electric fuel pump

[DJK]

While my seats are out to the upholstery shop, been thinking about an electric fuel pump, still 6v pos grnd. Was watching Graveyard Carz during lunch today and saw a fuel vapor separator used on early big blocks. 5/16 inlet, 5/16 outlet along w/ 1/4 outlet for fuel return to tank. My thoughts are: no need for pressure regulator and fuel will be cooler due to constant circulation. I will remove the mechanical pump. My thoughts are to wire it thru a relay which is grounded thru a Ford inertia switch(in case of an accident). What do you guys and girls think? Here is a link to the separator(hopefully)!!!

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/68-69-70-71-B-Body-E-Body-440-426-Hemi-Vapor-Separator-Charger-Cuda-GTX-Mopar-/202304823663

:

[Sam Buchanan]

I think you are considering increasing the complexity of the fuel system four-fold.   

 

The relay is unnecessary, as is the separator. The inertia switch is a bit controversial, I ran an electric pump in the P15 for a year without the switch, and still have second thoughts about it after I installed it....just something else to fail. Not sure an engine fire is our biggest risk in a car that has no passenger crash protection........

 

All you need to make your car run nicely is a mechanical fuel pump block-off plate, an electric pump, some wire and a fuse.  The other items are wants. ?

Edited June 16, 2020 by Sam Buchanan

[DJK]

Sam, do you use a pressure regulator?

[Sam Buchanan]

2 hours ago, DJK said:

Sam, do you use a pressure regulator?

 

No regulator. I've never measured the pressure of the 6v Carter pump but there are no indications of any pressure issues, the carb seems to be happy.

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Sam Buchanan

[DJK]

Thanks Sam. After 45 yrs of turning wrenches on Nissan's, I tend to over think and complicate things. Rebuilt the carb today, inlet leaked(put original back in) no leak, also acc. pump wouldn't squirt. Instructions said to apply 2 drops of oil to leather and let the oil and gas do their work, I was impatient and put the original back in, nice squirt now,

[Sniper]

On those leather accelerator pumps, first thing I do it out them in light oil and let them soak while I do the rebuild, by the time I am ready for it, it's ready for work.

[DJK]

Good to know Sniper, I'll keep the new one just in case.

[KurtisL]

Sam, where did you splice the new pump wires onto? It looks like you are below the frame and box? Did you find the fuel sending unit wire to connect it? I need to put a pump on my 38 Plymouth.  Kurt

 

[Sam Buchanan]

18 minutes ago, KurtisL said:

Sam, where did you splice the new pump wires onto? It looks like you are below the frame and box? Did you find the fuel sending unit wire to connect it? I need to put a pump on my 38 Plymouth.  Kurt

 

 

Kurt, the power for the pump comes off the ignition switch. I put a 10a in-line fuse in the wire right at the switch. The wire penetrates the firewall where the wiring harness goes through then down to the frame rail and back to the pump which is located just forward of the rear axle. 

 

The other fuse you see in this photo is for the turn signals.

 

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Sam Buchanan

[Faulkner]

On 6/16/2020 at 6:51 PM, Sam Buchanan said:

All you need to make your car run nicely is a mechanical fuel pump block-off plate, an electric pump, some wire and a fuse.  The other items are wants. ?

 

Sam, I take it that it's not recommended to run a mechanical fuel pump in series with an electric?  What is the reason, if not - and if not, where might I get a block-off plate for a 230?

 

adTHANKSvance,

Dan

[Plymouthy Adams]

blanking plate is a simple item to make in your shop....

[desoto1939]

If you are going to only run an electric fuel pump then I would consider the shut value in case of an accident becasue if the electric circuit is still active and the ignition was not urned off then the pump will still push gas up the line.

 

I still use the mechanical pump on my 39 desoto but have the electric pump installed as backup and mainly for priming the carb after the car has sat for a period of time.

 

You can have both on the car and use the mechanical as the primary and the electric as a backup incase the mechanical fails.  I do not like to depend 100% on the electrical pump for everyday usage. By having both at least you have one pump that is working and the other as backup.

 

Just my input.

Rich Hartung 

[Faulkner]

1 hour ago, desoto1939 said:

If you are going to only run an electric fuel pump then I would consider the shut value in case of an accident becasue if the electric circuit is still active and the ignition was not urned off then the pump will still push gas up the line.

 

I still use the mechanical pump on my 39 desoto but have the electric pump installed as backup and mainly for priming the carb after the car has sat for a period of time.

 

You can have both on the car and use the mechanical as the primary and the electric as a backup incase the mechanical fails.  I do not like to depend 100% on the electrical pump for everyday usage. By having both at least you have one pump that is working and the other as backup.

 

Just my input.

Rich Hartung 

 

I've read in this thread that folks add a switch for priming, which they turn off after the car has started.  This seems like a reasonable idea to me - wouldn't that obviate the need for a shutoff valve?  And, if I place the electrical pump at the tank, would the mechanical pump still draw through the electrical when it's powered off?  (I already have power available at the rear anyway, to power a 6-to-12 V converter for my backup camera; I would just add a separate inline fuse - and then run back a wire to ground the pump with a dash switch.)

[1950 Special Deluxe]

I have my 6 volt electric pump plumbed inline with the mechanical pump.

It is located on the frame in front of the fuel tank just in front of the rear axle.

It is wired to a push button that I need to hold in to prime the engine, then I remove my finger and the mechanical pump draws thru the electric pump.

[Sam Buchanan]

2 hours ago, Faulkner said:

 

Sam, I take it that it's not recommended to run a mechanical fuel pump in series with an electric?  What is the reason, if not - and if not, where might I get a block-off plate for a 230?

 

adTHANKSvance,

Dan

 

Why keep the mechanical pump if you have electric? The reason for going electric is to eliminate the mechanical pump.  ?

 

I have more confidence in the Carter electric pump pushing fuel from the tank in full-time use than the antique mechanical pump trying to suck fuel all the way to the engine.....

 

The block-off plate is just a piece of 1/8" steel, use your old mechanical pump as a template to make the plate. Add a gasket and use the original pump bolts to install.

 

In regard to priming.....this is a non-issue. By the time you move your hands from the key to the push-to-start switch the carb bowl is full.

 

The installation of an inertia collision shut-off switch is sorta controversial because it introduces a single-point of failure in an otherwise very reliable electric pump system. I ran electric for a year with no reservations until some here on the forum shamed me into adding a collision switch. I still think it is sorta silly in our old cars since all that is needed in a minor collision is to reach over and turn off the ignition to kill the pump. In a major catastrophic crash who knows what condition the uncrashworthy old Mopar and its occupants will be in......the shutoff switch may be a moot point.

 

But I ran the switch on a test light circuit for several weeks, didn't see any false triggers so added it to the pump circuit. The switch is a magnetic Ford device mounted on the firewall where I can easily reset it or unplug it to restore power to the pump if it fails.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-OEM-Inertia-Switch-5L2Z9341A/233501072656?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by Sam Buchanan

[desoto1939]

Sam:  I do see you points abound only using an electrical FP.  But if this is the only FP that you have and your battery dies on a trip then you are dead in the water and can not go anywhere. I had a wire come loos and broke on a volt regulator but was able to limp home and then discovered the broken wire but so long as the engine was running and via the use of the mechanical pump I was able to get fuel to the engine.

 

We all hopefuly are not speed crazy so the amount of fuel being sent to the carb is not the pbm. it is the weather the owner wants two systems to pump fuel or not. Mechanical standalone or electrical Standalone or a combination of both for added security.

 

So it is a personal choice to how each owner wants to proceed. This is why we have the forum so people can express their thought and everyone can make up their own decision.

 

Rich Hartung

 

 

[Sam Buchanan]

5 hours ago, desoto1939 said:

Sam:  I do see you points abound only using an electrical FP.  But if this is the only FP that you have and your battery dies on a trip then you are dead in the water and can not go anywhere. I had a wire come loos and broke on a volt regulator but was able to limp home and then discovered the broken wire but so long as the engine was running and via the use of the mechanical pump I was able to get fuel to the engine.

 

We all hopefuly are not speed crazy so the amount of fuel being sent to the carb is not the pbm. it is the weather the owner wants two systems to pump fuel or not. Mechanical standalone or electrical Standalone or a combination of both for added security.

 

So it is a personal choice to how each owner wants to proceed. This is why we have the forum so people can express their thought and everyone can make up their own decision.

 

Rich Hartung

 

 

 

Rich,

 

There are numerous scenarios where a single failure will put the car on the side of the road regardless of what systems are in use (broken distributor, broken U-joint, blown out radiator, stuck thermostat, etc, etc, etc, hey....running out of gas!)).  I carry a AAA card so I can call for the flatbed.

 

Your single-point of failure is that you still have a voltage regulator instead of a reliable alternator.  ?

 

Yes, it is personal choice, but electric is functionally superior. The only sound argument for a mechanical pump is if an owner wants to retain originality.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Sam Buchanan

[JBNeal]

5 hours ago, Faulkner said:

...where might I get a block-off plate for a 230?

 

additional information - Fuel Pump Block-Off Plate 

[Phillip McCart]

What about return lines? Is there ever a reason to construct a fuel return line to the fuel tank in order to reduce the pressure? My 56 Dodge 315ci works fine with my electric fuel pump (and no return line) but the hose sure seems to bulge a bit right where it enters the carb. 

[Sniper]

1 hour ago, Phillip McCart said:

What about return lines? Is there ever a reason to construct a fuel return line to the fuel tank in order to reduce the pressure? My 56 Dodge 315ci works fine with my electric fuel pump (and no return line) but the hose sure seems to bulge a bit right where it enters the carb. 

 

Well, one of us is going EFI with a return system.  For a carb setup. no I don't think you will need a return line.

[Sam Buchanan]

1 hour ago, Phillip McCart said:

What about return lines? Is there ever a reason to construct a fuel return line to the fuel tank in order to reduce the pressure? My 56 Dodge 315ci works fine with my electric fuel pump (and no return line) but the hose sure seems to bulge a bit right where it enters the carb. 

 

No return line needed for a carb engine. There must be something wrong with your fuel hose if it bulges with 3 psi.......

[kencombs]

17 hours ago, Phillip McCart said:

What about return lines? Is there ever a reason to construct a fuel return line to the fuel tank in order to reduce the pressure? My 56 Dodge 315ci works fine with my electric fuel pump (and no return line) but the hose sure seems to bulge a bit right where it enters the carb. 

Well, in some circumstances it can be used.  In my case I'll be using a scavenged GM fuel tank with an internal pump intended for throttle body fuel injection.  So, it's output pressure would overwhelm a float and needle valve in the carb.  It needs a regulator and the best regulators have a return line.  Since the pump is in the tank, the regulator and very short return line will be near the tank.

 

I chose this route due to the fact that I have the tank, the pump is a unit that is available just about anywhere off the shelf and I think it will work.  I'll know on that last sometime later this year.  Admittedly, the chosen regulator type is expensive, compared to simpler models, but are superior IMO.

[Faulkner]

I bought this Brock U886-9092 electric fuel pump for my + ground, 6V '54 Plymouth.  It came with no instructions, and calling Brock did not help - they can't advise.  (!)

 

Has anyone used this pump?  I have a couple of questions...

 

1)  What's the doodad I've circled in red - is it a check valve?  Does in go on the input side, or the output side of the pump?

 

2) I was told that it's for either +/- ground - I presume from this, the two wires are isolated from the housing.  Can someone confirm?

 

adTHANKSvance,

Dan

[Sam Buchanan]

The doodad is a filter, put it on the tank side of the pump.

 

Put an ohmmeter across the each wire and the pump housing, no continuity indicates the wires are floating free of the housing. If this is for either polarity I'm sure that will be the case.

[desoto1939]

If you have a positive ground car the connection from the pump will be that the positive wire will be the grounding wire  and the negative wire on the pump will be the hot wire to supply electric to the pump.  The pump should be placed as far back as close to the gas tank as possible. These pumps are of the pusher style and not the pulling style like a mechanical pump like what is on your engine block.  I run an electric as a backup to my mechanical pump.

 

Rich Hartung