What Do You Think of These?

[Los_Control]

3 minutes ago, Ivan_B said:

Just curious, are there any disadvantages of LED lights, besides the cost? ?

Well I got to say I have been running fluorescent shop lights in my tiny garage/tool shed for 3 or 4 years.  I only had 2, 4' lights which equals 4, 4' bulbs.

 

In a 3 year time period I have bought 6 new bulbs to replace burned out bulbs.

I went to the hardware store last week and found out that January 2024 the fluorescent bulbs have been outlawed and we only have LED available for replacement.

So I chucked out my ballast and rewired my light fixtures and I find the difference is incredible .... Like night and day and the cost per bulb comparable.

 

Ivan if you need a appendix removed or tonsils .... let me know, get up on my work bench and we can get this done .... I certainly have the lighting for it ... there is a how to video on the internet for anything. ???

 

In a sense that was my whole point ..... I'm a old fart and have been satisfied with fluorescent for all these years. ..... Now I am forced to switch to LED, wished I would have done it sooner.

 

Same with the new solder .....If you can get the same job done with lower temperatures .... What is the actual draw back?

Adding higher heat to copper wires could add resistance?  ..... Heat can cause issues with any metal. It warps metal when welding .... Maybe you understand what I mean by heat causing damage to any metal.

 

Low heat soldering may need more testing, more refinement .... It might be the best thing since sliced bread or it might be a bust.

 

 

Damn you @JBNeal I keep laughing at the thought ...... I will leave it there

 

[kencombs]

I've seen these before and they seem to be OK.   But, I seldom splice, as I prefer the wire the correct length with  crimped uninsulated terminals then two layers of shrink.  One just covering the terminal and a smidgen of wire insulation, the second longer, further up the  wire.  IMO, that provides a little more protection against flex/bend fractures as well as moisture resistance.   If I must splice, it is the same process.   Never solder except in rare cases.  

 

My only potential issue the the all in one thing is a problem I've encountered occasionally with  older wire.   It just won't tin correctly, probably a thin corrosive film.  On solid wires, which I'd never use on a car, that is easy to correct.   But on multi-strand it is impossible to clean all of them.   I have also seen this a few times on new wire but I don't know why, but it just would not tin and bond correctly.   There doesn't seem to be any way to assure that doesn't happen with the all-in-one solution.  Might look OK from the outside but not really bonded.   Probably never be an issue with all new stuff of good quality though.

 

Lots of airplanes flying without a soldered joint.   A few in specific areas maybe, but looking a QEC packages used in engine changes, it's all quick connect plugs with crimped pin connections.   Same with aux power and air conditioning packs.   That's my rationale for using crimps almost exclusively, that and the fact that I've never had on fail.

 

But, one must buy quality parts and tools, no hardware store, stamped steel crimpers and no insulated terminals.   That last part is mostly me hating the look of a smashed piece of plastic on the end of one of my wires.

[Ivan_B]

2 hours ago, kencombs said:

That's my rationale for using crimps almost exclusively, that and the fact that I've never had on fail.

I've had, but I know nothing about the quality of workmanship and the materials used so it is unknown what was the cause.

I would probably advise against mimicking the mass manufacturing, mainly because their main priority is cost reduction, as much as possible. Same goes with all new inventions, unfortunately. I suspect that many new techniques and materials get a bad reputation not because of their inherent qualities but because they allow greater cost reduction (poorer product quality, but still functional). If a plane goes down, now and then, its not a big deal unless a) they can be proven to be at fault b) the risk and magnitude of consequences outweigh the savings, and c) they do not have other safeguards in place, such as regularly requiring to replace all these parts anyway.

[Los_Control]

2 hours ago, kencombs said:

My only potential issue the the all in one thing is a problem I've encountered occasionally with  older wire.   It just won't tin correctly, probably a thin corrosive film. 

Please @kencombs tell me this is not true.

 

While rewiring my truck I was kinda counting on using some pieces of my old wiring.

For example a few bullet connectors ..... The original connectors are fine, the wire looks good .... just the cloth covering has disintegrated.

 

So my plan was to cut the wire back to 2", solder new wire to the old original wire and shrink tube it. .... using the good original connectors.

 

What you are saying is, I will not be able to clean the old stranded wire good enough to reuse it.

Maybe I should make a new plan?

 

Just saying 95% of my wiring will be all new .... but I did think I would save some of the original connectors/terminals to make it easier then trying to find replacements.

Bullet connectors to be exact.

 

You think that is a bad idea @kencombs?

 

[Sam Buchanan]

39 minutes ago, Ivan_B said:

I've had, but I know nothing about the quality of workmanship and the materials used so it is unknown what was the cause.

I would probably advise against mimicking the mass manufacturing, mainly because their main priority is cost reduction, as much as possible. Same goes with all new inventions, unfortunately. I suspect that many new techniques and materials get a bad reputation not because of their inherent qualities but because they allow greater cost reduction (poorer product quality, but still functional). If a plane goes down, now and then, its not a big deal unless a) they can be proven to be at fault b) the risk and magnitude of consequences outweigh the savings, and c) they do not have other safeguards in place, such as regularly requiring to replace all these parts anyway.

Wow……………….

[kencombs]

1 hour ago, Ivan_B said:

I've had, but I know nothing about the quality of workmanship and the materials used so it is unknown what was the cause.

I would probably advise against mimicking the mass manufacturing, mainly because their main priority is cost reduction, as much as possible. Same goes with all new inventions, unfortunately. I suspect that many new techniques and materials get a bad reputation not because of their inherent qualities but because they allow greater cost reduction (poorer product quality, but still functional). If a plane goes down, now and then, its not a big deal unless a) they can be proven to be at fault b) the risk and magnitude of consequences outweigh the savings, and c) they do not have other safeguards in place, such as regularly requiring to replace all these parts anyway.

I can assure you that planes going down are a big deal.   Jobs are lost, people are prosecuted and airlines die along with the people.   Wiring is not a maintenance item, it is expected to last for the life of the airplane.  I spent a   l o n g  time working for an airline and AFAIK no aircraft failure has ever been attributed to a failed crimp connection.  Unlike cars, every aircraft accident is carefully examined and the cause ascertained.   If you knew the comparative cost of aircraft parts vs similar parts in another industry, that knowledge would dispel any questions about 'good enough'.   It has to be great, and provably so.

 

Just look at the attention Boeing is getting on a lost exit door opening plug.   They will loose millions, in direct cost associated with a full fleet inspection , lost sales, late deliveries etc,  and this is with no lives lost.  

 

There is a poster that appears in almost every aviation repair or maintenance facility I've seen.  This may not be an exact quote but really close;

 

Aviation is not in itself inherently dangerous,

but to an even greater extent than the sea,

it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect.

Edited January 26 by kencombs

[LazyK]

1 hour ago, Los_Control said:

Please @kencombs tell me this is not true.

 

While rewiring my truck I was kinda counting on using some pieces of my old wiring.

For example a few bullet connectors ..... The original connectors are fine, the wire looks good .... just the cloth covering has disintegrated.

 

So my plan was to cut the wire back to 2", solder new wire to the old original wire and shrink tube it. .... using the good original connectors.

 

What you are saying is, I will not be able to clean the old stranded wire good enough to reuse it.

Maybe I should make a new plan?

 

Just saying 95% of my wiring will be all new .... but I did think I would save some of the original connectors/terminals to make it easier then trying to find replacements.

Bullet connectors to be exact.

 

You think that is a bad idea @kencombs?

 

Copper oxidizes when exposed to air. Oxidized copper will not take solder. The rosin core(you do plan to use rosin core solder) in solder for electrical wire removes that oxidation, within reason. The old cloth wire in your truck has not blocked that air for the better part of 70 plus years.

Edited January 26 by LazyK

[kencombs]

Yep, and that is why most, if not all marine wiring is tinned during manufacture.  That blocks the oxidation.

 

My BIL has a machine shop and makes a lot of copper items for an oil field pump maker.   Everything is sent to zinc plate after fabrication, bus bars, etc. 

[Ivan_B]

10 minutes ago, kencombs said:

I can assure you that planes going down are a big deal.

Sure, and most of the crashes (if I recall correctly) are caused by the human factor, not the equipment. I am far away from the aviation industry, so maybe this was a bad example. Going back to cars, however, there are plenty of court cases (after people got injured or died), thought the years, revealing that manufacturers sometimes know about certain deadly defects in their products, etc., but choose to ignore the problems for cost-saving purposes. It's true that airplanes are probably a bit more regulated, though I was just making a point that cost reduction is a very important factor in mass production.

[kencombs]

5 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

This is correct. This reminds me of some 70-years old wires in a residential building, copper, tied together. There was a good ~2 inches of contact between them.

 

 

I had a business building built in 1917 and it originally had no electrical service but they had the foresight to bury IMC pipe in the concrete ceilings right along with the gas piping for the lights.   Somewhere around 1920 electricity was available and the pulled 14ga wire to all the lights.  The splices where all pigtailed/twisted over 3"!

Lasted until I bought it in '95.   Lots of corrosion due to water leaks but still worked.

[Los_Control]

Hrm, I do not want to overtake this thread.

Just thinking that my wires for my parking lights in the photo. ..... It is not a simple basic connection .... just crimp on a new end.

 

My thought is to cut it back 3" then add a new wire and solder, shrink tube it ...... Always something new to learn.

 

 

 

[Ivan_B]

Can't you make that contact (going to the bulb) disassembled some more and get a new wire in there?

[Los_Control]

Just thinking this is one of those areas where a new part is not available.

 

I can use all the pieces and recreate the connection. ..... The contact end will be creative   just seems easier to trim it back and add a new wire.

But if a old wire will not accept tinning .... I have more work to do .... I just thought this would be a easy fix ...... And now @kencombs going to rain on my parade .... sheesh!

[kencombs]

42 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

Just thinking this is one of those areas where a new part is not available.

 

I can use all the pieces and recreate the connection. ..... The contact end will be creative   just seems easier to trim it back and add a new wire.

But if an old wire will not accept tinning .... I have more work to do .... I just thought this would be an easy fix ...... And now @kencombs going to rain on my parade .... sheesh!

Perfect Place for a uninsulated splice covered with marine heat shrink.  It has a glue inside to seal out moisture.   Pick up an old Thomas and Betts crimper.  They do a great job and last forever.  
https://www.ebay.com/itm/305336060309?hash=item4717728995:g:oegAAOSwQmllkvom&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8Kn8CPX5zT3Tj7yQ4Ob4vBOiTFd48V%2FVxbyKSDwu%2Br4%2BOBngIo1xgNx4KvB06gXFqkkAhC9T99Qx2%2Fx6KFDxKHamSoccRl6b6ImrV5gBaD4dKsK9q3ARPZ3Qy7LpDwQm8nFx6Y%2Fjzf44hPuUdxKhLako1oTbeS%2B8ItaIAgxBx3UTggC1g5eIl91InjjTUapsbJz8UR1xLKS1yXeU75LPdeIWXZz%2BIrZQOtSXK1GVAgyBBWD4kU24dnNEKTXo2RTaSzSfedVq5OQvESY%2FKlQmAHa0jP4LTQ8wLrvgJWSYRn0pNAUVFS7MV6fl3CF2RMHw0w%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR8D52ruoYw

[Ivan_B]

2 hours ago, Los_Control said:

But if a old wire will not accept tinning ...

Use a tiny wire brush (the ones made for dremels) to clean it, laying on a flat surface. It will be good as new

[Sniper]

On 1/25/2024 at 8:19 PM, Los_Control said:

Just thinking this is one of those areas where a new part is not available.

 

Actually, you can get new contacts, did that when I rewired my 51.  Hey, if/when you get around to wanting to rewire your truck, give me a shout.  I'd be happy to spend a day or three helping you out and BS'ing. 

[Los_Control]

On 1/26/2024 at 8:32 PM, Sniper said:

Hey, if/when you get around to wanting to rewire your truck, give me a shout.  I'd be happy to spend a day or three helping you out and BS'ing. 

Sounds great. Between dealing with the BIL and weather I have not been getting much done. Am out in the shop today working some.

 

We live close enough we should get together & BS 

I would really appreciate your  opinion on my choices. Not really happy with the wiring harness I bought .... was thinking to use it to build one from scratch.

I sure could use a second opinion on it ..... Starting to wonder if it is the best decision. I have several other Ideas I would like to have your opinion on.

Just saying your advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

As far as working .... I would not stop you, I just feel guilty because I work 15-20 minute then sit down for 1/2 hour, then get back at it ..... I'm slow and thats just the way it is

 

[Sniper]

Not a problem I ain't doing it for a living so I'm not under any kind of time pressure to get it done quick. When I rewired my Plymouth I spent the whole weekend doing it 24 hours but that was because I wanted to get it inspected so I could drive it.

[Eneto-55]

On 1/25/2024 at 7:38 PM, Los_Control said:

While rewiring my truck I was kinda counting on using some pieces of my old wiring.

For example a few bullet connectors ..... The original connectors are fine, the wire looks good .... just the cloth covering has disintegrated.

 

So my plan was to cut the wire back to 2", solder new wire to the old original wire and shrink tube it. .... using the good original connectors.

 

What you are saying is, I will not be able to clean the old stranded wire good enough to reuse it.

Maybe I should make a new plan?

 

Just saying 95% of my wiring will be all new .... but I did think I would save some of the original connectors/terminals to make it easier then trying to find replacements.

Bullet connectors to be exact.

 

We used to clean up pennies with a vinegar and salt mixture - wonder if that would work to clean the corrosion off of old stranded wire.  Obviously, a person would need to get something else on it right away, but am I way out in left field?  (Hadn't though of this until reading this thread, just now.  Probably a hair-brained idea.)

Edited January 31 by Eneto-55

[Los_Control]

1 hour ago, Eneto-55 said:

We used to clean up pennies with a vinegar and salt mixture - wonder if that would work to clean the corrosion off of old stranded wire.  Obviously, a person would need to get something else on it right away, but am I way out in left field?  (Hadn't though of this until reading this thread, just now.  Probably a hair-brained idea.)

I would say you are fair in suggesting this.

I have tried to solder dirty wire in the past .... simply like trying to weld dirty metal .... it sucks and will get lots of failures while trying to stick 2 metals together.

You will get it eventually with lots of work.

 

I imagine soldering is like welding, the cleaner you get it the easier/better it will accept the new solder.

I really only have 3 or 4 areas where I would want to try this. ..... I have new pigtails for the headlights, I have new tail lights.

To solder 4 troublesome wires is not worth ordering a whole box full of connectors I will never use.

A mild acidic solution may be ideal to remove corrosion from stranded wire.

[Sniper]

The problem is neutralizing the acidic solution so that it doesn't cause problems in the future. I used to use vinegar to clean up the terminals on bulkhead connectors on my muscle car era mopars. But I would dunk them in a baking soda solution when I was done cleaning them to neutralize the acid

[TodFitch]

Aside from the issue of cleaning up an old wire well enough that solder will flow on it there is the issue of metal fatigue. The wires in our old car have spent decades being vibrated and in many cases not ideally secured. The end result is that there will be work hardening on the copper strands which will eventually lead to wires failing.

 

I am not against repairs in small areas to get a vehicle back in service. But I strongly suggest that a wholesale replacement of the wiring harness(es) in an antique vehicle is a good idea if you want it to be reliable.