Welders

[greg g]

So who is going to be the first to check the Multiplaz machine that just popped up in a banner add after 52 b3b's post?????

[GlennCraven]

So who is going to be the first to check the Multiplaz machine that just popped up in a banner add after 52 b3b's post?????

 

I got a Pizza Hut ad, and I'll guarantee I'm going to check THAT out.

[DJ194950]

Paul,

I was surprized that Ebay had tutorials on their site for mig welders, pro/con on sizes-features.

I was googling mig welders and instructions, etc and it was one of many, then on the ebay site also many.

For mig welding on new to old sheet metal I strong recommend Mig with a gas bottle and a unit with separate temp. and wire speeds controls.

Here in Ca, you can rent bottles with the gas. Or buy one time and do Owner bottle type exchange of bottles, no waiting a week or more to fill Your bottle. Once set up with a supplier just take the empty in and pick up a full one and just pay for the gas in it.

I have a 125 bottle. We are not resticted as to the owner sizes.

Actually I wish that I bought a smaller bottle 12 years ago as it's very heavy even though it's in a cart with the welder and I only need to fill it about once per year. Sometimes a little more often when doing a lot of sheet metal replacement!

 

You have too much welding to do to get "thrifty" on this purchase.

Buy a good one and you will find welding so much easier and less time with a grinder!

 

One place to compare prices: eastwood.com

Others Miller/lincoln and Hobart on the lower side.

 

Get to it!

 

Doug

[deathbound]

Check out/search:http://www.garagejournal.com/

 

Sister site of the HAMB. Welders have been discussed to death there.

Edited October 28, 2013 by deathbound

[Dodgeb4ya]

Harbor freight is not the place to buy a piece of welding equipment if you want to complete good safe welds. A liitle bit of welding education would be a good thing too for first timers learning to weld gas/stick mig ect.

Mig welding is not as simple as it seems. Neither is the quality equipment.

Just my thoughts on this post

Bob

[austinsailor]

You can get a good quality wire welder with the gas option that is 110. No need to go to 220 unless you really need that much output. Mine is Lincoln, it'll run on your standard 15 amp circuit unless you have the amps turned way up, which you won't on sheet metal.  I got mine maybe 15 years ago at a welding shop, but they are now at Home Depot, Lowes and all those guys. Harbor Freight will last a little while, might do ok for a while, although I doubt if you tried both side by side you'd be happy with theirs.

 

As to bottle size, if you check the price, you'll find it goes down a lot per cubic foot to fill it as the size goes up. A large part of the fill is the testing and labor which is the same regardless of bottle size. If you use any at all, get the biggest bottle you can physically handle.

 

I have also learned there is a big difference in fill cost for the same size at different suppliers. Check, it can be 2 times as much at one as another in the same town.

 

Although few do it any more, at least one local place still does a 20 year lease instead of a lifetime lease. With a lifetime lease you effectively own the bottle, can sell it back, trade it at a different supplier in the future, or just lose it.  No problem, except you won't have a bottle. With a 20 year lease, in 20 years you give it back, or pay for it again. And if you move to another town it's not going to be easy to trade it.  Recently my father was surprised to learn he had to take his bottles back, and today they still rent them only that way at that local big supplier.

 

Another thing to worry about is when your bottle was last tested. When you get one, make sure it was tested recently. Most of us won't use up our gas quickly. The bottles have to be retested every 5 years, I think it is. A shop that uses a lot of gas will take it back soon and it won't be a problem. If you keep yours for several years, you may find you have to pay to have it retested when trying to trade. If you insist on a bottle that has recently be re-certified, your window is much longer.

[chopt50wgn]

I have a Hobart mig 110v model. I wanted it to do sheet metal and small welding around my shop. I also got a gas bottle at TSC because I am not a big fan of welding with flux core wire. The gas makes such a nicer weld.

[greg g]

Just got a communique from the Chinese Embassy ( Harbor Freight)  if I did the decoding correctly they have their 170 amp welder with a 130.00 coupon for total price of 169.00  the 90 amp is 50.00 off for an out the door price of 99.00 and 2 of their self darkening helmets for 49.99.  For those of you looking to power 12v accessories in you 6 V car the jumper pac with outlet is 40.00 bocks.  The 3.5 HP 21 gallon vertical air compressor is 159.00 with the -60.00 coupon, bench top drill press is 60.00.

 

I know that a lot of folks don't have much use for their stuff, but for one off jobs and hobby mechanic, occasional use tools, use your discretion and choose your poison.  My missive came via uniformed courier, so if your are on the list for such thing check your drop sit for your own cipher. 

[knuckleharley]

Harbor Freight has a mig welder for $119 which includes a roll of wire, shield, etc. It's capacity 18 gaute up to 3/16". There would  not be much  thicker than 3/16" except for some serious frame work on a vehicle. I'm considering this. 

 

Responses welcomed. 

You usually get what you pay for. In this case,it will be a piece of crap from China that uses aluminum instead of copper windings,and a duty cycle about the length of a blink.

 

Also,expect to be limited to one size wire and no reversable polarity.

 

I used my tax refund several years ago to buy a 140 Amp 110 volt (so I can plug it in anywhere) AC-DC HTP welder (1-800-USA-WELD) directly from HTP in Chicago. It uses all copper windings,has plug in and plug out circuit boards,and I can use all three wire sized and have the option of using flux core wire if I am welding outside in the wind. The welder and the company (NOBODY beats their customer service) impressed me so much I called them when I was ready to buy a plasma cutter. I didn't even look anywhere else.

 

For me,it will always be either a HTP or a Miller.

 

BTW,save your money for big purchases like this,and call around in mid-December to see what kind of discounts you can get. Everybody is trying to clear out their warehouses to avoid paying taxes on inventories,and there are some real bargains to be had. Don't hesitate to ask them if they have any display/show units for sale on discount,or if they have any factory rebuilt ones in inventory. You can save a bundle doing this. Sometimes up to half.

 

BTW,my HTP MIG and Plasma cutter impressed a couple of my friends good enough they bought identical units to use themselves. Here is the most modern version of the one I bought several years ago.

 

http://www.usaweld.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=60140

 

AND.....,it's all made in America.

Edited October 29, 2013 by knuckleharley

[knuckleharley]

.running back and forth for refill adds up...

 

Tig is hard to beat hands down...

Good point. You should always try your best to buy or rent bottles from a welding company that delivers. If you haul acetylene bottles,make sure you haul them standing on their ends instead of laying flat. If you have to lay them flat,allow them to stand on their ends for a couple of days before using them.

 

It's true that TIG is a superior system for professional welders,but you can train a monkey to produce good welds with a MIG in about a week,and since TIG's require two hands like gas welding with rods,it's something that needs to be done fairly often to keep your skill level up.

[Don Coatney]

I bought a 1/2" air impact gun from Harbor Freight about 40 years ago. Think I paid about thirty bucks. I have used it a lot and it still works great. I once bought an electric 1/2" drill from them and the battery would no longer hold a charge within 6 months with no replacement battery available. From my seat it is pot luck on what works and what does not. Buyer beware. You can buy a nice green well badged lawn tractor from Lowes. You may think you have a Deere but you dont. You just have nice green paint and badging.

 

As far as welders go I agree with all the comments on buying quality stuff from a welding supply house. I do however have a monkey wards AC only stick welder (220V single phase) that I bought used from a friend several years back. It meets my needs.

 

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

I like gas welding and even use the high quality tig rod (copper clad) as these do not spit and sputter or spark when using with gas..just a sweet flowing rod...I have the 80 odd cu ft tank for my TIG....own my own bottles..only way to fly..1 q oxy, 3 B acetylene, Q size Argon and a 40 cu ft CO2..acetylene is getting way out of hand price wise...I usually go through two B bottles of gas to one Q oxygen..

[knuckleharley]

  220v, flux core/mig capable, a proper hood w/auto-darkening lens, (hand held shields are a joke).

My HTP is 140 Amp 110 Volt and rated to weld up to 1/4 inch steel in a single pass. I will have to take their word for that since I won't ever be welding anything that thick.

 

The auto darkening helmets have really dropped in price in the last few years,and you can get a good one pretty cheap from places like Tractor Supply if one doesn't come with your welder.

 

A word of caution about welding,here. If you have a shop cat or a shop dog,make sure you put them somewhere they can't look at the flash while you are welding. It's easy to forget them,especially of it is a shop cat that is basically semi-mobile furniture anyhow.

[knuckleharley]

One place to compare prices: eastwood.com

Others Miller/lincoln and Hobart on the lower side.

 

Get to it!

 

Doug

Eastwood has some very good instructional videos on You Tube,also. Just search using "eastwood" as the key word.

 

Their prices are sometimes a little high,but Eastwood is one of the few places you can buy things unseen and be assured you are going to get a quality tool. They just don't sell junk.

[austinsailor]

"I used my tax refund several years ago to buy a 140 Amp 110 volt (so I can plug it in anywhere) AC-DC HTP welder (1-800-USA-WELD) "

 

I looked at their ad and specs, sounds like quite a good machine. I noticed, though, that it draws 30 amps, which is double what most 110 volt outlets can provide.  While it's true it'll do it all on 110 volts, if you turn up the amps at all, probably over about 80 or 90, you're going to have to wire a special plug. 

Edited October 29, 2013 by austinsailor

[ptwothree]

I got most of my welding stuff from body shops that where going under.  Picked up a Miller-matic 135 w/ 150cu/ft tank and a Miller 225 Thunderbolt stick welder.  Got an o/a setup from a garage sale with large tanks and Victor regs, torch, and tips.  I've got about $550 in it with full tanks ready to go.  That, and a free drill press and lots of air tools, electric shears etc .......  I can justify the cost for tools as opposed to paying someone else for there labor.  As an old ad use to say " I'd rather do it myself"

[Plymouthy Adams]

the Hobart self darkening welder is the exact sam thing you get a HF for like half the price...my HF on is till going strong after some 10 years...so with the new TIG welder I bought a newer one with a bit faster reaction time due to the brighter light of the TIG..

[Don Coatney]

About fourty bucks at Northern Tool

 

[48Dodger]

HF Mig welders don't come with the bottle set-up if I remember right. So really if your not paying for the upgrades (bottle, hoses. regulators, gas)  your buying a Flux Wire Welder (flux core wire feeder)..not a MIG Welder. The welds won't be pretty, but it is a good way to start. If anything it will help you appreciate a good MIG Welder when you get one or use one. There are two types of flux core...one is gas shielded flux core (for out of position welding, the slag is fast setting to help hold the molten material) and the type you will buy, which is Self Shielding Flux Core (gasless). Since your not going into the business of body work and you want to have fun/learn/etc....it's not a bad deal. Besides all the saftey gear etc....I would suggest you weld outside. As a newb, you're gonna make some fat molten blobs that will end up in the cracks of your project, under your bench, and trash can.....this will burn down your shop. And it won't happen while you are there. It will happen in a slow burn kinda way...smoldering in silence..until it triggers the alarms. Oh yah...install a fire alarm in your shop if your gonna have a welder.

 

48D   

 

Gloves•Helmet•Leather Cap•Glasses•Leather Apron•Leather Blanket•Slag Hammer•Wirebrushes•Handheld Grinders•Welding Boots•Clamps•Magnets•Welding Pliers•Welding Sleeves•Spare Tips•Welding Table•Ear Plugs•Co2 Fire Extinguishers• Steel Bucket of Water.....

Edited October 29, 2013 by 48dodger

[pflaming]

Thanks to all who've contributed to my education on welding. I will likely borrow a good mig welder this time. I have not decided yet whether to get help of do it myself. I think with a little practice and patience I can do the task. I've down a lot of mig welding so what I have to learn is how to do light metal.

 

As shown in the picture, my shop opens to the alley and so I will do all welding in the alley. I have no intentions of burning down my garage. I do all my torch work in the alley as well. But I'm a week of body work, maybe more,  away from welding. 

 

[james curl]

I have a friend who has a HTP mig and has used it to build several hot rods and patch many body panels before doing body work and painting for customers.  He also has a big Lincoln TIG welder but finds he likes the HTP mig for most welding.  He also just bought himself a Smiths Aircraft torch for his gas welding and has begun using it on sheet metal for patches.  The Smith's torch is a real nice unit but a little pricey.

[james curl]

I never weld inside of my one car 90 year old garage which also houses my wood working tools which also get use in there as well.  I figure it would probably take all of twenty minutes to burn to the ground at the most as the wood is all old long leaf pine and a little sappy as well as having a very low moisture content, should burn like a match.  Have to weld outside which is probably the only safe place to weld any way.  Have to have some type of screen in place in order to use mig with gas.  So most of the time I drive the 30 miles out to my friends place and he welds my stuff for me.

[Frank Elder]

HF Mig welders don't come with the bottle set-up if I remember right. So really if your not paying for the upgrades (bottle, hoses. regulators, gas)  your buying a Flux Wire Welder (flux core wire feeder)..not a MIG Welder. The welds won't be pretty, but it is a good way to start. If anything it will help you appreciate a good MIG Welder when you get one or use one. There are two types of flux core...one is gas shielded flux core (for out of position welding, the slag is fast setting to help hold the molten material) and the type you will buy, which is Self Shielding Flux Core (gasless). Since your not going into the business of body work and you want to have fun/learn/etc....it's not a bad deal. Besides all the saftey gear etc....I would suggest you weld outside. As a newb, you're gonna make some fat molten blobs that will end up in the cracks of your project, under your bench, and trash can.....this will burn down your shop. And it won't happen while you are there. It will happen in a slow burn kinda way...smoldering in silence..until it triggers the alarms. Oh yah...install a fire alarm in your shop if your gonna have a welder.

 

48D   

 

Gloves•Helmet•Leather Cap•Glasses•Leather Apron•Leather Blanket•Slag Hammer•Wirebrushes•Handheld Grinders•Welding Boots•Clamps•Magnets•Welding Pliers•Welding Sleeves•Spare Tips•Welding Table•Ear Plugs•Co2 Fire Extinguishers• Steel Bucket of Water.....

And fancy dance moves plus swearing vocabulary, when...not if....that blob finds it's way inside your one of your boots..you can't unlace fast enough!

[deathbound]

Something which has barely been discussed in this thread.....SAFETY. Always have a charged fire ext handy with the correct rating, (or water hose if outside-don't spray the welding machine), ear plugs (if you've ever had a dingle berry fly in your ear-you know what I mean), long sleeve shirt/welding sleeves or jacket & welding gloves.....we are all tough but arc/slag/spatter, etc. still hurts (I think there is a pic in this thread of someone with a short sleeve shirt & no gloves), make sure ALL flammable materials/liquids are well away from any welding operation. I'm sure some will add more, but this is just the basics. I hope I don't sound like a safety nazi....I've done a few of these things myself & have the scars to prove it. The point is to have fun & be safe at the same time.....

 

48dodger......I've never used gas shielded flux core (dual shield) since I work out in the field....I do use Lincoln NR-232 flux core .072 diameter wire in all positions....flat, horizontal, vertical up, & overhead. I think the shop uses dual shield....it produces a nice looking weld. 

[greg g]

lets talk about inert gas and flux.  If I remember from lessons about 30 years ago, Flux is a cleaning agent, while the inert gas is to keep a bubble around the work site to keep oxygen away from the bead.  I would guess that there might be a bit of O₂ shielding in the components of the super heated flux.  I have been using a spool of plain wire in my non gas wire welder for the last couple of year.  (It and several other partial spools were FREE) I can still stick stuff together, and for the most part it stays together,  Not the prettiest stuff but it works.  I usually grind, wire brush and chamfer stuff as best as possible before clamping and welding.

 

 I remember my mother asking me why all my socks in high school had holes in the tops.  Musta been from wearing penny loafers and pegged pants to shop class.  I believe I still have a couple chunks of slag in both feet.  Well a guys gotta get his iron somewhere.