I'm mangling rear axle seals...

[Art Bailey]

Hi-

 

I'm rebuilding the rear axle in my '48 DeSoto, and attempting to install new inner seals. I'm up to two mangled seals. I'm using a piece of black pipe as a driver, as close to the o.d. of the seal as I could find, and I'm using very judiciously applied taps from a hammer. I had better luck on the second try, but I still managed to deform it slightly. I don't want to find out it leaks later, and have to dig it out again.

 

Dodgeb4ya (can't message directly, hope he sees this) posted a pic of a rear seal, installed, in this post: 

https://p15-d24.com/topic/51665-rear-axle-bearing/

 

In his pic, it would appear that the cupped side of the seal is facing out, the opposite of what I'd expect. However, it'd seem I'd have a fighting chance of getting the seal to drive in without collapsing if I did it this way, with the lip facing out. My question is, is there any reason I wouldn't want to put the seal in this way? 

 

Thinking out loud here, maybe if I shaped a brass drift to a profile like a concave wood gouge, I could be sure I was touching only on the very perimeter of the seal. 

 

The original seal, Victor 49143, is much more robust looking, solid on all three sides, and looks like it'd stand up to some taps from a driver. The new seal is pretty flimsy.

 

Unfortunately, I don't have the Miller tool, and not seeing the Miller C-413 on ebay at the moment.

 

 

 

Thanks,

Art

Edited September 3, 2022 by ratbailey

[DJK]

I have had better luck with modern replacement seals instead of NOS seals, a proper driver is critical.

[Merle Coggins]

The lip must face inwards, as it seals the oil within the the axle housing. I believe what you are seeing in the post you linked is the outer metal housing of the seal that he was using. 

As for your seal driver, you may want to fabricate a flat plat on the end of it. A good seal driver is flat on the end to provide a solid surface to press against the seal body. By just using a pipe it is hard to spread the load out over the entire surface,  especially when you can only strike your hammer on one spot around the perimeter. 

Most times when I don’t have the proper seal driver I use a blunt tool such as a brass drift, I also have some steel drifts. If  have to use a punch I find one with a larger blunt end. I then use gentle taps with the hammer working around the perimeter of the seal until it’s seated. 

 

[Art Bailey]

10 minutes ago, Merle Coggins said:

The lip must face inwards, as it seals the oil within the the axle housing. I believe what you are seeing in the post you linked is the outer metal housing of the seal that he was using. 

As for your seal driver, you may want to fabricate a flat plat on the end of it. A good seal driver is flat on the end to provide a solid surface to press against the seal body. By just using a pipe it is hard to spread the load out over the entire surface,  especially when you can only strike your hammer on one spot around the perimeter. 

Most times when I don’t have the proper seal driver I use a blunt tool such as a brass drift, I also have some steel drifts. If  have to use a punch I find one with a larger blunt end. I then use gentle taps with the hammer working around the perimeter of the seal until it’s seated. 

 

Thanks, Merle. I think this might be the kick in the butt to get my lathe up and running, it'd be easy to fab up something that'd do the job. Or, an excuse to make the drive to the metal wholesale place, and pick up a big hunk of round stock.

 

So, it sounds like your big drift is big enough to cover the front area of the seal, from the outside edge to the outside edge where the hole begins, and not under that size (if that makes sense). If that's the case, I have a hunk of 3/4" shaft that might do the trick. I used a drift the first time, but it was maybe 3/8", too small, causing the seal to collapse inward. I'll learn to be a decent mechanic yet ?

 

 

[Merle Coggins]

You can angle the drift to focus the impact towards the outer rim to help avoid damage to the center area. 

[chris 48 P15]

i used 1/2 drive socket to drive the seals in with some success

i have large enough sockets to cover seal 

 

[DJK]

this is from Harbor Freight

[Art Bailey]

49 minutes ago, DJK said:

this is from Harbor Freight

That's cool! People malign HF, but geez, they really are the go-to place for cheap solutions, and the quality of their tools is not bad at all. Unfortunately, the smallest driver in this set is too large for the seal. I've got plans to fab up something just like this with some random junk around the shop, hopefully after I fulfill all my honey-dos this afternoon. It's really tempting to lay down the 100 bucks just to buy the handle in this set, and save myself the cutting, drilling and tapping, but I think I'm too cheap. 

Edited September 4, 2022 by ratbailey

[Sniper]

This one ought to cover it

 

https://www.amazon.com/Bushing-Transmission-Bearing-Installer-Remover/dp/B08954GW18/ref=sr_1_8?crid=1HM070HXVT519&keywords=seal%2Binstaller%2Bkit&qid=1662300674&sprefix=seal%2Binstall%2Caps%2C1156&sr=8-8&th=1

[Art Bailey]

5 minutes ago, Sniper said:

This one ought to cover it

 

https://www.amazon.com/Bushing-Transmission-Bearing-Installer-Remover/dp/B08954GW18/ref=sr_1_8?crid=1HM070HXVT519&keywords=seal%2Binstaller%2Bkit&qid=1662300674&sprefix=seal%2Binstall%2Caps%2C1156&sr=8-8&th=1

Ah crap, I was all fired up to make a tool and prove my worth ? This does cover it, thanks, Sniper...can't pass this up.

[kencombs]

8 hours ago, chris 48 P15 said:

i used 1/2 drive socket to drive the seals in with some success

i have large enough sockets to cover seal 

 

I have a set of 3/4" sockets.   Now mostly used like that or as tooling in the shop press.. they fit more big things

[chris 48 P15]

pick a size any size 

yes nice set not bad price either

[Dodgeb4ya]

The seal lip always faces the oil side.

My picture above is installed with the lip facing inwards towards the diff...oil side.

That nosr seal is made of thick steel.

It will not deform easily like thin modern replacements.

To install the new thin sheet metal seals it's critical the driver is completely flat and the same diameter as the seal less a few thousands.

Careful tapping to drive the seal in.

The seal face cannot deform at all or will most likely leak.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Dodgeb4ya
Spell check

[desoto1939]

The Miller c413 tool is used to drive into the axle differential housing the outer bearing race and not the seal.  I have the c 413 tool.

This was taken from my Miller Tool presentation that I did at the National Desoto Convention this past June.

 

I live near alley forge pa.

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto199@aol.com 

 

 

 

[DonaldSmith]

You  want to go from "Mangling" to "Managing"  Good luck. 

[Art Bailey]

5 hours ago, DonaldSmith said:

You  want to go from "Mangling" to "Managing"  Good luck. 

Art Bailey, Rear Axle Seal Manager. The pay's not so good ?

Edited September 5, 2022 by ratbailey

[SteveR]

The key in using a hammer is light taps of the hammer in a circle or in a start shape with CONSTANT watching the seal. Most time I find one side will go in easier than another. It must go in equally. Good luck ?

[SteveR]

7 hours ago, SteveR said:

The key in using a hammer is light taps of the hammer in a circle or in a start shape with CONSTANT watching the seal. Most time I find one side will go in easier than another. It must go in equally. Good luck

I meant to say +STAR* shape

[capt den]

you are braver than me. i want to do mine but afraid it may be beyond my capability. have no problem now, just a job i would love to master. i have the factory manual but no seal drivers. not sure if i could shim it properly. anyway, i need to do the front brakes first. them i can do, and i now have the tool from keith to get them adjusted properly. if i had to do the rear seals i would figure it out.   capt den

[Art Bailey]

1 hour ago, capt den said:

you are braver than me. i want to do mine but afraid it may be beyond my capability. have no problem now, just a job i would love to master. i have the factory manual but no seal drivers. not sure if i could shim it properly. anyway, i need to do the front brakes first. them i can do, and i now have the tool from keith to get them adjusted properly. if i had to do the rear seals i would figure it out.   capt den

I don't know about being brave, but I love slogging through a challenge and picking up some new skills. It's also a heck of a lot more fun working on a vehicle I'm not obligated to have back on the road by 7am tomorrow. Shimming it doesn't look like too big a deal. I bought a bunch of shim material from McMaster Carr to make some if necessary. There's some good info right here on this site on the subject. I'm very glad I dug into the job, the right rear bearing was spun, I'm sure it would've been no fun to find that out on a road trip.

 

The mailman just delivered the seal driver to me, it's perfect, really well finished and well made. 60 bucks well spent, and covers every possible size from tiny up to almost 2". I'll post pics when I get them in---I probably won't be able to resist getting them in tonight.

[Art Bailey]

Welp, that was easy. Right tool for the job...where have I heard that before?

 

The mailman delivered the seal driver kit that Sniper recommended (thanks, man). It's niiiice. Precision made, nice finish. Took me a minute to realize that two discs could be stacked...

 

supporting and centering the seal perfectly, like so: 

 

 

Yank out the old one...

 

 

Gently bash in the new one...never having done this before (correctly, that is) I was overly cautious about when to stop. I used the depth gauge on my vernier caliper to try to figure out when it was most of the way in, but it turns out that the larger disc will be flush with the rim when it's all the way in. Also, the sound changes...you can pretty much tell when you need to stop and you've bottomed out. And finally, you can stick a finger in there and feel when the two edges meet. 

 

aaaaand, yer done. 

 

Two seals in, less than 45 minutes. I'm now a reformed seal mangler, ready to re-enter society. Thanks everyone, for all the advice! Seriously, I wouldn't have known how to pull this off otherwise. 

 

-Art

[Sniper]

Now I gotta buy the kit I recommended, lol.

[SteveR]

I need the $60 first + the $30 for shipping to England...?☹️!

[LeRoy]

11 hours ago, ratbailey said:

Welp, that was easy. Right tool for the job...where have I heard that before?

 

Two seals in, less than 45 minutes. I'm now a reformed seal mangler, ready to re-enter society. Thanks everyone, for all the advice! Seriously, I wouldn't have known how to pull this off otherwise. 

 

-Art

Heya Art

I went through a similar exercise a few weeks ago, my problem was the new seals were too large. When crossing from the old to new style there was a small measuring error.... In any case I'm all back together and so far no leaks. I do have a new clunk, it sounds like a dead body rolling around in the trunk when I corner, I adjusted end play to .012 by adding several shims but since reassembly things must have loosened up a bit. I guess I need to remeasure and possibly remove a couple of shims. 

[DJK]

11 hours ago, Sniper said:

Now I gotta buy the kit I recommended, lol.

you the man Sniper!!!!