6 to 12 volt

[Crisjr14]

Ok another question I finally got my 53 up and running well at least fired up my question is if I was to do the conversion the car is on a positive ground set up now when I do the switch over am I going to leave it positive ground and will I still be able to run accessories like radio speakers and such also this is what I am thinking of buying for my conversion I already have the harness and alternator going to try and use the starter as I've seen that I possibly can buy anything else that I might need or not need please feel free to let me know Id appreciate any and all responses 

[Sniper]

Good luck keeping it 12v positive ground.  Not sure why you want to do that.

 

As for the rest of the stuff, some nice to have, some not needed/  That fuel gauge converter you link?  Too expensive and you only have one gauge that cares, the fuel level.

 

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Runtz-12-Volt-to-6-Volt-Voltage-Reducer,2374.html

 

Here's a clue any parts place that has VIntage in it's name, will charge you a lot for the privilege.   Not near as much as MoParPro, but still.

 

Those 12v to 6v reducers?

 

https://us.rs-online.com/product/arcol/hs100-2r-f/71432076/

 

That solenoid?  I used 1M1030, under $10 at rockauto. 

 

https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/wve,1M1030,starter+solenoid,4188

 

 

 

 

[Crisjr14]

Copy that Sniper and thanks so when you say good luck keeping it 12v positive ground how do i switch the other way because as of right now I was not getting spark when I got her ready to fire up again so I checked the wiring did a few switching in wires back to + - and she fires up now and same with electric fuel pump wasn't sucking gas to carbs it was blowing out until I read up on it and had to switch the wires as well on it and now it works fine just trying to get help on as to what I need to do if I should try and put back to negative ground when I do my 6 to 12 volt conversion I again thank you for any help you or information tips etc. you can offer also as for those reducers my gauges are not set up that way they are the male to female pin plug in if that makes any sense 

Edited March 9 by Crisjr14

[Sniper]

I did not have any ignition issues when I converted my 51 to 12 negative ground.  But I do run an electrical fuel pump either.  Since I don't know what pump you are running I can't say whether it's a wiring issue or the pump isn't compatible with negative ground.  Regardless, a 6v fuel pump will probably need changed to one designed to run on 12v.

 

I used the alternator and regulator setup from an 87 Dodge Diplomat,  here's how I mounted the alternator.

 

http://www.yourolddad.com/12-volt-conversion

 

You will need 12v bulbs, they do not care about polarity.  Unless you are running LEDs.

 

The heater fan needed addressed, my old one was falling apart so I found a 122 one that worked fine.

 

http://www.yourolddad.com/blower-motor

 

Wipers were an issue, not sure if those gold resistors work well or not.  I built a current limiter to handle that for me. 

 

My ignition is stock 51 Plymouth EXCEPT for the coil, ballast resistor and the starter relay.  I used the coil and ballast resistor from a later model 12v MoPar, such as my 65 Cuda.  I mimicked the ignition system of a 12v points type mopar  like my 65 Cuda.  In this setup 12v, in run, goes to one side of the ballast resistor and the other side goes to the coil positive terminal.  In start 12v needs to be fed directly to the positive terminal of the coil.  If you use the relay I linked it has a 4th terminal, labeled I that provides 12vv when in start, run a wire from there to ether the coil positive terminal or the coil side of the ballast connection.  If you use a coil that does not need a ballast resistor, like your link, then ignore any ballast mention in my write up.

 

[Los_Control]

8 hours ago, Crisjr14 said:

so when you say good luck keeping it 12v positive ground how do i switch the other way because as of right now I was not getting spark when I got her ready to fire up again

To me it sounds like you are mix matching wiring ..... I mean you have original and trying to add different?

 

On my truck all the original cloth wiring was bad so I just removed it and am starting fresh.

I'm a outcast and I'm running a 10DN GM alternator with a external voltage regulator .... I have a ballast resistor like @sniper mounted on the firewall energized from the key.

Then it goes to the  + side of 12 volt coil, the - side goes to distributor to feed the points. ..... That is all you need to get fire to the points to make the engine run.

 

You do need to then get the starter to turn over. .... I have a stomp starter .... stomp on the mechanical button on the floor and starter activates .... I do not have a solenoid like yours.

As long as you have fire going to the points, you could pull out your hand crank and start the engine .... just saying the solenoid needs to be converted to 12 volts, not stopping the engine from running though.

 

The fuel pump running backwards is a real issue though.

Many motors do not care if + or - ground, they work fine either way but they do need a voltage reducer .... your wiper motor will work really really fast, until it burns out. Same with the heater motor .... they need reduced. ...... Starter motor does not care, it will turn the engine over faster on 12V, just do not crank it for prolonged periods it will overheat eventually.

The bulbs will all need switched to 12V.

The fuel gauge needs to be reduced.

A original factory radio designed for 6V + ground will never work with 12V - ground, without major internal surgery ..... I'm sure someone figured out a workaround .... usually they are just internally converted to modern insides while looking original externally.

 

Going 12V - ground would be the obvious choice if converting to 12V .... As far as getting power to your points to run ..... Something in your wiring is the issue.

Why all mine was removed with no hesitation 5 years ago, start fresh with a clean slate.

 

 

[Doug&Deb]

I’m not trying to talk you out of converting to 12 volt but I’m wondering if getting everything working as designed first would help. At least you can enjoy the car for a while and decide if you want to convert. It would also give you time to research and gather the necessary parts. Search the technical archives on this site as well. Several members have done this conversion successfully and you can get some ideas. Good luck.

[Sam Buchanan]

21 minutes ago, Doug&Deb said:

I’m not trying to talk you out of converting to 12 volt but I’m wondering if getting everything working as designed first would help. At least you can enjoy the car for a while and decide if you want to convert. It would also give you time to research and gather the necessary parts. Search the technical archives on this site as well. Several members have done this conversion successfully and you can get some ideas. Good luck.

 

I agree. I also am wondering about your reasons for wanting to convert to 12v. A conversion makes adding modern accessories such as sound systems easier, but a properly sorted out 6v system works very well. Get the car roadworthy on 6v then you can make an informed decision about whether or not a change to 12v is justified.

[Tired iron]

As sniper said, there's lots on your shopping list that's not really necessary and/or excessively expensive.  As an example,  you can get a 12 v electric fuel pump for 10-20 bucks that will work just fine...just make sure you get a low pressure one.

 

Steering clear of the 6 to 12 volt conversion debate (which is a hot one on this forum!), if you go 12, you absolutely want to make it neg ground--and there's no reason not to. The only things that have polarity issues are the amp meter, the ign. coil and perhaps the fuel pump and with each of those you just swap the connections to change polarity.  Overdrive would have its own issues that I won't speak to here.  Smarter minds than mine will chime in here on something I didn't get correct, but my point is that it is a very simple thing to do.

[keithb7]

If you do decide to stay with 6V a simple 6V to 12V converter works great to run a modern stereo and iphone charger. 
 

https://www.amazon.com/Converter-5V-11V-Waterproof-Module-Transformer/dp/B0B1CVW5GP/ref=mp_s_a_1_9?crid=GU0N6Z92UCCD&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.G9g0AbApOZsfkd7KGDVFC1zkYe_uKnfVsCEEddfJrz7VQfG41r0xznMKN89VW_Cind6X-iE-YzsyjxUmWLTJeo5M-U0Yvv--cDUKYmYGkTOh8-QHK0P1iBhlWht3H-E2oS42Lz05Yjrz4Cpf2COxjtheKC8jd3qjvJX_b4FysusA8YLyckEpdU5fja00YwDZ9Yd9u-8usHzH5A38-DXfJQ.jjw1xEFS80mw_h6Knc7bjS-qMpjf9YitLt8pg53mtYM&dib_tag=se&keywords=6v+to+12v+step+up+converter&qid=1710089337&sprefix=6V+to+%2Caps%2C178&sr=8-9

 

I get-it if you want the whole system to be 12V. A nice little simple 12V alternator is pretty nice. 

Edited March 10 by keithb7

[Los_Control]

I will probably regret it. Yesterday I went to order the runtz from speedway. I actually need 2 of them. They wanted over $22 for shipping, would be $40 for 1 item.

So I searched Amazon for the same item and found these. ..... A 2 pack for $12.99 total was $21 with shipping.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08MZVXHP5?psc=1&smid=A1JX4L5CBS4J9K&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp

[SteveR]

49 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

My car was already changed to 12V when I got her. I did put in two transformers for the fuel sending and heater fan motor. My starter is the original and runs great on 12v

[Los_Control]

6 minutes ago, SteveR said:

My car was already changed to 12V when I got her. I did put in two transformers for the fuel sending and heater fan motor. My starter is the original and runs great on 12v

IMHO, Runtz is just a known name and respected everywhere .... I just did not like the shipping prices.

So I'm going with a unknown product for a cheaper price.

 

It is a really simple operation they do ..... maybe it will be fine. I have heard of others buying a few resistors and soldering them inline to do the same thing .... beyond my knowledge though.

[Sniper]

Runtz isn't a dropping resistor, more like a voltage regulator.

 

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/runtz-resistors-do-they-burn-out.948371/

 

Not sure where you ordered form, Speedway shows $12.40 for shipping, plus taxes of course.  Laughably enough, if you order from Speedway via Ebay, shipping is a bit cheaper

[DJK]

19 hours ago, keithb7 said:

If you do decide to stay with 6V a simple 6V to 12V converter works great to run a modern stereo and iphone charger. 
 

https://www.amazon.com/Converter-5V-11V-Waterproof-Module-Transformer/dp/B0B1CVW5GP/ref=mp_s_a_1_9?crid=GU0N6Z92UCCD&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.G9g0AbApOZsfkd7KGDVFC1zkYe_uKnfVsCEEddfJrz7VQfG41r0xznMKN89VW_Cind6X-iE-YzsyjxUmWLTJeo5M-U0Yvv--cDUKYmYGkTOh8-QHK0P1iBhlWht3H-E2oS42Lz05Yjrz4Cpf2COxjtheKC8jd3qjvJX_b4FysusA8YLyckEpdU5fja00YwDZ9Yd9u-8usHzH5A38-DXfJQ.jjw1xEFS80mw_h6Knc7bjS-qMpjf9YitLt8pg53mtYM&dib_tag=se&keywords=6v+to+12v+step+up+converter&qid=1710089337&sprefix=6V+to+%2Caps%2C178&sr=8-9

 

I get-it if you want the whole system to be 12V. A nice little simple 12V alternator is pretty nice. 

A 6v pos ground alternator is also readily available.

[Ivan_B]

On 3/10/2024 at 3:36 PM, Doug&Deb said:

I’m not trying to talk you out of converting to 12 volt but I’m wondering if getting everything working as designed first would help.

I am 😃

Any particular reason you want 12 volts? Just because "everyone does it" does not mean you have to. For example, I always wanted electronic ignition, the reason being - I did not know how to properly service the points. Once I got around to actually learning how it operates, I am totally converted. Absolutely no need to put one into a car that is running perfectly fine with the OEM setup.

On 3/10/2024 at 7:51 PM, keithb7 said:

If you do decide to stay with 6V a simple 6V to 12V converter works great to run a modern stereo and iphone charger. 

Or, you can simply get a 6 volt to USB converter for the iPhone and a proper adapter for the stereo (unless it is actually using 12 volts). I am running my AM transmitter and an MP3 player of a tiny 6 volt USB power supply.

[amp56]

On 3/9/2024 at 6:31 PM, Sniper said:

I did not have any ignition issues when I converted my 51 to 12 negative ground.  But I do run an electrical fuel pump either.  Since I don't know what pump you are running I can't say whether it's a wiring issue or the pump isn't compatible with negative ground.  Regardless, a 6v fuel pump will probably need changed to one designed to run on 12v.

 

I used the alternator and regulator setup from an 87 Dodge Diplomat,  here's how I mounted the alternator.

 

http://www.yourolddad.com/12-volt-conversion

 

You will need 12v bulbs, they do not care about polarity.  Unless you are running LEDs.

 

The heater fan needed addressed, my old one was falling apart so I found a 122 one that worked fine.

 

http://www.yourolddad.com/blower-motor

 

Wipers were an issue, not sure if those gold resistors work well or not.  I built a current limiter to handle that for me. 

 

My ignition is stock 51 Plymouth EXCEPT for the coil, ballast resistor and the starter relay.  I used the coil and ballast resistor from a later model 12v MoPar, such as my 65 Cuda.  I mimicked the ignition system of a 12v points type mopar  like my 65 Cuda.  In this setup 12v, in run, goes to one side of the ballast resistor and the other side goes to the coil positive terminal.  In start 12v needs to be fed directly to the positive terminal of the coil.  If you use the relay I linked it has a 4th terminal, labeled I that provides 12vv when in start, run a wire from there to ether the coil positive terminal or the coil side of the ballast connection.  If you use a coil that does not need a ballast resistor, like your link, then ignore any ballast mention in my write up.

 

 

[BGlenn]

So, I change the ground to negative and change to 12V, what do I do about the original radio?  I do not want to loose the original radio and may play it from time to time.  If I  install a 12 to 6V reducer and rewire the power and ground, will I cause any damage to my radio?  Will it still play?

[Los_Control]

I feel one of the advantages is to switch to negative ground along with 12 volts.

Nothing in your car cares about going to negative ground .... Except the radio!

As far as I know, there is no way to convert it to negative ground without sending it out to be refitted with modern guts inside .... so it looks original but is not.

 

Just because of the ground and all the electrics inside setup for positive ground, the 12>6 reducer on the power feed line will not be enough.