Heater Temp.

[uncleaud]

Been driving and enjoying my 47 Saratoga. The last few days have been chilly enough to want to use the heater. Everything has been cleaned and freed up. The water temp runs between 160 and 180, heater fan works fine but the air coming from the heater is barely warm, no where warm enough to raise temp in the car or defrost any windows.  Is that normal for these cars or is there something I have missed.

[Veemoney]

Not sure of your set-up but on my truck there is a valve under the hood to allow water to go through the heater. I usually flip it to on when the weather turns cold.

[Sniper]

When I first got my 72 Dart I had that issue when the first cold spell hit, such as it was in San Diego.  Turns out the heater got used so rarely that the core was mostly plugged up.  Removed the heater hoses and used a garden hose to flush back and forth several times till the water ran clear, both ways.  Great heat after that.  Which reminds me, my 51 has the same issue,

[Ivan_B]

1) check the heater valve to make sure it is open

2) check the heater hoses, do they get warm?

3) check the heater core, it should be as hot as the radiator

 

If the heater core is not warming up, the coolant is likely not flowing through it.

 

1 hour ago, Sniper said:

Which reminds me, my 51 has the same issue,

My core is open all the time and it gets so hot that i feel it with natural aspiration while driving... I should really close that valve, do not need the heater on Florida ?

Edited November 10, 2023 by Ivan_B

[Bryan G]

Have you been inside the heater box? I'm not familiar with the '47; on my car, it wasn't too difficult to take apart. There were some holes rusted through, and the doors weren't working right. I actually have the opposite problem: I can't turn the heat all the way off. I suspect I don't have something adjusted just right.

[soth122003]

5 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

My core is open all the time and it gets so hot that i feel it with natural aspiration while driving... I should really close that valve, do not need the heater on Florida

My core is open all the time as well, but if I close of all the doors on the heater and open the hood scoop a bit it is very comfortable while driving. 

 

Speak for yourself Ivan. The panhandle isn't as warm as it is down in your neck of the woods. As I get older the colder weather bothers me more. If it gets below 70 outside I like the heat on.. in the car and the house. 

 

Joe Lee

[plymouthcranbrook]

As with most of us I suspect I rarely drive my 52 in cooler weather and never In really cold stuff but on the occasions I do use the heater it works well enough to keep me comfortable when the outside air is in the upper 40’s.  I had the radiator and core checked and repaired about 20 years ago and other than the occasional antifreeze change have just driven it.  And of course adding the new 57 Chevy heater control valve?

Edited November 10, 2023 by plymouthcranbrook

[Ivan_B]

10 hours ago, soth122003 said:

As I get older the colder weather bothers me more.

Joe, we are exactly on the same longitude, so these are probably just the old bones talking ?

 

12 hours ago, Bryan G said:

I can't turn the heat all the way off. I suspect I don't have something adjusted just right.

Do you have the manual valve, or a more sophisticated setup with remote control? If the valve is not closing completely, the coolant will continue circulating through the core keeping you warm. The old-style valve on the engine is very easy to replace.

[Sam Buchanan]

1 hour ago, Ivan_B said:

 

 

Do you have the manual valve, or a more sophisticated setup with remote control? If the valve is not closing completely, the coolant will continue circulating through the core keeping you warm. The old-style valve on the engine is very easy to replace.

 

Not easy to replace when it has seized in the head like the one on my P15. Fortunately it is stuck "open" so all I had to do was install an inline valve in one of the heater hoses, didn't want to risk breaking off the old valve in the head. It is a manual valve, I open it late fall and close it late spring. The under-dash dealer-installed heater in my car is very effective, the fan still works nicely.

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Sam Buchanan

[uncleaud]

18 hours ago, soth122003 said:

My core is open all the time and it gets so hot that i feel it with natural aspiration while driving... I should really close that valve, do not need the heater on Florida

My core was like this earlier when it was warmer and not needed? My temp valve is new and working freely, water level appears to be up in the radiator. Was curious if there was ever a problem with an air lock?

[Los_Control]

Without knowing your location, cooler temps means different things to different people. .... Today is 60 degrees out and I needed a jacket to drive to the store  ?

 

I find when everything is in proper working order, these engines run cool. I ran my engine for a bit in the driveway and it never really got up to a good running temp with no T-stat installed. Then when I installed a 180 T-stat it runs right at 180. ..... If you are running in cool temps it may never get as warm as it should be.

 

It was common in the old days to run a summer or winter T-stat depending on the season.

Was also a known trick to put cardboard in front of the radiators to block airflow and raise the coolant temps to get the heater to work better.

I remember hearing stories about truckers installing a roll up window shade in front of the radiator then just lower or raise it as the weather changed.

 

Modern cars have pressurized cooling systems and run coolant at a higher temperature. The higher the pressure the higher the boiling point of coolant.

Just saying modern cars are different because of a pressurized system and no longer have this issue.

[Sniper]

6 minutes ago, Los_Control said:

Was also a known trick to put cardboard in front of the radiators to block airflow and raise the coolant temps to get the heater to work better.

 

I remember years ago I was driving my 86 Daytona thru Colorado in the winter. this was in January of 86.  It was so cold I got no heat out of the heater and my windshield was frosted up  Had to root around in a dumpster for some cardboard to block the radiator to get heat, it worked. 

[Los_Control]

Several years ago I had a Ford 1 ton work van. Wife & I drove it from Seattle to New Mexico .... we had it about 15 years. The heater worked awesome and always kept the front 2 passengers so warm we had to turn the heat way down and it kept the windows clear also. It was a awesome heater.

 

One year it started leaking and I replaced the old brass heater core with the modern aluminum replacement ...... That heater just sucked after that .... It never warmed up enough to keep us warm .... I'm sure the windows would be a issue in the right weather.

I remember thinking about a possible air pocket, I switched the heater hoses around just in case I installed them backwards, I put in a new T-stat thinking it might be bad .... I tried everything I could and nothing helped.

 

My final take away was aluminum heater cores suck .... maybe different manufacturer & quality is the problem .... I do not know.

 

Question to @uncleaud Do you have a modern replacement heater core?

 

 

[Ivan_B]

9 hours ago, Sam Buchanan said:

Fortunately it is stuck "open" so all I had to do was install an inline valve in one of the heater hoses, didn't want to risk breaking off the old valve in the head.

I like your insulated valve... I've seen a plumbing ball valve installed on a heater hose on one of the cars I looked at, that was ugly. If the original valve is stuck, can't you just drill it out and then re-tap? Although, I am sure as soon as you cut it off and split the remaining "ring", on the inside, it will probably just come out. It will take you a day, if you are slow and careful, but it should work well.

Some one was asking about them winter projects, in a different thread, and this one sounds like yours

 

2 hours ago, uncleaud said:

My temp valve is new and working freely, water level appears to be up in the radiator. Was curious if there was ever a problem with an air lock?

Not likely, as long as everything is hooked-up correctly. I suppose the heater core is not getting warm? Is the valve warm? How about the hose after the valve? If you think the core can be plugged up, you can quickly disconnect the heater hoses under the hood (get a bucket, it will leak) and blow some water from a garden hose through the core to see if it flows through nicely.

 

2 hours ago, Los_Control said:

no T-stat installed.

Not a good idea on a bypass system, they said so in the 1947 Chrysler Master Tech film. But yes, 180 is the correct running temp.

 

2 hours ago, Los_Control said:

Was also a known trick to put cardboard in front of the radiators to block airflow and raise the coolant temps to get the heater to work better.

Some cars had metal "blinds" in front of the radiator, from the factory, exactly for this. When the air is cold, you close the blinds to keep the air from cooling down the radiator.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Ivan_B

[rcl700]

On the topic of heat. I found pipes under the dash pointing to the windshield and exit pipes on the left and right of the heater. There is  not any ducting connecting them together. Should this be some type of flex piping? Is it made of plastic or metal? The exit pipe on the right side seems close to the passenger kick panel, and both are very close to the firewall. 

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by rcl700

[Ivan_B]

Yes, there are rubber flex-pipes connect the heater to these ducts. If your heater is original to the car, the rubber might've deteriorated, or someone took it off for some reason and never put it back. Should be something like that:

 

My car is probably way older, so it would not be helpful. Ask someone with a 48 to take a picture if you want to see what these looked like exactly.

[Sniper]

Parts stores used to carry them, might still.  They are called defroster hoses.  Measure the diameter of your pipes and buy a new set.

 

https://www.rockauto.com/en/tools/hoses/lines+&+clamps,defroster+hose,defroster+hose,308

[Sam Buchanan]

3 hours ago, Ivan_B said:

I like your insulated valve... I've seen a plumbing ball valve installed on a heater hose on one of the cars I looked at, that was ugly. If the original valve is stuck, can't you just drill it out and then re-tap? Although, I am sure as soon as you cut it off and split the remaining "ring", on the inside, it will probably just come out. It will take you a day, if you are slow and careful, but it should work well.

Some one was asking about them winter projects, in a different thread, and this one sounds like yours

 

The valve isn't insulated, I put some fuel hose on the handle so it won't hurt my fingers as much when I turn it, it is quite stiff to turn.

 

No way am I going to tempt fate by unnecessarily  breaking off the old valve in the head, then messing up the threads, then having to remove the head from a low-mileage, perfectly running engine, then, whatever. There are winter projects and there are fool's errands.......

 

With three vintage cars (and an airplane) I keep in daily driver condition there are plenty of maintenance jobs to keep me busy, currently in the process of putting a new exhaust on the TR6 after installing new differential, driveshaft and axles.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Sam Buchanan

[Jerry Roberts]

The cover that goes over the grill to restrict air flow is called  a ' Winter Front '  . One member who made a winter trip to Alaska had one on his car . 

[rcl700]

46 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Parts stores used to carry them, might still.  They are called defroster hoses.  Measure the diameter of your pipes and buy a new set.

 

https://www.rockauto.com/en/tools/hoses/lines+&+clamps,defroster+hose,defroster+hose,308

Thank you Sir. 

My apologies for hijacking this topic. 

[Sniper]

7 hours ago, rcl700 said:

My apologies for hijacking this topic.

 

Not sure it's a hijack, it is heater related.  But good luck getting it working properly, again

[uncleaud]

Problem Solved!! The older I get the more problems I solve in the middle of the night when I should be sleeping. Usually they aren't particularly difficult, but the results of stupid mistakes that I finally remember!

 

I originally had the typical rabbit ear water valve valve and as usual it was seized and not working. I removed it from the head and replaced it with fittings to replace valve. I used an inline valve and was so proud how neat and clean it looked and worked. Cable worked free and smooth better than before. 

 

I'm sure you can all see it coming,?when I pulled the cable out to increase the heat I was actually shutting it off instead of on.

Sorry for taking everybody's time. I'll mark this solved!!

[greg g]

The heater in our coupe will drive you out of the car.  It has the manual flaps directing the air out, toward  the foot wells, even with the 170 degree op temp, it does a good job.  On defrost, not so much.  It just blows the moist interior air back onto the windshield.   You need to open the cowl vent to get any defrost.  Which is kind of self defeating.

[Ivan_B]

5 hours ago, greg g said:

You need to open the cowl vent to get any defrost.  Which is kind of self defeating.

Not necessarily. The defrost is just warming up the glass so that it thaws. Defogging is a bid different function

Also, having a cold/fresh air intake into the cabin is usually a good idea to keep the driver awake so it's a safety feature. I had an old Saab C900, a while back, and thought that something was wrong with my vacuum heater distribution because the center vent was always cold. When I finally read the manual, found out that this is actually a cold air intake. Later, I saw exactly the same setup on some other vehicles.

[greg g]

OK,  while I appreciate your point, I notice your location is Florida.  I live just outside the snowiest city in the lower 48.  I believe I know how good defroster function when I see it.  The model 36 heater in my 46 coupe is not the model to follow.  I have relatives who come up for the holidays who drive around in rental cars and complain that the windows are all steamed up all the time.  I tell them to push this button so the light is off when driving.  Please take this in the manner it was intended. 

 

Edited November 16, 2023 by greg g