Aftermarket wheels, rear brake drum bolts

[curtisw]

Hi all, I'm mocking up some Wheel Vintiques steel wheels on the back of my 1950 Plymouth with the stock brakes. I noticed that the stock wheels have a dimple to accommodate the three bolts that attach the drum to the rear axle. The new wheels are multi-bolt pattern but the holes don't line up exactly. I'm wondering if this will be an issue as long as the wheels are torqued appropriately? I've attached a few pictures. 

[Los_Control]

Just hard to say if the wheel is sitting 100% absolutely flat against the drum

I'm going out on a limb and say ..... NO! this will not work.

You can grind the rivets down on the drums and remove them ..... assuring your new wheels fit flat.

 

This is sometimes done to call it a improvement ..... putting new wheels against them can only lead to disaster if not sitting flat.

You will need to mount a machinist gauge then check the run out while turning the wheels ..... If not flat they will eventually fail and warble out the bolt holes.

Ruining your new wheels.

 

At the very least they will cause vibration and wobble til they do fail.

[curtisw]

7 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

Just hard to say if the wheel is sitting 100% absolutely flat against the drum

I'm going out on a limb and say ..... NO! this will not work.

You can grind the rivets down on the drums and remove them ..... assuring your new wheels fit flat.

 

This is sometimes done to call it a improvement ..... putting new wheels against them can only lead to disaster if not sitting flat.

You will need to mount a machinist gauge then check the run out while turning the wheels ..... If not flat they will eventually fail and warble out the bolt holes.

Ruining your new wheels.

 

At the very least they will cause vibration and wobble til they do fail.

 

Thanks, searching the forum I saw lots of mentions of "rivets" but these aren't rivets, they're bolts. You slip the drum onto the rear axle, install three bolts which hold the drum to the rotating axle, then install the wheel and wheel bolts. I agree about the wheel sitting flat against the drum...curious if others have run into this issue. I assume the car (50 Plymouth Business Coupe) is 100% stock, maybe not?

[Los_Control]

As far as I know The trick to grinding the rivets off is now you can remove the drums without using a special puller.

If you have bolts, sounds like to me ..... someone replaced the rivets with bolts.

 

I dunno, maybe someone will come along and correct me.

 

I'm not saying it is a bad thing to have bolts ..... usually what I have read they remove the rivets and do not replace them with anything.

This will allow you to remove the drum like a modern car & not need a puller to get them off.

 

So I understand someone removing the rivets .... I just have no clue why they would replace them with bolts ....

 ...

Give it a day and maybe the smart people who go to bed early will answer tomorrow ..... pretty sure never were bolts involved there.

[Ivan_B]

Is your new wheel sitting on the center of the hub/axle or is there some space in there? 🤔 Pretty sure the OEM wheel is hub-centric. There is also normally 5 rivets holding the drum to the hub. Can we, maybe, see a picture of your drum without the wheel?

[curtisw]

I don't have one with the drum, but here's one with the drum off. I can see in the photo the remnants of the old rivets (I guess?), so someone must've drilled and tapped three of the five holes. Funny I didn't notice that when I was working on the brakes.

 

I need to replace one of the bolts since it's rounded off. Maybe I can find a countersunk or button-style bolt that will work with the new wheels. The current bolts have a shorter head to allow the stock wheel to fit flush. Maybe they were ground down? 

 

The original wheels are ok but need cleaned up. I have a Scarebird disc brake kit on the front, hence the new wheels. 

[kencombs]

1. IMHO, the rivets or bolts are not absolutely necessary.  I believe the wheel will clamp the drum solidly enough.   They where probably made that way to assure the hub and drum could be machined as a unit to assure they were concentric.   But, again, IMHO they can be substituted with a flat head allen bolt.  Well, a slotted head would work but I hate those things!   This would allow turning the drums at some point in the future to original alignment.  Will probably have to be countersunk in order to do that.   The last similar thing I did the bolts needed an 82deg countersink.   Ordered one and it worked out fine after trimming the bolt length.

Edited May 30 by kencombs

[curtisw]

Just to close this thread, I bought some countersunk allen head bolts from McMaster Carr and then slightly countersunk the existing holes. This allows the stock and aftermarket wheels to sit flat against the drum. My new wheels are multi-bolt pattern which helped.

[Daly]

On 6/17/2024 at 10:02 AM, curtisw said:

Just to close this thread, I bought some countersunk allen head bolts from McMaster Carr and then slightly countersunk the existing holes. This allows the stock and aftermarket wheels to sit flat against the drum. My new wheels are multi-bolt pattern which helped.

I'm looking for a set of wheels for my 54, I'm curious about the specs on the wheels you went and how they look on the car? 

What is the width and backspacing on the wheels? 

[Dansk]

6 hours ago, Daly said:

I'm looking for a set of wheels for my 54, I'm curious about the specs on the wheels you went and how they look on the car? 

What is the width and backspacing on the wheels? 

Same here, I'm interested as well. I'm looking for wheels for my '51 Chrysler

[andyd]

I used standard backspaced Wheel Vintique Chrome Smoothies on the 41 Plymouth Coupe I had a few yrs ago......15x6 and 15x7 wheels with the multi hole setup, I had to remove the stock locating stud on the stock 41 Plymouth Brake drums and also used the stock 41 Plymouth bolts to attach the wheels.........as I always do I checked and retightened as necessary the bolts after a short drive and had no issue.......one coil was cut from the front suspension and 2" lowering blocks installed on the rear springs with no clearance issues on the inner areas or outer fender edges........and yep I sold the car like a dope..........my Oz 2 cents worth........andyd 

[Sniper]

I run a set of DORMAN 939137 on  my 51, but they are 17x7 steelies that are for 2005-2011 RWD mopar cars.

 

Fit the back just fine, the fronts require a bit of a spacer.

[curtisw]

19 hours ago, Daly said:

I'm looking for a set of wheels for my 54, I'm curious about the specs on the wheels you went and how they look on the car? 

What is the width and backspacing on the wheels? 

 

I got these from Summit: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/WVI-14-5612334

 

15x6 wheels with 3.75" backspacing and Diamondback radials. The tires aren't mounted yet but I'll grab a picture in the next few days. 

[Daly]

19 minutes ago, curtisw said:

 

I got these from Summit: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/WVI-14-5612334

 

15x6 wheels with 3.75" backspacing and Diamondback radials. The tires aren't mounted yet but I'll grab a picture in the next few days. 

Thanks, that helps. 

[curtisw]

Here's a few pics of the Summit gennie wheels on the car (in the driveway). Tires are Diamondback radials 205/75R/15. There's plenty of clearance around the wheel wells. I'm using a 1/4" spacer in the front to accommodate the Scarebird front disc kit. The stock wheels fit with a 1/4" spacer as well.

[greg g]

Been running these wheel vintique series 20 since 2004 with no issues.  15 inch, 5.5 wide with 3.5 inch back space.  205 75 front 225 75 rears.  Zero issues.  Dual lug circle pattern accommodates the locating pin6v

[p15-1948]

Greg, I sure like your black coupe.

Edited June 23 by p15-1948

[greg g]

Thanks, been in the family since 1970.

Edited June 23 by greg g

[Young Ed]

On 6/22/2024 at 6:49 PM, curtisw said:

Here's a few pics of the Summit gennie wheels on the car (in the driveway). Tires are Diamondback radials 205/75R/15. There's plenty of clearance around the wheel wells. I'm using a 1/4" spacer in the front to accommodate the Scarebird front disc kit. The stock wheels fit with a 1/4" spacer as well.

Have you tried fitting the original hubcaps? I'm curious if the OEM clips could be transferred over to use the hubcaps.