Engine builders

[lonejacklarry]

I am looking for an engine builder for my 230 inline 6.  Every engine has a few things that are different from other styles and I'm curious as to the little things that makes for a successful rebuild.

 

I've gathered parts such as an oil pump, WDT, timing chain and sprockets, etc.  I plan on delivering the block with crank,pistons, cam, and valves intact along with a shop manual.  Depending on the machine work required I can then source under/oversize bearing, pistons, etc.

 

The question:  What is different or a must do for these engines?  I'm referring to the little stuff that is esoteric to this engine that may or may not need done to the average small block Chevy.

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[P15-D24]

Exhaust/valve guide position (They alternate)

Replace water distribution tube

Make sure the timing chain oiler tube is installed

Rods are offset, make sure the order is correct.

Make sure the block is fully flushed with all freeze plugs pulled (including the ones at the back of the block)

Replace the cam bearings

Make sure cam/oil pump is installed correctly so timing is correct. 

Don't trim the oil pan gaskets

Don't forget to install the rubber gaskets at the front and rear mains.  

Distributor has a gasket going into the block (Sometimes an "O" ring is used)

Make sure the oil pressure relief valve is installed correct and works correctly. 

Pre pressurize the oil system before before first start (Assembly lube is gone after 1 or 2 revolutions.)

Replace valve seats as needed, exhaust seats are hardened. 

Triple grind valves, no lapping needed. 

If front crankshaft hub sealing surface is worn, speed-sleeve it so it won't leak. 

[P15-D24]

Also when installing pistons be sure to follow the manufacture's instructions carefully regarding ring order and rotational orientation of each ring on the piston.

[JBNeal]

additional information - Flathead Rebuild Information

Edited October 16, 2019 by JBNeal
revised link

[Plymouthy Adams]

15 hours ago, lonejacklarry said:

  I plan on delivering the block with crank,pistons, cam, and valves intact along with a shop manual.  Depending on the machine work required I can then source under/oversize bearing, pistons, etc.

 

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

it would be hard to guess what the machine will find on the boring of the cylinders and what exact size you will be needing...same with the crank.....will it need undercutting and if so will it be both main and rod journals....unfortunately this where the shop will have to give you the specs and then either let them source the parts or let you get them, especially the slugs as the final hone will be for the pistons supplied unless they like most shops will await arrival of base oversize for the final hone fit....talk with your builder.....they may or may not agree to your proposed plan   

Edited December 31, 2018 by Plymouthy Adams

[lonejacklarry]

3 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

....talk with your builder.....they may or may not agree to your proposed plan   

 

Thanks for that information.  And thanks to the other contributions to my winter engine project.  All is good advice particularly the "gotcha" section.  If there is an error to be made I am usually the culprit.

[lonejacklarry]

On 12/31/2018 at 12:26 PM, Plymouthy Adams said:

 

 ....they may or may not agree to your proposed plan   

 

Well, not only did he agree he suggested that I source the items after he told me what was needed.  I delivered the engine with rotating parts intact this a.m. and will wait until he tells me what I need.

 

Rereading the rebuild hints (thanks, again, to all that responded) I found an item that I don't understand. 

 

Would someone explain how the oil pump is correctly timed with the cam?

[DJ194950]

1 hour ago, lonejacklarry said:

Would someone explain how the oil pump is correctly timed with the cam?

It is well covered in the Mopar flat 6 era of repair manuals.

 

Easier to say that than the full reply on the forum.

But if someone has the extra time and types fast (I do Not), then please do.

 

Not trying to be an ass, but still trying to help, hope you understand. ?

 

DJ

[lonejacklarry]

30 minutes ago, DJ194950 said:

 Not trying to be an ass, but still trying to help, hope you understand. ?

 

 

I understand completely.

[Plymouthy Adams]

the oil pump is correctly timed with the cam when the cam and crank gear is positioned TDC #1 on compression stroke and the drive groove for the distributor is a line between 7 o'clock and 1 o'clock…..this allows you to drop the distributor into the block as display all the factory documentation and index figures as pictured in the book....

[Los_Control]

Issues with not installing as the manual describes.

 

I pulled my distributor out for maintenance, because whoever before me did not install the oil pump as it should be, my wires are one turn counter clockwise on the cap, then what they should be.

Maybe not a big deal to some, but when you go in reading the manual and end up having to guess at spark plug wires to get it to run .... gets frustrating .

 

If you do not follow the manual, you will be doing the same to get it running.

 

Edited February 2, 2019 by Los_Control

[lonejacklarry]

On 2/1/2019 at 6:41 PM, Plymouthy Adams said:

  as display all the factory documentation and index figures as pictured in the book....

 

I get it that you are suggesting I should get "the book" as have others before you.  I have "the book" and, quite simply, did not understand it.  That is why I asked for suggestions.

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

no I explained the process in a manner one did not need the book and made reference to the fact that once established by this process, you will be correct with the book........but do I recommend having the book, as a throw back to the past, you bet your sweet bippy I do

[Dodgeb4ya]

This is one thing few take note of....

Make sure the floating oil pick up is cleaned of sludge and debris... spot less. Will require removal of the lower metal cover to check.

Also check for proper oil pick up float max rise and drop.

There are two metal tangs that can get bent and change the factory float that limit max rise and drop.

Too much rise... the oil PU float can suck air...seen this several times.

Too much drop... not so critical....just don't let it rest on the metal of the pan or you will hear a humming noise from the pump gears.

The PU screen shown below was supposedly thoroughly cleaned (hot tanked) by a big long established machine shop of over 50 years.

You have to take the metal lower baffle plate off to see how much effort will be needed to get it 100% clean.

I chose to remove the screen. Easier, quicker than solvents, purple power etc.

 

Edited February 11, 2019 by Dodgeb4ya
More Description

[JBNeal]

...and take care when cleaning decades of crud off of that thin screen as ham-fisted attempts can rip the screen out of the pickup head, requiring questionable improvisation techniques to repair ?

[Dodgeb4ya]

I have taken the screens out to clean this issue area...

Tedious but do-able

[kencombs]

I've got a 'mini hot tank' for cleaning small difficult parts.  A commercial grade two element countertop stove and a stainless buffet container.  It's about 12 x 24 and 6 inches deep.  Water and a lot of purple power or simple green and a long soak/simmer on the stove followed by a good good hot water rinse gets everything spotless.

 

rods, bolts, oil pickup etc get dropped in that and makes quick work of prep.

 

On really tough things, I add some lye.  But, that's getting hard to find as all the stores have it under lock and key.  Seems it's part of a meth recipe.

[ggdad1951]

...or hiding the bodies...

[lonejacklarry]

On 2/1/2019 at 6:41 PM, Plymouthy Adams said:

the oil pump is correctly timed with the cam when the cam and crank gear is positioned TDC #1 on compression stroke and the drive groove for the distributor is a line between 7 o'clock and 1 o'clock…..this allows you to drop the distributor into the block as display all the factory documentation and index figures as pictured in the book....

 

OK, I just have to plead stupid.  I can get as far as I understand the cam and crank at TDC on compression stroke.  I also understand that the marks on the timing gears need to align with themselves But at TDC on the compression stroke.  I also understand the drive groove lining up, etc.  So then the distributor drop in where it is supposed to be.  OK, so far, so good.

 

Density alert:  What does any of this have to do with the oil pump and why do I care if the pump is correcctly timed?  It is a geared pump so why does it care how it drops in?  While I'm not looking to continue to flog the dead horse, I would appreciate a little help.  Thanks.

[JBNeal]

It's all about timing:  the mechanical timing of the cam, the distributor and the crankshaft is crucial to develop maximum power during ignition...any variation of the timing will greatly reduce engine efficiency which may include termination of ignition...timing can be thought of as the foundation of engine power, as improper timing will result in vastly reduced power

[kencombs]

• The pump drives the distributor using a slot and tang arrangement.  You can actually put it any way you want.  Then you have to hunt for the rotor/plug relationship.  Your  spark plug wires will likely not be in the correct hole location .  Also you may not  able to easily rotate the distributor body to make final adjustments in timing without a hassle.

When the pump slot in in the correct orientation, the distributor will drop in in the location pictured in the manual.  Makes maintenance, assembly and life in general so much easier if one follows the book.

[Plymouthy Adams]

1 hour ago, lonejacklarry said:

 

OK, I just have to plead stupid.  I can get as far as I understand the cam and crank at TDC on compression stroke.  I also understand that the marks on the timing gears need to align with themselves But at TDC on the compression stroke.  I also understand the drive groove lining up, etc.  So then the distributor drop in where it is supposed to be.  OK, so far, so good.

 

Density alert:  What does any of this have to do with the oil pump and why do I care if the pump is correcctly timed?  It is a geared pump so why does it care how it drops in?  While I'm not looking to continue to flog the dead horse, I would appreciate a little help.  Thanks.

 

don't plead stupid, you have to just get your head around the fact that the oil pump is what aligns to the cam and is what drives the distributor.....the procedure is to correctly index the oil pump so the  slot for the distributor drive is aligned 7 to 1.  The process of how to align and engage the oil pump for proper indexing first time every time is also in the book.

[thisoldtruck]

Here's a picture of the oil pump.  The drive gear is attached to it and the distributor slot shaft slips into the top. 

[MackTheFinger]

In his first post Larry mentioned small block Chevy motors. In those the oil pump is driven by the distributor, different from the Mopar L-head. I'm sure that's what he was thinking about vis-a-vis oil pump timing.

[Radarsonwheels]

 

4 hours ago, Plymouthy Adams said:

 

don't plead stupid, you have to just get your head around the fact that the oil pump is what aligns to the cam and is what drives the distributor.....the procedure is to correctly index the oil pump so the  slot for the distributor drive is aligned 7 to 1.  The process of how to align and engage the oil pump for proper indexing first time every time is also in the book.

Now I am confused too.

 

Why does the motor care which wire on the distributor is for the #1 sparkplug as long as the wires are put in the proper firing order? The pump is constantly spun whenever the crank spins, as does the rotor in the distributor cap and the cam for the points breaker right? Am I missing something or did I always just get lucky?

 

I never met a motor that wouldn’t fire and time with the rotor aimed at just before the tower for the #1 plug on it’s compression tdc.

 

I can say that on a slant 6 there is only so much adjustment slotted into the distributor hold-down before you need to go underneath to loosen the slotted plate and spin it.

 

On a smallblock LA the distributor is driven with a slot so it can only stab in right or 180 out on a running motor. You can pull the oil pump drive and re-index the slot though just like pulling the whole gear driven distributor in a slant 6. The amount of adjustment on them is 360° but a vacuum can on a stocker can start to get in the way in some positions. 

 

On some motors the oil passages to different areas like the top end on some degrees of rotation. Maybe it’s something like that?

 

I have worked on my old 230 but never built one up fresh and not for a few years other than plugs oil and tune-ups. I certainly am not trying to be a know it all or take exception to your doing it the way it was intended by the manufacturer- just throwing ideas out there trying to understand.

 

radar