48Windsor Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 Today I got serious about researching the intake/exhaust manifold and carb rebuild. Spent some time trying to determine where the exhaust leak is. Sure enough,crawled under the car to put PB Blaster on all the nuts and saw that the exhaust on #6 cyclinder is cracked. I imagine finding one will be as rare as a hen's tooth. Also, while looking around in that area, how in the world can anyone ever adjust the valves. even with the fender panel removed. What a setup!!! I've rebuilt small engine carbs and 1 barrels on old tractors. I'm pretty hesitant on trying to rebuild this Carter BB. Lots more parts, balls, accel. pumps, dashpot, etc etc. Looks like I need to turn it over to a local shop. Ok, done crying in my beer. I hate paying shop labor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casper50 Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) I take it you have a 25" engine. If it's a 23" manifold you can have mine for shipping. Edited February 20, 2017 by casper50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted February 20, 2017 Report Share Posted February 20, 2017 13 minutes ago, 48Windsor said: Today I got serious about researching the intake/exhaust manifold and carb rebuild. Spent some time trying to determine where the exhaust leak is. Sure enough,crawled under the car to put PB Blaster on all the nuts and saw that the exhaust on #6 cyclinder is cracked. I imagine finding one will be as rare as a hen's tooth. Also, while looking around in that area, how in the world can anyone ever adjust the valves. even with the fender panel removed. What a setup!!! I've rebuilt small engine carbs and 1 barrels on old tractors. I'm pretty hesitant on trying to rebuild this Carter BB. Lots more parts, balls, accel. pumps, dashpot, etc etc. Looks like I need to turn it over to a local shop. Ok, done crying in my beer. I hate paying shop labor. Pull the exhaust manifold off and take it to a professional welder and ask him if he can weld it up. If he says "Yes",ask him HOW he welds cast iron. If he doesn't tell you he sand blasts the intake to look for more cracks,and then drill small holes at the end of each crack to relieve the stresses that caused the crack,then heats the manifold in a oven to insure all the air pockets no longer have any air in them so the weld isn't brittle,and then welds it up using cast iron welding rod after clamping it to a welding table to prevent warping,and then leaving it clamped until it cools to room temperature,find another welder. It's also helpful with thick stuff like that to pin the holes he drilled with cast iron rod to further relieve the stressed area to keep it from cracking again. I used to be a gunsmith,and have welded up a BUNCH of broken cast iron shotgun tangs,as well as other small parts. Cast iron is only hard to weld and brittle if you don't preheat it to get rid of the air pockets. If you do like I wrote above, If you have someone to help you and it's small stuff you are welding,you can get by with having someone using a gas torch with a rosebud tip to keep it hot while you weld. It's the big,thick stuff that needs the oven. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpollo Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I do not think it would be that hard to find an exhaust manifold which will fit. all 25 inch engine manifolds will fit however some vary in design. A good welder may be the easiest fix. Carter B&Bs are easy to repair. Standard Kit 101 A fits most of them. If you are a handy kind of guy it will be easy. I am not sure where Rossville is in Kansas, but if it is anywhere near Bucyrus, my friend Jerry Elwood ( Plymouth Club Member) would be very likely to help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatie46 Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I'm sure you could find a manifold somewhere, they don't sell 'em at Wal-Mart but they're out there. If you do decide to weld it, it ain't no big deal. Prep like Knuckleharley said above. I like to cover a cast repair after I'm done if I can and let it cool down slow. It may or may not help at all just something I like to do. At work we use Cronatron 211 rods for cast. They're amazing, we call 'em miracle rods. I've welded draw pot element frames with them and never had a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48Windsor Posted February 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Casper50, thanks for the very generous offer. But, as is my usual luck, its a 251cu. in. so I assume a 25". When/If I start looking for one, what years do I look for or do I just need a 251 manifold??? If anyone runs across one, let me know. Thanks for all the tips on what the welder needs to go through. I didn't think cast iron could be welded successfully. I'll try to quiz them without offending them if i have to go that route. I've gotten all the nuts broke lose except for the last 2 on #6 cyl. Of course there's always got to be one. Letting it soak overnight. Interesting side note. When I removed the carb, the two nuts were barely tightened down. They're fairly short studs but don't you usually us a lock washer on them. Can't imagine it wasn't leaking a little. Also, I thought it was missing the choke rod deflector, but the last person had it turned around. I turned it towards the choke rod, but things aren't lining up right. Will have to look at the pic i got earlier. Dpollo, Bucyrus is about 2.5 hours east of me. My daughter and her family live about 30 min. or so from there. Probably a little far. Good to know though. Tom B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 with the title OH FUDGE, expected to read someone dropped the lug nuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Too bad you are so far away. I have a long block set in the garage, with fully functional heat riser, it's in good shape. It would cost a few bucks to ship it your way, and I already have it spoken for tentatively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastback50 Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, 48Windsor said: Also, while looking around in that area, how in the world can anyone ever adjust the valves. even with the fender panel removed. What a setup!!! Very patiently and carefully haha--watch that you don't drop the keepers. Having the valve adjustment tool is also crucial. I've rebuilt small engine carbs and 1 barrels on old tractors. I'm pretty hesitant on trying to rebuild this Carter BB. Lots more parts, balls, accel. pumps, dashpot, etc etc. Looks like I need to turn it over to a local shop. The Carter B&B is an easy rebuild IMO--I had not done much carb work but on small engines until this one, but watched this video, ordered the kit, and completed it without issue: Edited February 21, 2017 by Fastback50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgeb4ya Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 You should have bought a NewYorker as there is more room to do that job! The only problem is is that the manifolds for an eight are rare as hens teeth and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classiccarjack Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Is this a straight 8 or a 251? I am a little derailed here. I bought some engine parts and I may have a intake/exhaust matched set still together. But I bought them, I didn't inherit them.... PM me if you like, I can sell for what I invested, not looking to make a buck here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg g Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 Some one told me years ago that exhaust manifolds need to be chemically cleaned in order to assure all carbon from exhaust passing through the crack will play hell with the weld. Also the crack should be v'd out with a grinder or burr to get more area under the new metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knuckleharley Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 5 hours ago, greg g said: Some one told me years ago that exhaust manifolds need to be chemically cleaned in order to assure all carbon from exhaust passing through the crack will play hell with the weld. Also the crack should be v'd out with a grinder or burr to get more area under the new metal. That is true,but in my OPINION when you slowly preheat cast iron in a over to the point where it glows red,not only is it at the ideal temperature to weld it without it becoming brittle,but any and all impurities trapped in the air pockets has been burnt away. I agree that a groove should be cut along the lines of the crack after drilling holes at each end of the crack to relieve the stress that created the crack. I prefer to autogenous weld the crack to make sure the crack is completely closed at the rear,and then use rod as fill to bring the surface back up to level so it can be ground down flat. If absolutely necessary for a high dollar restoration of if you are just anal,you can recreate the pores from the casting by stippling it while it is still red. You MIGHT do that once,but the next time you will just spend the money,whatever money is required,to just buy one that has never been cracked. Hand stippling something is a nightmare that would challenge the patience of a saint. Better to just file the whole surrounding surface flat and polish it so it appears to be a factory look unless it is a high-point restoration,and once again,if that is the case buy a good one and spend your time doing more useful things. Building up and leaving a raised bead over the area you welded is unnecessary if you weld it properly to start with. All this is from a oxygen acetylene weld POV. I have no idea what the proper steps and methods are if using MIG or TIG with special wire and gases. I was more of a self-taught "trial and error" blacksmith than I was a professional welder,so I welcome any comments from the pros about using more modern welding methods. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatie46 Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I didn't know the car was an 8cyl when I posted above. Yea I would say that manifold might be hard to find. If Welding didn't pan out and i think it would, you could build a header for it. Just anthor option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49D-24BusCpe Posted February 21, 2017 Report Share Posted February 21, 2017 I'm confused, I thought that a 25" 251 6-cylinder was the engine of choice in the Windsor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 1946-49 C 38 Chrysler Royals and Windsors, 250.6 6 cylinder engines, known in Canada as 250s. 1946-49 C 39 New Yorker, Saratoga, and Town and Country Convertible 323 inline L head 8 cylinder engine. Town and Country 4 door sedan, is a 250.6 6 cylinder engine for 1946-49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casper50 Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 what was the cubic inches on the 8? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49D-24BusCpe Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Casper, The last Chrysler Straight Eight engines had 323 cu. in. Walt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48Windsor Posted February 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Today i got commandeered into helping pour a patio. Working concrete is almost as bad a laying on your back working on a Chrysler. This car is a 251 6 cylinder as stated above. I've got all the nuts out except for the one in the middle underneath on the intake port. Also, need to get at one nut on the exhaust pipe.Both are kind of a bear to get at. No impact wrench on them. Been soaking them so hopefully they'll break lose. I forgot that the studs in #1 and #6 cyinder get into the water jacket! By the time I got it screwed back in,,,,,,,,,, Well lets just say my shop floor has now been cleaned real good! I just had to shake my head and walk away. Will work on those last two Friday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 Fargo Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 This is what you need, and good luck there out there, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51custom Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Rockwood said: This is what you need, and good luck there out there, Fully functioning heat riser you say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48Windsor Posted February 27, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Well, I finally got it off. No wonder it was so noisy! I've got a couple leads so hopefully one works out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ194950 Posted February 27, 2017 Report Share Posted February 27, 2017 Hard to say for sure but if you lay a straight edge across the faces of the intake and exhaust mounting flanges, I believe you will find they are Not flat between the two parts. If someone were to tighten the mounting nuts to eliminate leaks if will definitely break off pieces or cause the cracks many have found on the manifolds. If you find a replacement set make sure to check it also for flatness. Since if you try to loosen the bolts/studs between the intake and exhaust to even the flanges you will almost surely break some! You can have the flanges machined flat ( at a local motor rebuild shop) without removing any bolts -which would almost always a good idea anyway. DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Skinner Posted February 28, 2017 Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 (edited) 5 years ago when I was 55 and still strong as an Ox, I took a piece of Flat Metal 6" x 48" 16 Gauge, and used spray adhesive to glue 80 Grit Sandpaper to it (Belt sander size paper) from Lowe's. I also prepared the other side with 120 Grit. Then on the flatest part of my garage floor I rubbed the two Manifolds bolted together their Flanges against it in a continous firm fashion until all flange surfaces became flat and true. The sand paper on the other side acted like a bench hog. It went fast, maybe 20 - 25 strokes on each Grit. They were ready to install, Flat and True to each other and looked professionally machined. Using New Manifold Gaskets with High Heat Gasket Sealer they snugged back on true and have never leaked since. In my humble opinion sending manifolds out to be machined is not necessary when using my method described above. Metal Stud Supply Houses have the Flat Metal, and will sell you a 4' piece cheap. I think I had @$10 in my shade Tree method. You need strong arms and wrists to hold the Manifolds Flat and True as you Rub them across the home made plane. The weight of the Manifolds helped keep them true, care must be in not letting tem rock back or forth in either direction. Tom Edited February 28, 2017 by Tom Skinner More info 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48Windsor Posted February 28, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2017 Good info.Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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