Flat Head 6 Engine Swap 218 to 228

[Plymouthy Adams]

http://<iframe width="1280" height="562" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/EkhJxWsbvEc" frameborder="0" autoplay=1;allowfullscreen></iframe>not sure Ed..tried but failed

Edited April 16, 2016 by Plymouthy Adams

[The Oil Soup]

The A833 overdrive seems like a good deal, I'm just not sure the local pick a part has that many older mopars come through. It will be something to keep an eye out for. Most of the vehicles that show up there are generally not much more than twenty years old.

[DJ194950]

Did a Craigslist search for all of Ca. last night for a Mopar 833a trans and only three came up. 1 was in parts for a rebuild for $500 and two in socal for $7-800+. IE not cheap?!

 

Pick and pull is very unlikely in No.ca. for these.

 

DJ

[Fargone]

Think long and hard before you  go to a Non-Mopar T5 transmission.  There appears to be lots of the forum who have had success with it. Long ago I took

the advise of a couple of members and went down the road. It turned out to be a lot more involved and more expensive than portrayed.  I should have picked

up when one of the pictures shown was of the T5 all taken apart.  I was told to look for a ranger t5 which I did. Later on the person who seems to be at the route

of the T5 craze  changed his tune and it was then an S10 he used.  1st gear is completely useless. After spending a huge amount of money what I had was a transmission that you start off in 2nd, shift to 4th which really isn't right but 3rd is too high geared and then 5th.   Thank God I ran into this guys blog

 

http://p15-d24.com/blog/17/entry-88-the-rough-field-spotters-guide-for-mopar-overdrives/

 

I did not switch to the a833 overdrive. This guy talked me off the ledge and instead of starting over I pulled the t5 out and had the gears changes to a set of gears that were useable.  Again more cost although less than if I had tossed everything out and started again.  I do wish I had went the A833 tranny route to start although

I was assured on this forum there was no Mopar route.   That was complete, horse s***. 

 

You can certainly find t5's with better gear ratios. They are not the s10 or ranger. They are Mustang and Camaro  and those transmissions are much

more money.

 

I should have went with my gut to start and went the mopar route.   I thought long and hard about posting anything here because in my opinion there

are a group of bullies who have their own agenda and I am sure those guys and their group of friends will jump on here to say how great t5 transmission

conversions are.  I have one, I finally got it going and it was way more cost and effort that described.  If you want to send me a PM I am happy to call

you and talk further on the topic. 

 

I have no interest in others from the bully group pm'ing me looking to brow beat me. Those guys can go pound salt. If I sound bitter believe me I am .

 

Barb

Thanks for the information Barb I value all experiences and suggestions for my build. I may be able to find an A-833 down south next winter. I'm not ruling out the T5, but I now know a lot more than I did a few days ago.

[Fargone]

Not sure that I'd use the MII package in a truck..well, I'm 'frugal' so I wouldn't use the MII in anything due to the cost, but your truck-your money.  Take a look at the GenI Dakota if you want IFS.

 

The trans adapter options are based on which bellhousing you have; some work, some not-so-much.

I was actually looking at (dreaming about) the entry level Fatman suspension kit for my truck and their disc brake conversion as well. The suspension conversion kit isn't that expensive $500US, but when you add the disc brakes @ $750US that package gets pricey. The suspension install requires elite welding skills that I don't possess so that will add to the cost as well. I will look into the Dakota suspension option. Thanks for the feedback.

[oldasdirt]

Did a Craigslist search for all of Ca. last night for a Mopar 833a trans and only three came up. 1 was in parts for a rebuild for $500 and two in socal for $7-800+. IE not cheap?!

 

Pick and pull is very unlikely in No.ca. for these.

 

DJ

I wouldn't have thought that craigslist as being my gauge for transmission pricing but what do I know.

 

A quick search on ebay and I often call Ebay the "wish list" for pricing.   There are hundreds of them for sale or sold in the last 30

days. From under $200 to rebuilt around $700 and $750 for a fresh rebuild with 1 year warranty.  I have no dog in this hunt

but based on what the asking price is for the Camaro t5 transmission I see the a833 doesn't seem to be as pricy. The s10 ones

seem to be in the same range as the a833.   I was going to have a look at Hemmings next

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/mopar-a833-a-833-4-speed-overdrive-transmission-4-speed-75-76-aluminum-chrysler-/272213456739?hash=item3f612fb763:g:inQAAOSw14xXEYhj&vxp=mtr

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-A-body-4-speed-A833-OD-Aluminum-/331829389042?hash=item4d4292a6f2:g:jnEAAOSwQgpXAuWg&vxp=mtr

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-A-833-four-speed-overdrive-transmission-/262365710034?hash=item3d163706d2:g:BCcAAOSwGYVW~7y5&vxp=mtr

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-B-E-body-4-speed-A833-Overdrive-/331829209798?hash=item4d428feac6:g:a1wAAOSwq19XDCJA&vxp=mtr

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-A-Body-A-833-O-D-4-speed-transmission-/371562076597?hash=item5682d359b5:g:vT8AAOSwuAVWz5m9&vxp=mtr

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-UP-MOPAR-A833-4-SPEED-OVERDRIVE-B-E-BODY-TRANSMISSION-USED-/322011681738?hash=item4af96453ca:g:n9YAAOSwzgRWxQA7&vxp=mtr

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-A-833-Overdrive-4-speed-with-shifter-/172137506878?hash=item281431e83e:g:ihsAAOSwu1VW6ege&vxp=mtr

 

 

rebuilt

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CHRYSLER-A833-1976-3-SPEED-W-OVERDRIVE-ALUMINUM-CASE-REMAN-TRANSMISSION-/141959753172?hash=item210d75edd4:g:nbwAAOSwo3pWetOR&vxp=mtr

 

rebuilt full warranty for $750

 

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1965-87-Mopar-A833-3-Speed-Transmission-with-Overdrive-23-30-Spline-/301912095988?hash=item464b5cfcf4:g:XDUAAOSwLpdW-XpG&vxp=mtr&rmvSB=true

Edited April 16, 2016 by oldasdirt

[NiftyFifty]

I picked up my T5 for $100, and it was from a 87/88 S10 and it's the perfect ratio...I can't start off in my second without riding the crap out of the throttle and clutch, so I don't know how others got unlucky, unless they did get a ranger T5 that was a 4cyl truck... S10s here had 4 speeds if they were the 2.5L, or at least I've never seen a 4cyl 5 speed one and we worked on a bunch of them back in my shop days. Mustang T5 is no good, as the shifter is too far back from what I recall...

I guess what one guy calls quiet and useable varies....I don't want to listen to the whine, or the double clutching of the old 4 spd I had...but my truck was a 1 ton, and it's 1st gear was completely useless after the Cherokee diff swap. As for the beefy factor, I guess if your out drag racing your flatty at night it might be an issue, but IMO no way my 120hp or whatever is there is going to hurt that T5 unless your trying hard too.

[wayfarer]

MaMopar used plenty of the A-833 units so they should not be scarce, especially if you can live with the 64-65 style that even most Mopar guys snub their nose at...that usually translates into less-cost...

Freight and shift linkage will be the bigger issues on these.

[Jeff Balazs]

Here is another perspective on all this. It is my belief that swap outs and major modifications need to be very carefully thought out with one of these trucks. It is all too easy to be sucked in by the supposed benefits of some of this stuff. I would suggest you get it running with your 228 engine in place and drive it as it is for a while before jumping into stuff like frame mods. I will tell you right now that the original front end and steering if brought up to spec is just fine for daily use. Especially with some decent gas charged shocks.

Getting the gearing right depends a lot on your specific truck and driving requirements. What might work well for one of us isn't always going to be perfect for another truck. IMO any of the transmission swaps other than period boxes are a fair amount of work and expense. Swapping out the rear axle is simple. Upgrading the front brakes to disc's is also relatively easy. Beyond those two items things start getting more complicated.......and the results more nebulous.

 

Jeff

[Fargone]

Here is another perspective on all this. It is my belief that swap outs and major modifications need to be very carefully thought out with one of these trucks. It is all too easy to be sucked in by the supposed benefits of some of this stuff. I would suggest you get it running with your 228 engine in place and drive it as it is for a while before jumping into stuff like frame mods. I will tell you right now that the original front end and steering if brought up to spec is just fine for daily use. Especially with some decent gas charged shocks.

Getting the gearing right depends a lot on your specific truck and driving requirements. What might work well for one of us isn't always going to be perfect for another truck. IMO any of the transmission swaps other than period boxes are a fair amount of work and expense. Swapping out the rear axle is simple. Upgrading the front brakes to disc's is also relatively easy. Beyond those two items things start getting more complicated.......and the results more nebulous.

 

Jeff

Thanks Jeff sometimes I get a little ahead of myself I do plan to drive the truck in stock form initially. I just can't help dreaming about the possibilities.

[Jeff Balazs]

You are welcome. And I get it.....believe me I do. I have made several mods that suit me and how I will use this truck.

And that was what I was trying to say........do what is needed to get it going and then assess what it needs to make you happy.

You may be surprised at what you have. Dodge did a pretty nice job when they built these trucks. I get compliments all the time on the ride quality in my truck. The suspension is bone stock and unmodified except for modern gas charged shocks and radial tires. It really does drive and handle quite nice.

 

Probably the biggest thing you will want to consider is the gearing. In stock form it is very low. Tread carefully though because the decisions you make about it are the most critical to the over all driving experience. I am certain that you will find most everything else is simple by comparison.

 

Jeff

[Fargone]

You are welcome. And I get it.....believe me I do. I have made several mods that suit me and how I will use this truck.

And that was what I was trying to say........do what is needed to get it going and then assess what it needs to make you happy.

You may be surprised at what you have. Dodge did a pretty nice job when they built these trucks. I get compliments all the time on the ride quality in my truck. The suspension is bone stock and unmodified except for modern gas charged shocks and radial tires. It really does drive and handle quite nice.

 

Probably the biggest thing you will want to consider is the gearing. In stock form it is very low. Tread carefully though because the decisions you make about it are the most critical to the over all driving experience. I am certain that you will find most everything else is simple by comparison.

 

Jeff

What shocks did you go with? I'm also looking for advice on wheels and tires.

[Jeff Balazs]

I don't remember the brand but Napa had them in stock for our trucks. I currently have Goodyear Wranglers in the P235 / 75 / 15R size. They are 29" tall in this size. I may change them for a lower profile as my gearing (3.55) is a little too high for my truck.

 

Jeff

[Plymouthy Adams]

and do not forget the very fact that the speedometer gearing will require change to correctly represent the speed of these other tire sizes being utilized.

[John-T-53]

I don't think an A-833 swap has yet been documented in one of these Dodge trucks yet. I have not seen or heard of any examples, at least on this website. If anybody has a project in progress or completed, please speak up.

 

Are there any A-833 bullies in the house ready to face of with the T-5 "bullies"? Haha...

[Don Coatney]

I don't think an A-833 swap has yet been documented in one of these Dodge trucks yet. I have not seen or heard of any examples, at least on this website. If anybody has a project in progress or completed, please speak up.

 

Are there any A-833 bullies in the house ready to face of with the T-5 "bullies"? Haha...

Geez John, I get in trouble every time I ask that question. I would like to hear the reports from anyone truck or car side who has done or is doing such a swap. GOOD, BAD, UGLY or otherwise just post a report.

[greg g]

There was one documented on a site dedicated to Power Giant Dodge trucks.  The installation was done on a 59 or 60 Truck with a 230 flathead.  I recall there being conserns regarding the length of the tail shaft, and the diameter of the input shaft bearing of whic there are 3 sizes I believe.  That person also noted that GM vans and light duty (6 cylinder) pickups were also sources for the transmissions.  He also stressed the importance of getting the shifter and linkage along with the transmission.

[55 Fargo]

No Don and John, the A833 trans swap has never happened, never been documented, just never happened Don, feel better now................LOL

[timkingsbury]

I don't think an A-833 swap has yet been documented in one of these Dodge trucks yet. I have not seen or heard of any examples, at least on this website. If anybody has a project in progress or completed, please speak up.

 

Are there any A-833 bullies in the house ready to face of with the T-5 "bullies"? Haha...

What would you like to know. My father put one in my Mothers 1956 Fargo in or around 1978 out of a wrecked  1974 Dodge pickup. Its likely had 150,000 miles since.. Mileage is a guess.  In terms of t5 bullies, lol, more like t5 stupidity in many cases.  I have also helped others who were lead astray with t5 conversion and if you look around the internet you can likely find an example or too of those.  In both cases, they already put in the big work, but need gear set changes.   In terms of a833 installs if your suggesting there are none, you would be barking up the wrong tree.   But hey, I am perfectly cool with letting guys put GM parts in their vehicles, just like 350 chevy's.  Not in my house, but you own your mopar,  its yours to do whatever you like and  far be it for me to do anything but quietly roll my eyes.

 

Tim Kingsbury

[Don Coatney]

There was one documented on a site dedicated to Power Giant Dodge trucks.  The installation was done on a 59 or 60 Truck with a 230 flathead.  I recall there being conserns regarding the length of the tail shaft, and the diameter of the input shaft bearing of whic there are 3 sizes I believe.  That person also noted that GM vans and light duty (6 cylinder) pickups were also sources for the transmissions.  He also stressed the importance of getting the shifter and linkage along with the transmission.

Greg, If you can find the link I would like to read it. 

[greg g]

Was on the web 10 or more years ago.  no idea if the page still exists.

[Jeff Balazs]

Don't fight.....play nice. Or if you really feel the need to do battle.....then I think swords would work best. Just get it over with......

 

As far as what transmission would work best in one of these trucks I can't see either of these as being truly optimum. Especially if you are not still using the original rear axle ratio. I certainly do not need or can imagine any benefit from an overdrive as tall as either of these transmissions have.

I would be quite happy with a close ratio 4 speed with 1st gear just a bit lower than 2nd in my stock 4 speed.  And I wouldn't care what it came out of as long as it had full syncro and worked reasonably well. Could be a Skoda for all I care.

 

Oh yeah I do have a sword and I am not afraid to use it.

 

Jeff

[Young Ed]

What would you like to know. My father put one in my Mothers 1956 Fargo in or around 1978 out of a wrecked  1974 Dodge pickup. Its likely had 150,000 miles since.. Mileage is a guess.  In terms of t5 bullies, lol, more like t5 stupidity in many cases.  I have also helped others who were lead astray with t5 conversion and if you look around the internet you can likely find an example or too of those.  In both cases, they already put in the big work, but need gear set changes.   In terms of a833 installs if your suggesting there are none, you would be barking up the wrong tree.   But hey, I am perfectly cool with letting guys put GM parts in their vehicles, just like 350 chevy's.  Not in my house, but you own your mopar,  its yours to do whatever you like and  far be it for me to do anything but quietly roll my eyes.

 

Tim Kingsbury

Last time I checked the T5 was made by Borg Warner the same company that made the mopar overdrives of the 40s and 50s.

[55 Fargo]

Don't fight.....play nice. Or if you really feel the need to do battle.....then I think swords would work best. Just get it over with......

 

As far as what transmission would work best in one of these trucks I can't see either of these as being truly optimum. Especially if you are not still using the original rear axle ratio. I certainly do not need or can imagine any benefit from an overdrive as tall as either of these transmissions have.

I would be quite happy with a close ratio 4 speed with 1st gear just a bit lower than 2nd in my stock 4 speed.  And I wouldn't care what it came out of as long as it had full syncro and worked reasonably well. Could be a Skoda for all I care.

 

Oh yeah I do have a sword and I am not afraid to use it.

 

Jeff

Are you suggesting violence Jeff?

use whatever trans you prefer, by all means, some prefer GM products, Some Ford Some Mopar, The OP was enquiring about the infamous T5 trans, I then suggested before he gets all "Gung Ho" that maybe he should consider other options, namely Mopar A833 option, a very simple transplant with the adapter plate.

This thread quickly become the "Gun Fight at OK Corral", hey all of you T5 converts, Great, you have done it, it works for you, keep on keepin on.

But the OP appears to be aware of the T5 limitations, the A833 superior qualities and strength.

I have no trouble with any type of conversion or modifications, wonder why some do?

Hope the OP, sees the humour in all of this and continues to be a part of this forum....

[John-T-53]

What would you like to know. My father put one in my Mothers 1956 Fargo in or around 1978 out of a wrecked  1974 Dodge pickup. Its likely had 150,000 miles since.. Mileage is a guess.  In terms of t5 bullies, lol, more like t5 stupidity in many cases.  I have also helped others who were lead astray with t5 conversion and if you look around the internet you can likely find an example or too of those.  In both cases, they already put in the big work, but need gear set changes.   In terms of a833 installs if your suggesting there are none, you would be barking up the wrong tree.   But hey, I am perfectly cool with letting guys put GM parts in their vehicles, just like 350 chevy's.  Not in my house, but you own your mopar,  its yours to do whatever you like and  far be it for me to do anything but quietly roll my eyes.

 

Tim Kingsbury

 

Do you have pics? The C series are fairly similar to the B's so in terms of engine placement and bench seat location would be a good example to share. The shifter placement and throw is the main interest here. I don't doubt it would easily mate to the bellhousing somehow. But it would be great to educate the members here on the details of another swap possibility if there are specifics to share.

 

For those who have swapped in a tranny without considering the final drive ratios, I wouldn't call it stupidity necessarily, I'd call it not knowing enough / lack of experience. I don't think anybody could be forced / bullied to modify their vehicle at gunpoint.

 

For those that have asked me about my tranny swap, the first thing I usually say is figure out the gears before anything else. Otherwise they will end up with a flubbed install like your cited projects above, and touted as examples of why no one should attempt that route, ever again. Huff huff.

Edited April 19, 2016 by John-T-53