when one or the other is not in neutral.  Failure in that area would either allow you to put it into two gears simultaneously or prevent lever movement at all. 
 

[Dan Hiebert]

Thanks for putting on the thinking caps and the replies.  I sure hope it's in the shift linkages, so I won't have to drop the transmission.  They're adjusted per the manual, but that doesn't eliminate something else being wrong with them.  Two person job to check, and my "assistant" is out of town - but I'd rather wait and check up top before taking the tranny out.  This car has turned into a challenge, my brother-in-law had a list of just 8 things that he thought needed fixing, knowing that he knows diddly-squat about cars, I knew there'd be more, but so far I've found 71, and that's just to get it safe, reliable, and presentable.  I'll update on the tranny once I get it figured out, since this seems like a generic issue and the resolution may benefit others.  

[kencombs]

Sometimes my smart phone makes a good helper.  Video things I can’t see well so I can look at the lever inside an outside at the same time for instance
 

might have to use some duct tape to hold it where needed

Edited March 26, 2021 by kencombs

[Tooljunkie]

I remember someting similar with my 68 chevy pickup,column parts were worn and if you didnt go up towards reverse before hitting 2nd the linkage would lock up. Suprisingly my wife drove it like a champ. No adjustments will solve a wear issue. May be able to dial it out to compensate for minor wear. 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Tooljunkie

[Dan Hiebert]

22 hours ago, kencombs said:

Sometimes my smart phone makes a good helper.  Video things I can’t see well so I can look at the lever inside an outside at the same time for instance
 

might have to use some duct tape to hold it where needed

Hmm, and I've got one, yet I never think of things like that.  I'm certainly not opposed to technology, but I usually leave it in the house when I go out to the shop, unless I'm expecting a call.  If it weren't snowing to beat the band right now, I'd be halfway out the door to try this out.  Thanks for the nudge!  

[kencombs]

2 hours ago, Dan Hiebert said:

Hmm, and I've got one, yet I never think of things like that.  I'm certainly not opposed to technology, but I usually leave it in the house when I go out to the shop, unless I'm expecting a call.  If it weren't snowing to beat the band right now, I'd be halfway out the door to try this out.  Thanks for the nudge!  

I'm in the habit of keeping it handy.  My shop is over 300ft from the house.  I'm usually alone.  A fall or other injury could leave me without aid for a long time.  But 'hey SIRI, call 911' would have help on the way, and I wouldn't even have to be holding the phone, just within voice range.  Hope it never happens again, but if so, I'm covered.   I said again, because I was knocked off a ladder by a falling limb a few years back.  Home alone, two broken vertebra but had to walk to the house.  Luckily know lasting damage, but could easily been much worse.

 

In addition the phone acts as a remote control for my newest hearing aids.

 

Lots of times I've found labels on things to be in impossible to read locations.  Like working on my furnace last month, just stick the phone in, snap pic, rotate the phone so pic is right side up, use two fingers to enlarge and there's the info!  Same for stamped or cast numbers on engines, trans, rear ends, frames etc.

 

Really a handy 'tool'.  I just can't figure out why we call them  'phones' as that is the least used function anymore.

Edited March 27, 2021 by kencombs

[Tooljunkie]

I use my phone quite often, for pictures around corners, and the magnifier app is great!

hey! Siri! Only works if iphone is unlocked or locked and on charge. 

[Dan Hiebert]

This AM I did the iPhone video thing with the column shift assembly.  Nothing obvious at first glance.  Now it'll be about a month before I get back around to this.  Opportunity came up to take a trip to New Mexico with our daughter to see my dad, and visit my uncle in Illinois on the way back.  Hopefully I can squeeze in a little time to visit a salvage yard or two, since we'll be taking my pick-up and will have some room for "stuff" for once.   

[Dodgeb4ya]

Reading thru this thread again...I'm thinking like others...probably a column issue.

The 60's GM'S had the problem of jamming between gears...you had to get out of the car ...open the hood and lift both levers up to neutral position to fix till the next time.

[kencombs]

On 3/29/2021 at 11:55 AM, Dodgeb4ya said:

Reading thru this thread again...I'm thinking like others...probably a column issue.

The 60's GM'S had the problem of jamming between gears...you had to get out of the car ...open the hood and lift both levers up to neutral position to fix till the next time.

That GM problem was prevalent in the 50s through the 60s.  Repaired, replaced and 'spoke loudly to' probably a hundred or so. When started working in Dad's salvage/shop in the 60s those 50s Chevys, especially 49-54 pickups, where frequent vistors.  

[MackTheFinger]

5 hours ago, kencombs said:

That GM problem was prevalent in the 50s through the 60s.  Repaired, replaced and 'spoke loudly to' probably a hundred or so. When started working in Dad's salvage/shop in the 60s those 50s Chevys, especially 49-54 pickups, where frequent vistors.  

 

That was always aggravating.. I carried a big stick, opened the hood and beat the living daylights out of the shift arms when they locked up. 

[Dan Hiebert]

Back from an iron-butt road trip, a tad over 5,500 miles.  A shout-out to the new Dodge Rams (still can't bring myself to just call it "Ram"), it is very comfortable on a long trip, and even with the Hemi engine, I still got 24 average mpg for the trip. 

 

I've checked the Ford's column shift operation every way I can think of, it seems to be operating as it should.  However, I do believe I will remove, disassemble, clean, etc. the column shift mechanism to see if there is any wear that may be manifesting when the car is in motion before I drop the tranny.  I am not looking forward to having to drop the transmission, a PO welded in the support, otherwise it would be a piece of cake.  I'll either have to work around it, or devise an alternate method of dropping the support, as in cutting it out and engineering another way to put it back.  That'll have to wait, though.  Spring has actually arrived in northern Maine (there's usually still a foot or two of snow on ground at this time, but it's 99% gone this year) and I want to get our cars out, but the Ford is currently in the way.  Gotta put it back together enough to swap places with the D24 in the back of the garage.    

[greg g]

Had a 64 Fairlane with a similar problem.  Decided to put in a cheap floor shifter (Mr gasket) while doing that, found the rear mounts gone to mush allowing the Trans to settle which changed the alignment of the linkage and levers.  So I replaced them.  Put the floor shift in any way problem solved and noticed the vibration the car had went away also.  I put that down to the bad mounts.  So some of the shifter issue was probably  on the perished mounts.  

 

Just took a trip for the dealership to swap a ram 1500 longhorn to PA to pickup a Challeger GT, liked driving the truck better.  The truck was silver set the cruise at 72 and had a quiet trip.  The Challenger was orange, loud, stiff and uncomfortable.  And the cruise set at 68 I was attracting too much attention.

[Dan Hiebert]

I'll replace the mount by default, but it's not too bad at first glance.  This will just be one of those jobs where I go in expecting to get really dirty, and ruin whatever I'm wearing, although I do have some "dirty work" attire.  Got the cars' parking situation swapped out yesterday, not as big a chore as I anticipated.  Taking advantage of the few weeks between the snow melting and onslaught of blackflies to clear fallen trees from winter.

 

That mpg average includes 2K miles of towing a Prius (on a dolly), so I'm duly impressed.  Saw quite a few Challengers on the trip, all of which seemed to be trying to attract attention.  

[Plymouthy Adams]

20 hours ago, greg g said:

  

 

Just took a trip for the dealership to swap a ram 1500 longhorn to PA to pickup a Challeger GT, liked driving the truck better.  The truck was silver set the cruise at 72 and had a quiet trip.  The Challenger was orange, loud, stiff and uncomfortable.  And the cruise set at 68 I was attracting too much attention.

 

trucks ride like high priced luxury cars today.....most of them are used in same manner and never see a payload that a real truck would experience.  The Challanger....purpose built...not supposed to be comfortable in it...you got to stay alert and top of your game....there is no rhyme or reason for the ridiculous power many cars have today....other than...because they can and folk wanting what they don't need.

[Dan Hiebert]

An update...although I don't know yet if I've resolved the issue.  

 

I ended up dropping the tranny anyway.  Leaks like a sieve so I'm replacing the gaskets and seals.  Cut the center of the crossmember out and just fabbed up something simple to hold it when I put it back.  Welded plates onto the piece I cut out, that will be bolted through the pieces still on the car.  The car won't be romped on, so it should last.    

 

Anyway, the shifting assembly on the transmission is in good shape, no issues with the interlocking doo-dads.  What I did find, though, was that the transmission had a lot of metal pieces in it, 64 years worth it looks like.  Quite a bit in the synchronizer gear assembly, though they don't appear to be from the synchronizer itself, it is in good shape.  When I first got the car, I drained a mere pint or so of oil out of the tranny.  No idea how long it had been driven that low.  The reverse and low gears have quite a bit of galling on the ends of the gears, not enough that I'm going to replace them, tho.  The synchronizer and low/reverse selector sleeve were packed with a metal/oil slurry and some chunks.  I suspect centrifugal force was putting this stuff where it interfered with allowing the transmission to move from 1st to 2nd, perhaps why it would shift when stationary, but not when moving.  Just enough junk so it wouldn't affect it at idle, but once revving up it did. 

 

Right now just a theory, because I haven't found any other issues...yet.  I just got the tranny apart today, still gotta clean and reassemble it, then it'll be another week or so before I can get the car on the ground to test drive it.        

[Dan Hiebert]

How time flies!  One of those "thought I had added to the thread", when I actually only thought about it but never did.  Still haven't run the car, getting other issues fixed.  Almost every time I find something that "just needs adjustment", it turns out to be broken.  I now get surprised when an adjustment does indeed fix something.  I have the new floors, toe-boards, and rockers.  Looking forward to getting those done (I've discovered I enjoy welding).  I also have our own cars to fiddle with, which my BIL already knows take precedence.  He's not worried about time, since he currently has no place to keep the car.   

 

Any way, the transmission is back together, but I won't guarantee it.  It is quite worn, through and through, but it's not in the budget I was given to replace it or actually replace all the worn guts.  Cluster (idler) gear thrust washers were paper thin, one almost non-existent, same component's needle bearings are questionable.  One of the synchronizer assembly's tabs was chipped, output shaft bearing worn out, speedometer driving gear shot, etc.  I replaced and repaired what I could. 

 

I studied up on how these Ford three-speed manuals work and think I figured out that the problem is/was most likely the synchronizer gear (clutch, as Ford calls it).  It's the primary mechanism to shift the tranny from "low" to "intermediate" and back.  Intermediate to "high" and back doesn't use the synchronizer gear, haven't figured out how it gets away with that outside of having helical gears, but that seems to be it.  You'uns read what I found with the synchro gear.  But it's back together, pretty, and in the car.  I should be able to get it on the road before I bottle the garage up for winter.  I do have a line on a C4 tranny that I should be able to get in the car without much fuss, since my BIL can't drive manual anyway, I may be able to talk him into it if the manual one turns out to be too far gone.

   

[Dan Hiebert]

How time flies.  Almost done with the BIL's '57 Ford sedan.  Had to do much more body work than planned, the whole bottom of the car body is now "new", about the only thing I didn't have to replace was the trunk floor.

 

Anyway - the reason for the original post - the transmission issue with shifting seems to be fixed.  I found a repair kit for the synchronizer gear, it has new tabs so I could replace the broken one.  Sourced some replacement needle bearings and thrust washers that were in better condition from a friend who often works on older Fords.  And that thorough cleaning already mentioned.  First road tests are encouraging with the shifting but have to get an alignment done before I try highway speeds.  I think the broken synchronizer tab, bad thrust washers, and extreme "gunkiness" were the cause of the shifting issues, since I fixed all of those and the tranny now works.  Manual transmissions are very similar between makes, so my hope is that this may assist others if they have similar issues. 

 

 

[Ulu]

Somehow I missed reading this thread, but it was of interest to me because I had a few transmissions with this balky shifting out of first gear. 

One was a ‘66 Ford custom 500 and its problem was a sloppy cheap aftermarket shifter. If you tried to shift it fast, it would go into second gear, but the shifter would go back into the neutral “gate”. You could not change gears without climbing under the car to manually put the shifter into second gear.

 

One was a 1974 Dodge D100, and it’s problem was that the rubber engine and transmission mounts had sagged, causing the shifter to be out of line. One wrench adjustment under the hood and the owner was smiling. He didn’t want to change the rubber mounts but now that his truck would shift, that was all he needed.

 

One was my ‘59 Edsel and the other was my ‘47 Plymouth, and both had the same problem: Balky shifting from first into second.

 

In both cases the problem turned out to be worn out fingers on the shift forks. I had them welded up and dressed them down with a file, and the transmissions worked perfectly after that. 

 

Well, except that the Plymouth transmission was a rock, and you could beat the snot out of it and it did not care.

 

The Ford transmission had a glass jaw, in that the first gear was very weak, and you could rip them up quite reliably even with the small 223 six cylinder engine. This is why I sold the Edsel. It had a great engine, I loved the outrageous styling, but the transmissions were poop.