No spark

[desoto1939]

On 10/19/2016 at 10:01 PM, Wahoowins said:

1950 Plymouth with factory inline 6. No spark after coil. I have tested  the coil lead to ground and get a good spark with points open and bridging with a screwdriver. No spark from that point forward to any plugs. I'm going to presume the issue is with the distributor but don't know how to test it.  New coil, points condenser, plugs and wires. Points are gapped at .020. No signs of cap cracks. I've had a difficult time finding a mechanic locally who is willing to look at it since it doesn't come with a port for plugging in their diagnostic computer. Any advice on how to proceed with the diagnostics would be much appreciated.

If he is a mechanic by trade then he is only schooled in the modern cars.  Since this such a basic electrical system he should not have any problem workingon your car.  I would not take a modern car to him if he cannot work on simple cars.

 

Did you take the dizzy out of the engine?  What is th enumber on your tag on the dizzy. Need to know the IGS IAT-xxxxx number to let you know the correct points, cap rotor for your car.

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[Carl]

This is what I have.

[greg g]

Did you order the tune up parts by the distr number or year, make and model parts store script?  If you weren't asked for the IAT, IGS, or other number, your parts may not be compatible  several different distributors  were used across the years and modelscaps, points,and condensers are different.  Currently my 56 engine has a 54 icon distributors,  my backup is from a 52 Plymouth.  They are interchangeable between engines, but their tune up pieces are different.

The number is on the data tag on the distributor body it can't be read with the distributor n the engine unless you are 3 ft tall contortionist. 

[Carl]

I think they were ordered by year

[Kilgore47]

I sent you a text

[Carl]

58 minutes ago, Kilgore47 said:

I sent you a text

I didn’t get it

[Sniper]

7 hours ago, kencombs said:

See Plymouthy's post.  the red above is the exact opposite of my understanding.   High voltage is secondary, 12v is primary.  What is the definition in the ignition bible, whatever that is.    Just to clarify the discussion and not confuse me more

 

lol, you are right, in my defense it was 3 in the morning.  Teach me to post when I have insomnia

[desoto1939]

Here is the page from my  Autolite parts catalog and listed are the various autolite components that would be the replacement parts.

First you need to look for your year car then determin ethe correct dizzy model and that would be found onthe red tag attached to the body of the dizzy.

 

So as you can see there were various dizzy used in 1950.

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

 

 

 

[maok]

If you are getting good spark from the coil lead to ground, I am assuming you are referring to the high tension lead, then, you should be focusing on the rotor and cap. As been mention before, are they are matched unit?

[Carl]

I am not getting any spark to the points. I posted 2 pics of my distributor as it is wired now. It did have spark with the new parts. When I replaced the powe lead in the distributor is when I list spark to the distributor.

[Plymouthy Adams]

is your screw too long and going through and shorting this to ground.....are you even using an ohm meter here....if not....you wasting your time and most everyone here trying to help

[Kilgore47]

Carl - Go to the upper right hand side of the page and you will see an email symbol.  That's where the text will be

[kencombs]

I can't see the connections clearly in the pics as they don't show a direct view of the entire distributor body.  We need a straight view showing the entire interior in one shot.  But, it looks like the insulator where the connection passes through is cracked.  Is it shorting to ground at that point? 

 

a clear pic and explanation of your test process would help us help.  If you test the voltage at the coil + with the points open, what are the results?  Same when testing at the points moveable arm?  Then at the coil to distributor connection both inside and outside the body? 

[Carl]

I have power on the negative side of coil. I have no power on positive dive of coil. There is no power at the points. Should the power lead going to points be under the insulator?

[kencombs]

If your points are open when you test, there should be power at the coil + if the coil has continuity.  I really can't see your power lead in that last pic. think I see it at the connecting stud then it disappears under the condenser's flat copper strap.  I always install the power lead last, directly under the screw head. Point spring first, then condenser lead the power.  And route all wires to eliminate rubbing when the points plate moves under advance. Makes voltage/continuity tests much easier.  With the nut off the outside and the coil to distributor wire off, do you see voltage from the wire to ground?    With the screw out, and the power lead loose from the points, do you measure power from the lead to ground.?

 

If not, work back toward the coil until finding the last place you do have voltage.

 

I'm not sure what insulation you are referring too, but all connections must be metal to metal.

[Carl]

Thank you. I will try that tomorrow. You guys have been a big help. I’m going to figure this out eventually!

[desoto1939]

carl:  from the literature that I posted I would suggest that you look for a NOS complete breaker plate that has all of the components wired up. This way youjust have to unscrew the old one and then put the new one in. From looking at your pictures I think there is something not wired correctly.  Get  the NOS breaker plate and then you will be starting with a correct unit inthe dizzy.

 

You can find the breaker plates on ebay or contact one of mopar venders.

 

Get back to original something is totaly wired incorrectly.

 

Rich Hartung

[Tom Skinner]

Advise from Desoto1939. Best Advise!

[Carl]

Thanks desoto

[Los_Control]

Not sure if a picture of a dirty but working distributor would help, but here is mine.

Something just looks different with yours ... The copper strap on the condenser throws me off. Looks like it is actually touching the points , maybe that does not matter.

Also could just be the angle of the photo and a illusion.

I am no mechanic, but worked on all my own cars ... I can not remember ever seeing a condenser like that? I wonder where they were used.

Also in my photo you can see a jumper wire that connects the points to the connection on side of distributor from the coil.

Yours we can not see, looks like some black tape or cover there hiding it. Hard to say whats going on there.

 

 

[Dodgeb4ya]

Copper strap condenser for the flat heads.....very common after market part....including NAPA echlin.

[Los_Control]

Just now, Dodgeb4ya said:

Copper strap condenser for the flat heads.....very common after market part....including NAPA echlin.

Thanks for the information, I do not look at it like a two headed monster from outer space. Just I personally have never seen one.

 

Almost looks like a piece of art, but the op picture it has a couple sharp bends in it that make it look like touching the points.

I think I would want to remove it and smooth it out, then create a smooth curve to match the distributor body.

 

With the quality of parts coming from over seas, I would take great care with that condenser and use it as long as I could get it to work.

I bought one from a guy that makes them ... paid maybe $65 or $75 for it. Solid brass and is to me a work of art.

Same time I got 3 bad $10 condenser from napa in a row, 4th condenser I grabbed from a old junk motor in the shed and used it.

So $65 + shipping for a solid brass American made condenser does not seem like too much ... in my mind.

A original working condenser is priceless.

 

Only advice  to @CarlI can offer. at this point, it just may be time to pull the distributor out. spread some newspaper out on the kitchen table and take it apart, clean it make sure the vacuum advance is working, the shaft bushings have oil and not worn out, To much side play in the shaft will give a erratic dwell reading. the breaker plate moves freely.

Take this thing apart and own it, put it back together and use it. They really are pretty simple. They sit so low in the motor they are difficult to work on in the car.

Because they are slotted & not gear driven, easy to remove/install.

Even if you find out the vacuum advance is not working, or the bushings are worn, clean and oil what you can, new wires & assemble. Then later when you are trying to tune the engine, You know whats what.

Chances are your distributor is fine, just needs some love.Obviously it was working at some point .... possibly just the wire from the points to the connector to the coil wire is bad? To just replace that wire, is easier to pull it out of the car and do it on the bench .... while you are there you may as well check out the rest.

[Kilgore47]

Replacing parts may be required. But I have always tried to fix what is there first.  I will try to explain what I would do if this were my distributor.  A copy of the picture of your distributor is attached with comments.

 

     Orange - This wire is there to ground the body of the dist to the points plate.  Check for continuity.  

 

     Yellow - Check this with the points open.  The wire from the coil to the points, the copper strap from the condenser to the points and the points should not be grounded to the body of the dist.  The copper strap should be insulated so it will not touch the dist body.  This could be done with heat shrink tubing. 

 

     Purple - There is an insulating bushing here to insulate the points from the body of the dist when the points are open.

 

     Red - This is the wire from the coil to the points.  It appears to be there but it is stuffed down in there somewhere.  Reroute or replace this wire so that it does not ground to the body of the dist.

 

     Blue - This is where the wire from the coil connects to the dist.  Check this through connection to make sure it does not ground to the body of the dist.  You may consider replacing this wire also.  It looks a little worn.

 

     Green - This area looks a little tattered.  When you reassemble the dist I'm sure it will look and function better.

 

I know that this is probably not as clear to you as it is in my head so feel free to ask questions.

 

 As stated above you should remove, disassemble and clean the dist on your bench.   Or the kitchen table if you won't get in too much trouble for that.

[maok]

I can't understand how that copper strap on that condensor could not be grounding, as mentioned, use some heat shrink on it or just go Pertronix...:)

[Los_Control]

Just now, Kilgore47 said:

I know that this is probably not as clear to you as it is in my head so feel free to ask questions.

You did a great job on this, you get a attaboy from me ... I was thinking about doing something similar just to point out a couple  issues, you did a great job and 110% more complete then I would have been able to do.

The green box the tattered area, I suspect a previous owner did something there and has failed ... just a guess.

 

You zoomed in on the photo and made it larger. You see how hammered the shaft is where the rotor sits?  I think it will work as is.

But I have to wonder what caused that in the past? Miss matched cap & rotor?  Seriously, looks like someone beat it with a hammer.

 

While I understand the goal may be to just see if the engine runs without putting to much money into it ... this could very well be the reason the vehicle was parked in the first place.

This is the first place a person needs to spend time on. I have never looked, I wonder if could get a rebuilt distributor from napa or rockauto?

Myself I would try to fix what I have ... that dizzy been pounded on and seen better days.

Still just cleaned up it will provide spark to the points and start the engine. even if vacuum advance not working or shaft bushings are worn, it will start.