1934 Plymouth PE 6-volt Starter Question

[RobertKB]

I've had the appropriate size battery cables made at a local battery store in town. They will do any width and length of cable you need and will provide positive or negative clamp ends. Usually done the same day and reasonably priced. I always try to support local businesses, if possible, rather than use Amazon, Ebay, etc.

[knuckleharley]

2 hours ago, Mac McFarland said:

The cable I need is 36 inches long.  I checked with TSC (Tractor Supply Company) online and they have a 48 and a 31 inch one (1-gauge)  Looking online at Amazon...nothing fits.  Ebay has both  positive and negative ones (any lengths available), 0-gauge---the 36 inch costs $23.  From their pictures, I could not tell if the clamp end for the positive is bigger than the negative (or vice-versa).  I have queried the supplier, waiting a reply.  The Negative cable I have (going to starter) seems to be original but in great condition (no apparent wear/issues), so only planning on purchasing one.

If the original cable you took off your car is 36 inches long,I STRONGLY recommend you replace it with one 36 inches long. These things are thick and stiff,and you don't want to be wrestling with one to bend it and make it work.

 

Go to a farm equipment dealer or a big truck repair shop. Take your original cable with you,and tell them you want one just like it in 00 gauge. NOT a big deal for them,and you will end up with a well-made cable that will be trouble-free for years.

 

Do yourself a favor and have a new negative cable made at the same time,and be done with battery cables.

[TodFitch]

I don't know what your plans are for the car. If you eventually decide to restore it to show condition then you can get duplicate of original cables from a number of vintage car parts suppliers. If you just want it to be reliable then you can follow the advise of others for getting appropriate cables made up at some place local to you.

 

Unfortunately the one thing you can't really do is get a set at your local auto supply store.

[Silverdome]

Our local NAPA and O'Reilly's can make up custom battery cables.

[Jerry Roberts]

On 12/7/2020 at 7:27 PM, Mac McFarland said:

Hmmmm....I only ASSUMED that BOTH cables (the THICKER one coming from the Positive Terminal on the Battery, and the thinner one (leads under dash) belonged on the terminal on top of the starter (at the 'switch'

 

11 hours ago, Mac McFarland said:

The Negative cable I have (going to starter) seems to be original but in great condition (no apparent wear/issues), so only planning on purchasing one.

 BOTH of the battery cables need to be thicker for the 6 volt battery to turn the starter properly . 

[Sniper]

9 hours ago, TodFitch said:

Unfortunately the one thing you can't really do is get a set at your local auto supply store.

 

I dunno about that, generally speaking.  Battery cable(s) for my 51 is Standard A161, put that in Napa's part search and it comes up as CBL 711431, $19, needs to be ordered, available in two days.  same with the solenoid to starter cable.  Off the shelf, no, orderable, yes.

[Mac McFarland]

Just an update (and a new question--I'll start a new thread if I don't get an answer here).

 

I turned the engine over with the hand crank, just to make sure it was not frozen...been in my shed, then garage, for past 7 years (I kept antifreeze in it as it sometimes gets cold here in NC).  But did not attempt to start...waiting on Positive Cable to arrive Monday.  

 

But, the new question is, do any of you know what this is, and what it is for?  My late-brother had it in line (on top of the distributor cap with distributor wire coming from coil).  Do I need it?

 

 

[Dodgeb4ya]

A JC Whitney spark booster....adds up to 50 HP!

and.....radio suppression included for free.

[Mac McFarland]

Awesome....thanks for the info....definitely going to keep in in-line!

[Merle Coggins]

42 minutes ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

A JC Whitney spark booster....adds up to 50 HP!

and.....radio suppression included for free.

 

Key words there are "up to"... May only add 0.0001 HP, but could potentially be 'up to' 50 in the perfect mythical application. 

[Mac McFarland]

I was just concerned that it was a NEEDED item, as I had never come across one of these before.  Not really concerned with the extra HP (if any) as this vehicle is only for running around town a bit...never intend to make it 'show worthy'.  It's a tribute to my late brother.  Just want to get it back on the road again.  And, BTW, here in NC, unless I have a title (which I don't, only a real old registration from the state of Vermont), I have to apply for a title and have an actual PERSON come see the car to certify it IS a car....one of the many ridiculous laws in NC---the worse one I think is that every year vehicles (cars, trucks, boats, motorcycles, RV's etc) are taxed...they call it something like 'road tax'---ridiculous---wish I owned property in FL and registered all my vehicles (5) there.)

 

EDIT:  Actually, it is a property tax everyone must pay, just like on a house.  My RV costs close to 800 yearly (older, gets less).

Edited December 11, 2020 by Mac McFarland

[Dodgeb4ya]

Put it it the very back of a drawer for the next person to ask what it is.

I would not use it.

[Mac McFarland]

Rationale?

[Mac McFarland]

So, still waiting on cable.  But, in the meantime....ANOTHER situation with this Plymouth.  

 

I have to replace a wheel cylinder (driver rear), so I have to (I believe) remove the brake drum (unless the cylinder can be removed without taking off the drum).  But, if I DO have to remove the drum (and probably will have to be able to do so to maintain the brake system), will this puller do the trick?  (I've removed several brake drums on automobiles, but usually in the 50's - 60's era vehicles, and they didn't require a puller...the drum was separate, and would just need to hammer it loose (were not part of the HUB, so to speak).  But I think this Plymouth's is also what one would call the HUB, where I would need a puller.)

 

I tried Advance Auto (on-line) to see if I could rent one (free rentals there after deposit returned), but could not find one even close to being similar.

 

If this puller will come in handy in the future for brake maintenance, let me know, and I will probably purchase.  Have looked for images of '34 Plymouth brake drums removed from a vehicle, but could not find...want to make sure the drum is an integral part of the hub.

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Mac McFarland

[Frank Elder]

19 hours ago, Mac McFarland said:

Rationale?

because it is just a gimmick it doesn't do ANYTHING for the car just an unsubstantiated claim by a guy wanting to make a buck.

Kind of like that spray for men with bald spots.

[TodFitch]

4 hours ago, Mac McFarland said:

So, still waiting on cable.  But, in the meantime....ANOTHER situation with this Plymouth.  

 

I have to replace a wheel cylinder (driver rear), so I have to (I believe) remove the brake drum (unless the cylinder can be removed without taking off the drum).  But, if I DO have to remove the drum (and probably will have to be able to do so to maintain the brake system), will this puller do the trick?  (I've removed several brake drums on automobiles, but usually in the 50's - 60's era vehicles, and they didn't require a puller...the drum was separate, and would just need to hammer it loose (were not part of the HUB, so to speak).  But I think this Plymouth's is also what one would call the HUB, where I would need a puller.)

 

I tried Advance Auto (on-line) to see if I could rent one (free rentals there after deposit returned), but could not find one even close to being similar.

 

If this puller will come in handy in the future for brake maintenance, let me know, and I will probably purchase.  Have looked for images of '34 Plymouth brake drums removed from a vehicle, but could not find...want to make sure the drum is an integral part of the hub.

 

Looks like the puller I use on my '33. But. . . I‘ve heard that some of the new ones are not of the highest quality and can break. If you can find an older American made tool you may want to go for that instead.

[Cannuck]

I bought the same Universal hub puller as you are thinking about buying . It worked just fine .

[keithb7]

Be aware, even with a decent puller, these drums can be a bear to move. Keep at it. Stay out of the line of fire. Turn the nut around on the axle shaft and twist it back on, leaving a little gap showing for the hub to move. That's all it needs to break free.  Then you can stop it from going flying if it pops off hard and fast under great stress.

[Mac McFarland]

yes, thx keithb7---i've seen some warnings from others and you-tube examples.  at least I know the hub/drum is one assembly (that's what "I" call it anyway).  I DO assume my brother had had these drums off as he was rebuilding it.  (A little history on this car I'd like to share:  In the late '60's I bought it from the father of a close HS friend.  It was lowered on the frame, and I don't THINK it even had fenders nor hood (can't recall).  But I wanted it so I paid a whopping $90 for it.  Unfortunately, off to college, and I ended up selling it for BIG profit (sold it for $100!----~smile~).  Anyway, my brother and one of my brothers-in-law back then wanted it (I didn't know), so they found who I had sold it to and bought it back (no idea what they paid).  Then, over the years they worked together to get it back in as close as original as they could.  Raised it back on the frame where it is supposed to be, added tons of stuff, and finally finished it in the 80's.  My brother-in-law moved from VT to VA and sold out his half to my brother, who completed the project.  Then, in 2002, my brother was murdered, and the car went to his only child, a daughter.  She had no interest in keeping it except for sentimental value.  Eventually (2011) she sold the car to me with the caveat not to sell outside of the family, for 5K.  So, essentially, I am RENTING it from her for 5K.  One day, it failed to start (sometimes the starter would operate, and the engine would not fire, and sometimes the starter would not turn over.)  So, here I am now, about 8 years after it failed to start, wanting to get it running again.  I think, because of ya'll, I will have the starter not-turning solved when I get the new battery cable.  Then, I just have to make sure I have spark, gas and air, and it should be running again.  But then, brakes, and some other minor things to fix.

 

Have to replace one of the (steel?) brake lines going to that driver rear wheel cylinder (a few years ago, before I obtained the car, my nephew cut and crimped off that line (from the T to the cylinder) so that the bad cylinder would not keep leaking).  Of course, over the years, the crimped off line DID obviously leak, as the master cylinder is now bone-dry.  I am assuming any auto parts store will have some steel (or copper---which should I use?) line and connectors.  Still got so much to do on this car...gotta make sure old gas in tank is drained before I attempt to start it next week.  I think it has a small water leak at the water pump...definitely not the radiator as it is still full after I put in antifreeze about 7-8 years ago when I put it in my shed for storage.  Just another thing to do.

 

 

[Sniper]

The copper line is actually cupro-nickel, it is easier to bend and form than steel lines as well as more corrosion resistant.  Lots of OEM's use it for brake lines as do I.

 

 

[TodFitch]

1 hour ago, Sniper said:

The copper line is actually cupro-nickel, it is easier to bend and form than steel lines as well as more corrosion resistant.  Lots of OEM's use it for brake lines as do I.

In the 1920s Chrysler used copper for brake tubing. By the time my 1933 was built they had changed to steel. And, at least for the cars I've owned, steel brake lines were standard in American built cars into at least the 1990s.

 

Starting sometime in, I think, the 1980s or 90s a copper-nickel alloy tubing started being used for brake lines. First I heard about it was on European cars. The advantage of the copper-nickel alloy is that it is much more resistant to corrosion. Standard DOT3 brake fluid absorbs moisture so steel brake lines can rust from the inside out as well as the outside in.

 

I think the best to use is the copper-nickel lines specifically manufactured for brake use. If you are going to use DOT5 brake fluid which doesn’t absorb water and you are not driving on salted roads, then steel would be okay. But stay away from the hardware store copper tubing: It will work harden with age and be prone to failure. In addition to not being rated for the working pressure needed, etc.

[Sniper]

I was referring to the stuff used today for brakes, please no one use copper lines, just steel or cupro-nickel (also called nickel copper).  You can buy a roll of it from RockAuto for a reasonable price.

 

https://www.rockauto.com/en/tools/hoses/lines+&+clamps,hydraulic+line,hydraulic+line,1001908

[Mac McFarland]

Does anyone have an idea of the tubing diameter for the 34 Plymouth PE Coupe?  I'll be Googling, but you guys seem to be the experts....

[Mac McFarland]

Found it to be 1/4 inch...also found the 1934-1936 Plymouth Original Master Repair Shop Manual for $99.  Probably well worth it.

[Mac McFarland]

oops, found a reprint for $25