Split Ring Tire Question

[Goddom]

I was lucky and my work has a bunch of 9.00-20 rims/tires laying around that came off an old deuce and a half. That is the same tires size I have on my dump truck and so I picked them up for free and plan to use the tires (the rims are not the right size) on my truck. However, my truck doesn't have split ring wheels any more and someone told me the tires won't work on a tubeless rims. I will have to check but I think the current tires I have are tubed, so I am not sure that I have a tubeless rim, but they aren't split ring. 

 

Does anyone have anyone know if these tires will work on my rims? 

[greg g]

Around here most every tire shop even those for large trucks will not touch split rims jobs.  Maybe removal of tires is not the dangerous part but I had a friend who tried a dozens or more places and he ended up getting new rims. If you have an American Historical Truck Club chapter in your area perhaps some of those folks know who might be able to assist with your project.

[Los_Control]

1 hour ago, Goddom said:

9.00-20 rims/tires

20 is the rim size, that tells everyone they are tube type rims, same with a 22" rim.

A 19.5, or 22.5, 24.5 these are tubeless truck wheels. They are not split ring and a solid one piece wheel.

 

If you still have 20" rims on your truck, good chance they will fit. If you have anything else, they wont fit.

1 hour ago, Goddom said:

my truck doesn't have split ring wheels any more and someone told me the tires won't work on a tubeless rims.

I would agree with this guy, but need to know what size exactly you now have on your truck.

[kencombs]

A couple of good closer pics of you wheels would help clear this up.   I've had some experience with older 20" truck wheels.  But, I've never seen a 20 that wasn't lock ring. All the drop center wheels I've encountered were tubeless, 1/2" sized.

BTW,  the lock ring type are not all that dangerous, IF all the components, ring wheel and outer rim are clean and rust-free.  But, I'd still air them in a cage.  The other locking type, two piece wheels on the other hand are killers.

Edited December 3, 2018 by kencombs

[Goddom]

I know very little about split rim and truck tires so all this info has been helpful.  Here are some close up pics of my wheels/tires.  The tires say they are 9.00-20 but the rims didn't look like split rings. As you can see the tires are pretty badly cracked and need to be replaced. I don't want to fill them completely or load the truck to much until then.

 

 

Here is the outside of the rim. The inside of the rim is pictured below. 

 

[Goddom]

Here are the "new" tires. 

 

A shop near me busted the tires off the rims for me. One was destroyed because of rust on the rim. But the other 3 looked OK. 

 

[Los_Control]

I really cant see well enough from the photos, your wheels are either a one piece split ring. This means it is a solid ring with no split, actually a little bit oval shaped and has notches to use pry bars to remove.

Very old school and you may not find someone to change them.

 

Or they really look like true widow makers to me.

The back side of the wheel is a ridge, and the wheels actually separate into two pieces from the middle. These were very dangerous when they were new, if they are old and any rust they are suicide to work on.

They earned the name widow maker for a reason.

 

The military wheels have a nice wide lock ring on the front and they have a split in them. Is a common wheel and pretty sure still in use today.

With them apart you can see how they attach to the wheel.

I can not tell from your photo if the red side of your wheel, has a ridge for a solid ring to hook to. If they do, you may be able to go to a truck stop and get them changed.

With the fresh paint, they look solid to me and why I think they are widow makers. But it could just be the paint.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Here is the dangerous widow wheel as mentioned above.. used mainly on 40's 50's Fords ... center lock ring

[Dodgeb4ya]

And the type the old 40's early 50's dodge medium duty 5 or 6 bolt trucks used,... side split ring as shown... much easier and safer to deal with if serviced right and not rusty...

[Goddom]

I was reading up on the widow maker and it freaked me out because I aired up these wheels and they were saying you shouldn't do that unless you are a professional. I will take a closer look at them tonight and try and take some better pictures. 

 

The "new" tires had the split ring so I know what those look like. That split rim sounds terrifying to me. 

[Los_Control]

The worst part about the widow maker,  is a visual inspection, you just cant visually tell if they are properly locked in position. You relying on feel and sound, and a hope and a prayer.

I have seen old timers put these wheels together, take their time and they really know what they are doing.  Wheel lying flat on ground, they put a few pounds air in it and monitor the middle where it locks together .... if one side lifts higher then the other, you let the air back out and smack it some more with a hammer. When you get 5 pounds air in it and all is equal,  you move it to a cage and finish airing it up.

 

One time they got the tire completely aired up, He was standing behind the wheel pushing it out and he was now inside the cage, and the wheel let loose outside the cage.

He naturally stood up and jumped back when the tire came apart, knocked himself out with his head on the cage.

At this time, I was running a service truck for the tire shop, 18 years old and fixing semi truck tires out on the highway. I did not know how to change these wheels and always brought them back to the shop to be fixed. The example above with the wheel coming apart out of the cage, that was the last widow maker our company worked on.

That was 38 years ago in Las Vegas NV, most other shops already stopped working on them also.

Just a stupid design to begin with.

 

As a general rule, if the wheel is low on air, probably safe to air it up. Is safer if it is bolted down on the truck, If the tire was flat and rolled around on the truck flat, I would not attempt to air it up.

 

Where with the split ring, you can look and see you got them right where you want them. You air them up to 10 pounds or so, use your BFG on the ring and see it is set properly, then air it up. Is only when kids get careless and use rusted or bent parts or not pay attention that they get hurt on these wheels.

[MBF]

The rims in your photo look like split rims that someone has cobbled together.  I wouldn't use them, and I'd be careful on 9" wide tires on a 6.75 locking ring rim. 

[Dodgeb4ya]

I do all my own truck wheels outside...

But I either carefully wind a heavy chain through the hand holes and secure the ends with a good strong bolt or two and hook.

Then use a clip on tire inflater so I can stay back from the tire as I fill it a bit as mentioned maybe 10 lbs... bang on the ring a little to watch and make sure it's gap is closed all the way around and the end gap is closed.

Then finish filling it up.

Thses days I use a backhoe front bucket to cover the tire as it's filling up.

Rust and bent or damaged rings are a BIG NO NO

[Brent B3B]

23 minutes ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

...........Thses days I use a backhoe front bucket to cover the tire as it's filling up.

Rust and bent or damaged rings are a BIG NO NO

i miss my backhoe!! i am reduced to a Bobcat

[Dodgeb4ya]

That-A- Boy Brent! Stem up?

[Dave72dt]

Those wheels with the red and the extra plates on them are NOT the ones you want to use.  Those are the split rims you want to avoid.  There is no other reason for those plates bolted to the rim other than someone trying to convince themselves they were now safe to use.  Split ring and split rim are often thought of as the same style rim.  They are not.  Years ago, 3/4 ton and up pickups often got a split ring as well, but they were always even number sizes and always had a tube.  Tubeless were an option, starting with 16.5's and up, always with the .5.  Get a nail in a tube type, tire goes flat right away.

 

Whatever you do with those "new" tires, don't attempt tp put them on tubeless or on the old rims.

[classiccarjack]

8 hours ago, Goddom said:

I was reading up on the widow maker and it freaked me out because I aired up these wheels and they were saying you shouldn't do that unless you are a professional. I will take a closer look at them tonight and try and take some better pictures. 

 

The "new" tires had the split ring so I know what those look like. That split rim sounds terrifying to me. 

When I was in the Army, and if I didn't have access to a safety cage to inflate the split rims, I would then inflate them with the ring facing down while putting all my weight on the back side.  That way if it popped off, the ring wouldn't hit me and get trapped between the tire and the ground.  I changed many tires and never had one issue.  But they are scary until the rim seats with the tire...

 

I think that I will weld a safety cage together, so when I change the tires on my 1937 1.5Ton, I won't be terrified...

[Dodgeb4ya]

Look what happens to a safety cage on U-Tube when a large truck tire comes apart......it can bend the cage apart.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Dodgeb4ya

[ggdad1951]

so..if I read this right...since I've never actually (to my knowledge) seen a split rim...the ring that flies off is on the BACK side of the rim (towards the vehicle)?  Makes the most sense if it fails on the road it wouldn't fly off into traffic.

[Goddom]

So the rims on my truck (the rusty and red one above) are either a lock ring with no split, or a locking rim? It looks like it may be a locking rim because of those flanges and bolts?  That is only on one side. The other side doesn't have those. So I should probably get rid of these rims and get regular split rings, or solid wheels and tubeless tires?

[Los_Control]

Regular split rims like the military tires came with would be good, am sure any truck stop that fixes tires would change them.

 

Get a set of chrome 19.5 with low profile michelins, you would be driving that truck daily  but not cheap.

I would check local tire shops and see if they have anything used, you might even find another truck sitting in a field, buy it for the wheels and put yours on it and sell it off again.

 

I had a option , still do, to buy a 52 chevy 2 ton dump bed, rebuilt 235 for $600.

I would love to have the truck, was my wifes grandfathers, he built the dump on it .... been sitting for years and needs some work to be roadworthy. Just new tires and use the good wheels it has, would cost over $1000.

Tires and wheels for these old trucks are not cheap. I live in town and have no place to park it or a reason to use it.

But you see my point, I could buy that truck, take the wheels and sell the rest and get my money back plus change.

As far as I know, others can correct me, the bolt pattern on these old trucks within reason, still match the modern bolt patterns of today.

You just need to figure out what bolt pattern will interchange with yours, and others can help there.

I only know the pickup's bolt patterns.

 

[Dave72dt]

9 hours ago, ggdad1951 said:

so..if I read this right...since I've never actually (to my knowledge) seen a split rim...the ring that flies off is on the BACK side of the rim (towards the vehicle)?  Makes the most sense if it fails on the road it wouldn't fly off into traffic.

That only works if you have singles.  Duals on the rear means the outside wheel is not contained and they can come apart when putting the wheel on the truck as well..  When I worked at a tire dealership back in the early 70's, we saw some of the split rims.  Most tires were 1 and 2 piece ring style,  tubeless front flotation tires on the logging trucks and had stopped servicing the split rims I think about '75.  There may have been an OSHA warning sent out on them at that time.  I seem to recall that most of those rims we dealt with were on school buses.

[Charlie Stephenson]

See my avitar*  pick. 10 bolt on 20 inch split ring, I'm running 12 of them on 2 trucks. I've changed them, repaired them, exploded one, lived to share this, enter at your own risk. Charlie Stephenson

[Dodgeb4ya]

What saved your bacon on the one that got away from you?

[Plymouthy Adams]

worked a many split rims in my younger days.....we did not have a cage but always aired them up with the hydraulic lift arms over them...air them up......rough them up with big hammer to ensure the ring in place.....they have decapitated a good many people....glad they are NLA...